# Democrats Strip Superdelegates Of Power In Historic Reform Vote **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 25, 2018, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-strip-superdelegates-of-power-in-historic-reform-vote/820264 "2018-08-25T18:52:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2018, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-strip-superdelegates-of-power-in-historic-reform-vote/820264/21 "2018-08-26T18:21:35Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > They got rid of them? > > Yeah, that’s probably for the best. It’s a silly procedural thing to worry about; it’s just a step on the way to picking a good candidate. But it looks like the Democrats need to reform internally in order to compete, and become more social-democratic; this may be a concession that their future, if any, is as a mass democratic organization, not an old club. Um, no. The social Democrat garbage is no longer the shiny new penny and AOC is no longer the flavor of the month. I prefer a Democratic party that focuses on winning elections and implementing a center left policy. I don’t care about moving some damn window or furthering the revolution. There may be a few members of Bernie’s Butthurt Brigade that are gloating about reducing the super delegate influence. I only hope that this is a trade off to reduce caucuses which give too much power to fringe cultists. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2018, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-strip-superdelegates-of-power-in-historic-reform-vote/820264/22 "2018-08-26T18:52:35Z")
The Democratic party needs to do everything possible to get rid of fringe cultists like Bernie Sanders. Being “fringe”, that means they only get a tiny fraction of the primary votes anyway. What was it-- a measly 43%? How more “fringe” can you get? ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2018, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-strip-superdelegates-of-power-in-historic-reform-vote/820264/23 "2018-08-26T19:01:53Z")
I’m bemused by the idea that _social democracy_ is somehow counterproductive to “winning elections and implementing a center left policy.” ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2018, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-strip-superdelegates-of-power-in-historic-reform-vote/820264/24 "2018-08-26T19:16:50Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Despite your hate-on for Sanders supporters, I think removing caucuses would also be a good move. It’s not bullying, but it is a fairly elitist way to choose a nominee, and we’d be better off getting rid of both superdelegates AND caucuses, IMO. Yeah, I agree. It’s very undemocratic. Basically if you have the time, energy, health and money to stay all day you get to vote. Superdelegates did nothing in 2016 other than make bernie bros convinced the Dems were cheating and the game was rigged. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2018, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-strip-superdelegates-of-power-in-historic-reform-vote/820264/25 "2018-08-26T19:18:03Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > You do realize, do you not, that the most annoying of the “Bernie Bros” were Russians? Yep, or if not, passing down and sharing Russian lies. We had a guy here doing that, and I called him on it and got a warning. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2018, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-strip-superdelegates-of-power-in-historic-reform-vote/820264/26 "2018-08-26T20:07:07Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Bernie Sanders isn’t a “Bernie Bro”. Of course he is. The most devoted Bernie fan anywhere is Bernie. > [@](#): > > Sanders supported Clinton Belatedly, after the fatal damage was done, and only grudgingly. > [@](#): > > That sort of division is what the DNC is trying to avoid in the future with this rule change. Yes, but pouters gonna pout. > [@](#): > > most of those obnoxious “bros” who attacked Clinton were Russian trolls. You’re referring to some actual Dopers with that, though. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2018, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-strip-superdelegates-of-power-in-historic-reform-vote/820264/27 "2018-08-26T20:30:41Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Yes, but pouters gonna pout. They do indeed. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2018, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-strip-superdelegates-of-power-in-historic-reform-vote/820264/28 "2018-08-27T00:44:56Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Being “fringe”, that means they only get a tiny fraction of the primary votes anyway. What was it-- a measly 43%? How more “fringe” can you get? The primary voters were well aware of the attack lines the GOP would use against Hillary as the nominee, but unaware of the lines the Republicans would use against Sanders in October. Sanders was a Trotskyite candidate for presidential elector at age 39. This is fringe. And the primary voters had no idea. True, in a Sanders vs. Trump race, you can say that Sanders favored a historically violent Russian leader forty years ago, while Trump favors a currently violent Russian leader today. But Trump being fringe helps him by distracting away from actual issues he doesn’t want to talk about. In contrast, Sanders’s tremendous vulnerability to old fashioned red baiting would hurt him by distracting attention away from issues he wants to talk about. Compare and contrast to Elizabeth Warren, who was a Republican when Bernie was arguably (and I’d say actually) a communist. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2018, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-strip-superdelegates-of-power-in-historic-reform-vote/820264/29 "2018-08-27T15:26:27Z")
Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders are both widely popular which means that by definition they are not fringe candidates. Labeling Bernie a fringe candidate is a not so thinly veiled ad hominem. Weather either one of them could actually win the presidency in the general election is a separate question. Lots of mainstream candidates have failed to win the presidency. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2018, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-strip-superdelegates-of-power-in-historic-reform-vote/820264/30 "2018-08-27T20:38:48Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders are both widely popular which means that by definition they are not fringe candidates. Labeling Bernie a fringe candidate is a not so thinly veiled ad hominem. > > Weather either one of them could actually win the presidency in the general election is a separate question. Lots of mainstream candidates have failed to win the presidency. Trump is also a fringe candidate. Most people don’t care about politics enough to notice the actual policy. It just comes down to body language and whether the press treats them like a real candidate for office. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2018, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-strip-superdelegates-of-power-in-historic-reform-vote/820264/31 "2018-08-27T21:24:53Z")
A fringe candidate who wins an election is an oxymoron. Or, in this case, just a moron. 😉 Fringe does not mean unorthodox or atypical (both good descriptions of Trump). It means that one has support only “on the fringes”, which must be small else it’s not a fringe. When nearly 50% of the voters vote for you, your support is not “just on the fringes”. The term “fringe” is being used here to imply the candidate (that is, Bernie Sanders) is of little consequence because his support is not significant. That is factually incorrect, given his strong showing in the primaries. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2018, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-strip-superdelegates-of-power-in-historic-reform-vote/820264/32 "2018-08-27T21:51:38Z")
I’m impressed with how many posters are still obsessed with these “bernie bros”, extremely reminiscent of how the right wing still is fighting off Hilary Clinton. Can we agree that it’s the future now, and everything back then already happened and is over? Please? Has no one noticed that there has since been an enormous wave of progressive populism that Sanders tapped into but did not create, nor is creating now? That there is a huge upsurge in new candidates for all offices, most remarkably women, but also people of (all) colors, young people, Muslims? All wanting and deserving a place at that Democratic Party table? That is what is pushing this super delegate issue. Not the past. The present. The present in which it is absolutely imperative that the Democrats don’t fuck it up this time. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2018, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-strip-superdelegates-of-power-in-historic-reform-vote/820264/33 "2018-08-27T22:26:51Z")
Sanders didn’t have anything stolen from him. He lost because he never connected with the black community, who make up 25%+ of democratic voters. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2018, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-strip-superdelegates-of-power-in-historic-reform-vote/820264/34 "2018-08-27T22:59:03Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > I’m impressed with how many posters are still obsessed with these “bernie bros”, extremely reminiscent of how the right wing still is fighting off Hilary Clinton. Can we agree that it’s the future now, and everything back then already happened and is over? Please? > > Has no one noticed that there has since been an enormous wave of progressive populism that Sanders tapped into but did not create, nor is creating now? That there is a huge upsurge in new candidates for all offices, most remarkably women, but also people of (all) colors, young people, Muslims? All wanting and deserving a place at that Democratic Party table? That is what is pushing this super delegate issue. Not the past. The present. The present in which it is absolutely imperative that the Democrats don’t fuck it up this time. I haven’t noticed a ‘wave of progressive populism’ at all. Bernie and his Bros winning a few white state caucuses and a fluke win in a primary for AOC are hardly a wave. Especially since most of the candidates endorsed by Sanders/AOC have failed miserably. Of course, they can always resort to the tired ‘pushing the window’ narrative. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2018, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-strip-superdelegates-of-power-in-historic-reform-vote/820264/35 "2018-08-28T01:17:00Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > They got rid of them? Not entirely. They still get to vote on later ballots if someone doesn’t get a majority of delegates on the first ballot. So when political journalists are talking about the remote chance of a contested convention superdelegates will still be part of the conversation. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2018, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-strip-superdelegates-of-power-in-historic-reform-vote/820264/36 "2018-08-28T01:39:05Z")
> [@DinoR](#): > > Not entirely. > > They still get to vote on later ballots if someone doesn’t get a majority of delegates on the first ballot. So when political journalists are talking about the remote chance of a contested convention superdelegates will still be part of the conversation. According to the article, they do get to vote on the first ballot if it wouldn’t matter for some damn reason. > [@](#): > > The plan, supported by DNC Chairman Tom Perez and allies of Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.), strips superdelegates of the ability to vote on the first ballot at a presidential nominating convention ― unless a candidate already has such a large delegate advantage from caucus and primary wins that he or she would win the nomination without superdelegate support. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2018, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-strip-superdelegates-of-power-in-historic-reform-vote/820264/37 "2018-08-28T02:06:43Z")
I wait eagerly for the same contested convention stories that get recycled every 4 years. But, yes, it does look like the real story is the push to eliminate caucuses. Washington Post is reporting that 6 states will eliminate them for 2020 and there’s still time for others to come around [https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/blogs/plum-line/wp/2018/08/27/the-presidential-caucus-needs-to-die/](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/blogs/plum-line/wp/2018/08/27/the-presidential-caucus-needs-to-die/) Unfortunately, obstinate Iowa has set Feb 3 2020 for their caucus. [https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.desmoinesregister.com/amp/1099570002](https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.desmoinesregister.com/amp/1099570002) ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2018, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-strip-superdelegates-of-power-in-historic-reform-vote/820264/38 "2018-08-28T11:44:11Z")
So let’s hypothetically imagine that someone like, say, Joe Biden has more election-earned delegates going into the Democratic convention than his Berniecrat opponent, but not enough to win the race outright. Berniecrat guy/gal started off as a dark horse candidate but gained momentum toward the end and now refuses to concede. What would happen? With super delegates, the party formally went in behind the leading candidate and declared the race finished. Berniecrats cried and howled injustice, but there was a resolution. It took a while for Berniecrats to forgive and forget, and some apparently never did. But there was enough unity for Hillary Clinton to actually win the popular vote, so while the electoral math did her in, it’s clear that for the most part, voters who lean left at least tried to come to her rescue in the end. But what if the outcome were radically different? Suppose there were no super delegates, and suppose further that there’s a big push at the convention to do some horse trading in favor of the Berniecrat, even if he had fewer pre-convention delegates? Yes, it is far fetched, but it sure does seem that a lot of Bernie supporters wanted exactly this kind of outcome. So how would the rest of the country - Democrat, Republican, or Independent - have viewed his legitimacy? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2018, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-strip-superdelegates-of-power-in-historic-reform-vote/820264/39 "2018-08-28T13:18:52Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > I wait eagerly for the same contested convention stories that get recycled every 4 years. > > But, yes, it does look like the real story is the push to eliminate caucuses. Washington Post is reporting that 6 states will eliminate them for 2020 and there’s still time for others to come around > [https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/blogs/plum-line/wp/2018/08/27/the-presidential-caucus-needs-to-die/](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/blogs/plum-line/wp/2018/08/27/the-presidential-caucus-needs-to-die/) > > Unfortunately, obstinate Iowa has set Feb 3 2020 for their caucus. > > [Countdown to 2020: Date set for Iowa Democratic caucuses](https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.desmoinesregister.com/amp/1099570002) The article says that the DNC will require absentee ballots for all caucuses. Doesn’t that basically eliminate all the inherent problems of a caucus? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2018, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-strip-superdelegates-of-power-in-historic-reform-vote/820264/40 "2018-08-28T13:22:04Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > The article says that the DNC will require absentee ballots for all caucuses. Doesn’t that basically eliminate all the inherent problems of a caucus? Looks that way. That makes them effectively primaries without having to call them that, and sidesteps the perennial problem of the New Hampshire state law requiring its primaries (both parties) to be first in the nation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-strip-superdelegates-of-power-in-historic-reform-vote/820264.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-strip-superdelegates-of-power-in-historic-reform-vote/820264.md?page=3)