# Democrats only: who do you want to win the GOP nom and why? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 5, 2016, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-only-who-do-you-want-to-win-the-gop-nom-and-why/742196 "2016-01-05T03:23:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2016, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-only-who-do-you-want-to-win-the-gop-nom-and-why/742196/41 "2016-01-05T22:59:23Z")
> [@Icarus](#): > > IMHO he could have just as easily decided to run as a democrat. I really don’t think he believes half of what he says . . . I find myself wondering whether he **hears** half of what he says. ---
**Author:** ![harmonicamoon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/65b543/32.png) [@harmonicamoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/harmonicamoon)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2016, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-only-who-do-you-want-to-win-the-gop-nom-and-why/742196/42 "2016-01-05T23:37:04Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > But if we go into recession this year, the theory of fundamentals says that a Republican is going to win, full stop. Is this theory is true, all the bad guys need to do is create a recession. But they couldn’t do that would they? ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2016, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-only-who-do-you-want-to-win-the-gop-nom-and-why/742196/43 "2016-01-06T02:17:21Z")
I want Carly Fiorina to win the GOP nominee because there’s no way in hell she’ll ever win. I see her as having less of a chance than any of the guys who already dropped out, though its pretty close ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2016, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-only-who-do-you-want-to-win-the-gop-nom-and-why/742196/44 "2016-01-10T12:13:19Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > If you believe the theory that elections are mainly won or lost on the fundamentals, with candidate quality only accounting for a few points, then you only want Trump to be the nominee if you think the race will be close and that Trump will swing it to Clinton where otherwise she might lose. Not me. I know it’s going to be won by the Democratic Party’s nominee (probably HRC) no matter who the Republican is. I just want Trump as that nominee because I see him as having the longest coattails, with which to bring the Republican Party crashing to hell where they belong. My desiderata is a Democrat holding the Speaker’s gavel, and another one as Senate majority leader, all listening to a Democratic president givinng the SOTU address in 2017. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2016, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-only-who-do-you-want-to-win-the-gop-nom-and-why/742196/45 "2016-01-10T13:31:13Z")
Ideally you’d also want to add either a supermajority of 60 in the Senate, or party leadership with the balls to do away with that stupid and undemocratic requirement. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2016, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-only-who-do-you-want-to-win-the-gop-nom-and-why/742196/46 "2016-01-10T14:37:16Z")
Well, sure, if I find Aladdin’s lamp, that will go on the list, right after the pony. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-only-who-do-you-want-to-win-the-gop-nom-and-why/742196/47 "2016-01-11T18:30:12Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > For the good of the country, I’d love to see the GOP get away from the mindset of “we’d win if only we’d nominate a REAL conservative.” I’d be delighted if they ran the most real conservative they can find and get it out of their system once and for all. This. They need another Barry Goldwater moment. I think Ted Cruz would be the best candidate for this purpose. He is about as competent and radical as they come. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-only-who-do-you-want-to-win-the-gop-nom-and-why/742196/48 "2016-01-11T19:29:44Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > They need another Barry Goldwater moment. Which leads to Nixon winning. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-only-who-do-you-want-to-win-the-gop-nom-and-why/742196/49 "2016-01-11T19:32:44Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [Sean Illing writes](http://www.salon.com/2016/01/04/ok_now_its_getting_really_intense_where_we_stand_on_the_ever_changing_always_crazy_presidential_races/) that it is now down to Trump, Cruz and Rubio – none of the rest have a chance. Of those three I’d pick Rubio – the hardest to beat in November, but the easiest to live with if he wins, and reassuring proof, if he gets the nom, that the GOP has not quite gone completely and incurably insane just yet. Given the poll numbers for Trump and Cruz, the body of the GOP has gone insane. The adults in Washington maybe not, but no one is listening to them. Not one senator or governor has endorsed Cruz. I assume none have endorsed Trump. Jeb! would be the best president from the lot, with the best access to sane advisers. Trump as a 3rd party candidate no matter who gets nominated is optimal, of course. But Trump by himself will probably tip a lot of Senate races to the Democrats. So my answer depends on how insecure I’m feeling. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-only-who-do-you-want-to-win-the-gop-nom-and-why/742196/50 "2016-01-11T21:01:55Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Given the poll numbers for Trump and Cruz, the body of the GOP has gone insane. The adults in Washington maybe not, but no one is listening to them. > Not one senator or governor has endorsed Cruz. I assume none have endorsed Trump. > > Jeb! would be the best president from the lot, with the best access to sane advisers. Trump as a 3rd party candidate no matter who gets nominated is optimal, of course. But Trump by himself will probably tip a lot of Senate races to the Democrats. > So my answer depends on how insecure I’m feeling. I disagree, in part, with this post and the one it quotes. Kasich, Christie or possibly even Fiorina, Huckabee or Santorum would be the best of the lot, in the hope they attract competent advisors. Jeb! has already announced he’s going with the same neocons, con-men, and idealogues who screwed up his brother’s Administration. Among Rubio, Trump and Cruz, it’s hard to decide who would be the worst President but those taking a sanguine view of Rubio confuse me: [ul][li] If elected he would be younger than any President except Teddy Roosevelt and JFK. Those who think he’d make a good President (I don’t) should want him to first build up expertise, perhaps serve as V.P.[/li][li] Rubio would be one of the least qualified Presidents ever. He’s been a legislator for 14 years. Period. (Obama had only 12 years, JFK 14 years, but each had levels of charisma and vision that Rubio lacks.[/li][li] Lacking any relevant experience in economics or foreign affairs, Rubio is a blank slate. What Tom, Dick, and Devilry can we look forward to as Rubio’s key advisors?[/li][li] Obama’s resume, however limited, included a few jaunts and a spell as Law Review editor. JFK was a war hero. Rubio is only noted for lying, and propping his drug dealer brother-in-law.[/li][li] Idealogically, Obama and JFK were fairly progressive. Even Jeb! or Kasich would be pragmatic. Rubio is a puppet of the Koch Brothers and the Tea Party, each partisan lurch worse than the last.[/li][/ul] I don’t think either Trump or Carson is planning to win the White House, but if they did I think they’d cough up at least enough sincerity to permit progress. Cruz is intelligent enough to at least understand the issues and argue with his advisors, however twisted his idealogy might be. Rubio would be a Zero. TL;DR: _ **I cannot condone the sanguinity with which some Dopers embrace a possible Rubio Presidency.** _ ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-only-who-do-you-want-to-win-the-gop-nom-and-why/742196/51 "2016-01-11T21:09:32Z")
I’d prefer Rubio, who doesn’t care, to Cruz, who does. But I don’t want either. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-only-who-do-you-want-to-win-the-gop-nom-and-why/742196/52 "2016-01-11T21:33:26Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > TL;DR: _ **I cannot condone the sanguinity with which some Dopers embrace a possible Rubio Presidency.** _ Well, only in the lesser-evil sense – i.e., compared to Trump or Cruz. Cruz might be smarter, [but he’s also systematically delusional](http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/ted-cruz-isnt-idiot-hes-delusional-and-thats-far-more-dangerous), or else so cynical he panders to the delusional as if he were so himself. And Trump is, well, Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-only-who-do-you-want-to-win-the-gop-nom-and-why/742196/53 "2016-01-12T06:42:10Z")
> [@OneCentStamp](#): > > Worst for me would be Rubio or Cruz. Whatever may lie beneath, they both have the veneer of reason and sanity. > > If the Republicans win the 2016 election, at the very least I want them to double down and vote in an obvious maniac and/or idiot. > > And oddly enough, I think Trump, of all the remaining viable candidates, would probably be the most reasonable and tractable once in office. Just for example, I can’t imagine a Senator Trump threatening government shutdown over the budget, which several of his opponents and fellow party have shown themselves amply willing to do. By “several” do you mean “literally every one of them”? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-only-who-do-you-want-to-win-the-gop-nom-and-why/742196/54 "2016-01-12T15:43:39Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > Which leads to Nixon winning. Who is Nixon in this scenario? Dan Quayle? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-only-who-do-you-want-to-win-the-gop-nom-and-why/742196/55 "2016-01-12T15:50:18Z")
I’m not a fan of Rubio but I don’t think your criticisms are fair. [quote=“septimus, post:50, topic:742196”] I disagree, in part, with this post and the one it quotes. Kasich, Christie or possibly even Fiorina, Huckabee or Santorum would be the best of the lot, in the hope they attract competent advisors. Jeb! has already announced he’s going with the same neocons, con-men, and idealogues who screwed up his brother’s Administration. Among Rubio, Trump and Cruz, it’s hard to decide who would be the worst President but those taking a sanguine view of Rubio confuse me: [ul][li] If elected he would be younger than any President except Teddy Roosevelt and JFK. Those who think he’d make a good President (I don’t) should want him to first build up expertise, perhaps serve as V.P.[/li][li] Rubio would be one of the least qualified Presidents ever. He’s been a legislator for 14 years. Period. (Obama had only 12 years, JFK 14 years, but each had levels of charisma and vision that Rubio lacks.[/li][/quote] So Obama and JFK get a pass on less experience because you like them better? [quote] [li] Lacking any relevant experience in economics or foreign affairs, Rubio is a blank slate. What Tom, Dick, and Devilry can we look forward to as Rubio’s key advisors?[/li][/quote] How much experience in foreign affairs did Obama have? How much do Trump and Cruz have? [quote] [li] Obama’s resume, however limited, included a few jaunts and a spell as Law Review editor. JFK was a war hero. Rubio is only noted for lying, and propping his drug dealer brother-in-law.[/li][/quote] Law review editor? WTF?!?!?! There are plenty of people on the other side of the political spectrum that thinks that Obama’s only achievement is lying out of both sides of his mouth. > [@](#): > > [li] Idealogically, Obama and JFK were fairly progressive. Even Jeb! or Kasich would be pragmatic. Rubio is a puppet of the Koch Brothers and the Tea Party, each partisan lurch worse than the last.[/li][/ul] This is the only valid criticism on your list AFAICT. > [@](#): > > I don’t think either Trump or Carson is planning to win the White House, but if they did I think they’d cough up at least enough sincerity to permit progress. Cruz is intelligent enough to at least understand the issues and argue with his advisors, however twisted his idealogy might be. Rubio would be a Zero. > > TL;DR: _ **I cannot condone the sanguinity with which some Dopers embrace a possible Rubio Presidency.** _ ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-only-who-do-you-want-to-win-the-gop-nom-and-why/742196/56 "2016-01-12T16:13:41Z")
I picked JFK and Obama to compare with Rubio not because they were obviously more qualified, but because they were the only two I could think of as possibly just as _ **un** _qualified. And as I said, each had vision and great charisma. Does anyone think Rubio is particularly charismatic or visionary? Rubio’s lies are blatant indisputable misstatements of clear facts. I’m not sure what Obama lies you’re referring to. The born-in-Hawaii thing? True, I’m reflecting my own prejudices. But Jeb, Christie and Kasich have all been fairly successful Governors. Non-Governor candidates like LBJ or McCain racked up years of experience as top Senators. Rubio truly would be unusually unqualified; I call him a “Zero.” I abhor the idea that any of the three most popular GOP candidates – Trump, Cruz, Rubio – could be President. I’m far from certain that Rubio would be the worst of the three, but many regard Rubio as acceptable, somehow more reasonable than Cruz or Trump. I disagree. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-only-who-do-you-want-to-win-the-gop-nom-and-why/742196/57 "2016-01-12T16:26:57Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I picked JFK and Obama to compare with Rubio not because they were obviously more qualified, but because they were the only two I could think of as possibly just as _ **un** _qualified. And as I said, each had vision and great charisma. Does anyone think Rubio is particularly charismatic or visionary? > > Rubio’s lies are blatant indisputable misstatements of clear facts. I’m not sure what Obama lies you’re referring to. The born-in-Hawaii thing? I don’t know. You have to ask the right wing nuts that think that Obama is a lying liar that lies. I just think he is a politician that sometimes says things that he doesn’t really believe but thinks will get him elected. > [@](#): > > True, I’m reflecting my own prejudices. But Jeb, Christie and Kasich have all been fairly successful Governors. Non-Governor candidates like LBJ or McCain racked up years of experience as top Senators. Rubio truly would be unusually unqualified; I call him a “Zero.” I think Obama is a pretty successful president considering all the racism and partisanship he had to deal with. He killed Osama Bin Laden, he saved our economy from going over the brink, he saved GM and Ford (and probably the American auto industry), he changed our view of gay rights, and a whole host of other shit. His only real failures were being black and failing to pass Obamacare in a form that would actually cut medical spending. > [@](#): > > I abhor the idea that any of the three most popular GOP candidates – Trump, Cruz, Rubio – could be President. I’m far from certain that Rubio would be the worst of the three, but many regard Rubio as acceptable, somehow more reasonable than Cruz or Trump. I disagree. My problem with Rubio is that he seems beholden to the Kochs. He doesn’t strike me as a leader, he strikes me as someone else’s henchman. Hillary would walk all over him. Trump might be a Manchurian candidate. I grew up in NYC and Trump was by all accounts a fairly liberal dude until he saw Michael Bloomberg become mayor by registering as a Republican. That got him thinking. I fully expect Trump to move violently to the left on many social issues if he gets elected President. The right thinks that anyone that is willing to say such outrageous things MUST be telling the truth. They think just because he is rich, he must be like them. Trump’s BIGGEST talent is his sales talent. Then again he might be just as crazy as he sounds. I the end, I don’t think he can beat Hillary in any of the debates, he will lose the election as soon as he says that Hillary has a fat ass. Cruz is dangerous. He can beat Hillary in a debate and he is a true believer. All he has to do is convince a lot of people (who don’t know him yet) that he is just a run of the mill conservative dude and not a wingnut. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-only-who-do-you-want-to-win-the-gop-nom-and-why/742196/58 "2016-01-12T17:24:56Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I picked JFK and Obama to compare with Rubio not because they were obviously more qualified, but because they were the only two I could think of as possibly just as _ **un** _qualified. And as I said, each had vision and great charisma. Does anyone think Rubio is particularly charismatic or visionary? This seems like a self-serving argument. Charisma and/or vision doesn’t make up for experience. What is experience doing for a candidate that charisma does in its place? ---
**Author:** ![Jayhawker\_Soule](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/57b2e6/32.png) [@Jayhawker\_Soule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jayhawker_Soule)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-only-who-do-you-want-to-win-the-gop-nom-and-why/742196/59 "2016-01-12T19:15:25Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > I’d prefer that the Republican nominee be somebody that I feel is capable of being a competent president, even though I would disagree with almost everything he does. > > If I’m limited to one choice, I guess it would be Kasich. I agree. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-only-who-do-you-want-to-win-the-gop-nom-and-why/742196/60 "2016-01-12T20:14:19Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Well, only in the lesser-evil sense – i.e., compared to Trump or Cruz. Cruz might be smarter, [but he’s also systematically delusional](http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/ted-cruz-isnt-idiot-hes-delusional-and-thats-far-more-dangerous), or else so cynical he panders to the delusional as if he were so himself. And Trump is, well, Trump. Rubio isn’t ready and so would probably simply be subordinate to the Republican Congressional leadership. So you figure Paul Ryan would be the real power in DC if Rubio was elected, with Mitch McConnell a close second assuming the GOP held onto the Senate. You also have to look at VP choice with a guy like Rubio. Rubio seems more like GWB than Obama in that I think he knows he’s not really ready for everything the Presidency entails. If he picks an uber-experienced VP like a Dick Cheney-type, then that VP will probably be, well, a Dick Cheney type. So the election might be more about the VP than about Rubio. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-only-who-do-you-want-to-win-the-gop-nom-and-why/742196.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-only-who-do-you-want-to-win-the-gop-nom-and-why/742196.md?page=4)