# Democrats oppose Hispanic judge: "He's too competent!" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 31, 2003, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-oppose-hispanic-judge-hes-too-competent/151938 "2003-01-31T19:54:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2003, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-oppose-hispanic-judge-hes-too-competent/151938/1 "2003-01-31T19:54:53Z")
In a 10 to 9 straight party vote, Miguel Estrada was approved by the Senate Judiciary Committee for the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia. Newsday says Estrada is [“considered a potential Supreme Court pick”](http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/ny-usjudg313110861jan31,0,5835085.story?coll=ny%2Dnationalnews%2Dheadlines) Someone good enough to be considered for the Supreme Court must be well-qualified for the Court of Appeals. The American Bar Association gave him top ratings. He’s too well qualified, say the Democrats. They don’t want a conservative Hispanic on the Supreme Court, so they don’t want the risk of a strong Hispanic conservative on the Court of Appeals. Remember the days of Harold Carswell, when Demorats opposed Republicans judges because they were _mediocre_? :smack: ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2003, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-oppose-hispanic-judge-hes-too-competent/151938/2 "2003-01-31T20:08:01Z")
Where are you finding that the Democrats oppose him because he’s “too competent”? Is it possible–just _possible_–that they opposed him because he is said to be a conservative idealogue? [http://www.independentjudiciary.com/nominees/nominee.cfm?NomineeID=2](http://www.independentjudiciary.com/nominees/nominee.cfm?NomineeID=2) > [@](#): > > A member of the Federalist Society and a board member of the arch-conservative Center for the Community Interest, Mr. Estrada is described by people who have worked with him as a conservative ideologue who is unable or unwilling to distinguish his personal views from what the law requires. As you can also see on that page, many Hispanic groups have opposed him, as well. The “Hispanic” has nothing to do with this–they oppose him because they don’t want to put another Scalia in striking distance of the bench. Dr. J ---
**Author:** ![Robb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a183cd/32.png) [@Robb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robb)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2003, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-oppose-hispanic-judge-hes-too-competent/151938/3 "2003-01-31T20:10:49Z")
**december** , the article you linked to says the Democrats want more time to investigate him since he hasn’t published much and hasn’t answered all their questions. Where do you get that Democrats say he is too well qualified? ---
**Author:** ![cuauhtemoc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecb155/32.png) [@cuauhtemoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cuauhtemoc)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2003, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-oppose-hispanic-judge-hes-too-competent/151938/4 "2003-01-31T20:29:54Z")
This is asinine. ---
**Author:** ![blanx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f04885/32.png) [@blanx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blanx)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2003, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-oppose-hispanic-judge-hes-too-competent/151938/5 "2003-01-31T20:33:18Z")
This just in: democrats eat babies! Mmmmm… babies. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2003, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-oppose-hispanic-judge-hes-too-competent/151938/6 "2003-01-31T20:35:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > Remember the days of Harold Carswell, when Demorats opposed Republicans judges because they were _mediocre_? :smack: \*\* And Republicans _supported_ them because of it? > [@](#): > > “Even if he [Carswell} is mediocre, there are a lot of mediocre judges and lawyers. They are entitled to a little representation, aren’t they, and a little chance? We can’t have all Brandeises, Cardozos, and Frankfurters, and stuff like that there.” - Sen. Roman Hruska, R-Nebraska ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2003, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-oppose-hispanic-judge-hes-too-competent/151938/7 "2003-01-31T20:36:40Z")
> [@](#): > > He’s too well qualified, say the Democrats. They don’t want a conservative Hispanic on the Supreme Court, so they don’t want the risk of a strong Hispanic conservative on the Court of Appeals. Well, someone has to say it: CITE? ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2003, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-oppose-hispanic-judge-hes-too-competent/151938/8 "2003-01-31T20:37:43Z")
The Democrats didn’t literally say he was too well qualified, but that’s their real objection. The request for more time is a smoke screen. Democrats wished he had been more forthcoming on abortion, but they had their chance to ask the questions. There are no more questions to ask. [They wanted confidential work papers from his stint at the the Justice Department; those were properly kept confidential](http://www.nationalreview.com/york/york013103.asp). So, there was nothing left to wait for. There is no evidence that he is particularly conservative, and he [might not be conservative](http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/833491/posts). > [@](#): > > While [at the Solicitor General’s office], Estrada was the architect of the Government’s argument that RICO should be used against political protest, especially pro-life activists. > > In fact, Estrada wrote the brief and argued before the Supreme Court, asking the Court to reinstate the RICO lawsuit brought by N.O.W. and several abortion clinics against Joe Scheidler and Operation Rescue. > > Estrada argued that racketeering and organized crime statutes could be used against political protesters like Scheidler and others who engaged in sit-ins to protest abortion. In any event, political philosophy isn’t that important for a lower court who is required to follow the Supreme Court. The risk of Estrada is that he is obviously very capable. As a Hispanic, it would hard to oppose his elevation to the Supreme Court. The Dems (and their supporters) think he _might_ be conservative. That’s enough for them. **DoctorrJ** , yes your cite says, “Mr. Estrada is described by people who have worked with him as a conservative ideologue who is unable or unwilling to distinguish his personal views from what the law requires.” Having been alive during the heyday of Senator McCarthy, I am sensitive to his techniques. Imagine a unanimous vote against such a highly qualified person based on anonymous criticism! Fortunately, the National Review cite above probably explains the background of this accusation. It seems to come not from “people who have worked with him,” but rather from one person, Paul Bender. Mr. Bender turns out to be a liberal idealogue. Furthermore, when Estrada actually worked for Bender, Bender gave him nothing but praise (as did all this other supervisors.) It was only after Estrada was nominated that Bender came out with this poisonous smear. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2003, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-oppose-hispanic-judge-hes-too-competent/151938/9 "2003-01-31T20:49:01Z")
In a sense, I’m with Deecmber on this one. The Democrats are opposing Estrada because he’s a conservative, and not because of any competence reasons. I certainly wouldn’t have phrased it the way the OP does, but there’s absolutely no reason to doubt the man’s qualifications. The opposition is ideological, and that’s a crappy game to play. It was, of course, equally crappy when Clinton nominees were opposed by the Republicans for naught but ideological reasons. - Rick ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2003, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-oppose-hispanic-judge-hes-too-competent/151938/10 "2003-01-31T20:53:40Z")
1. If you are the age you say you are, you were a child during the McCarthy years. That would account for your inability to understand the meaning of the term, and your looseness in using it. 2. The discussion you have given supports the claim that he is opposed for excessive conservatism, but does not refer at all to Democrats’ assessment of his competence. Antonin Scalia, for example, is highly competent in a narrow, technical sense but is still an inappropriate choice for a lifetime, unaccountable court seat. 3. The claim that political ideology is irrelevant below Supreme Court level is specious, as you must know. Most decisions are made there and are unreviewed; furthermore the Supreme Court picks very few appeals to hear, and even then mainly the ones a number of them already want to overturn. 4. Don’t forget the “Ditto” next time. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2003, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-oppose-hispanic-judge-hes-too-competent/151938/11 "2003-01-31T20:56:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > **The Democrats didn’t literally say he was too well qualified…** And another bogus premise crashes to earth.\*\* > [@](#): > > In any event, political philosophy isn’t that important for a lower court who is required to follow the Supreme Court.\*\* Which of course explains why Republicans have in the past stalled and raised hell about Democratic judicial nominations to lower courts. **december** , you ever thought about just arguing ideology, instead of this “We’re good, you’re evil” shit? ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2003, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-oppose-hispanic-judge-hes-too-competent/151938/12 "2003-01-31T22:15:21Z")
In my youth, Democrats supported immigrants and minorities. You didn’t see them smearing Republican Senators Edward W. Brooke, who was black, or Jacob Javits (Jewish) or Margaret Chase Smith (female). They bent over backwards to treat these people with respect. Today’s Dems are different. Someone says that Estrada may be conservative. Boom! That’s all it takes. Democrats close ranks against him. Look at the posters here (other than **Bricker** )! You folks can criticize my posts, which is fair enough. The OP was provocative. However, not one of you has provided a real argument that Estrada shouldn’t be confirmed. Does it bother you that this highly-qualified immigrant is being unanimously opposed. No. If the party opposes him, you oppose him. So, tell me, **Elvis** , who are the ditto-heads? ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2003, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-oppose-hispanic-judge-hes-too-competent/151938/13 "2003-01-31T22:27:17Z")
Democrats make baby Jesus cry. ---
**Author:** ![CRorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CRorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CRorex)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2003, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-oppose-hispanic-judge-hes-too-competent/151938/14 "2003-01-31T22:27:42Z")
Wow December I didn’t think you could get any crazier… There were also a few other reasons why democrats might not want him in the US appeals court. 1. He has no experience being a judge 2. He doesn’t have an significant history of publications on legal topics 3. He’s VERY young only 41 for such a senior position 4. He REFUSED to give his stance on almost ALL major issues Add all of the things together and it makes a VERY poor choice to a lifelong position in a court that helps to decide which issues go up before the supreme court. Basically, nobody really has any clue if he conservative or liberal. In the meantime there are republican members of the judiciary committe who are saying that this party vote means democrats are telling the hispanic community they CANNOT live the american dream. Because we all know the democratic party is against seeing hispanic american’s achieve positions of power. In my opinion number 1,3 and 4 are DAMNED important. BTW NPR ran a long piece about this last night. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2003, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-oppose-hispanic-judge-hes-too-competent/151938/15 "2003-01-31T22:28:11Z")
Hey-at least he put this crap in the right forum. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Robb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a183cd/32.png) [@Robb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robb)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2003, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-oppose-hispanic-judge-hes-too-competent/151938/16 "2003-01-31T22:28:49Z")
> [@](#): > > However, not one of you has provided a real argument that Estrada shouldn’t be confirmed. I can’t say that I’m terribly interested in whether he gets confirmed. I was, however, intrigued by your suggestions that Democrats were actually saying that he was too qualified to be a judge. This would be spectacular if true, though you eventually told us that you made it up. I was just intrigued by your creativity. ---
**Author:** ![Robb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a183cd/32.png) [@Robb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robb)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2003, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-oppose-hispanic-judge-hes-too-competent/151938/17 "2003-01-31T22:34:18Z")
**december** , do you think that only Democrats question your posts? ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2003, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-oppose-hispanic-judge-hes-too-competent/151938/18 "2003-01-31T22:34:34Z")
And even **Bricker** , while defending your outrage at Dem stalling on Estrada, didn’t support your bizarre “they hate him because he’s too competent” assertion. Hey, I agree with you that the Dems are playing the same petty games the Pubbies pulled on Clinton’s nominees. I think it sucks. But damn, man. ---
**Author:** ![CRorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CRorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CRorex)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2003, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-oppose-hispanic-judge-hes-too-competent/151938/19 "2003-01-31T22:35:39Z")
Robb, if you listen to the NPR story on it the democrats aren’t saying he’s too qualified, the democrats are saying that a hispanic american shouldn’t be allowed to suceede (spelling!?) in ameica. Which would make for a much bettere pit thread December. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2003, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-oppose-hispanic-judge-hes-too-competent/151938/20 "2003-01-31T22:37:18Z")
> [@](#): > > So, tell me, Elvis, who are the ditto-heads? Don’t worry about that, December. It’s just Elvis’s hypocritical version of what he accuses you of doing, just swung in the other political direction. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-oppose-hispanic-judge-hes-too-competent/151938.md?page=2)