# Democrats trying to skew another election? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 23, 2004, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-trying-to-skew-another-election/251878 "2004-06-23T21:29:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2004, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-trying-to-skew-another-election/251878/121 "2004-06-25T16:43:57Z")
Piffle. All campaign promises carry an unstated proviso, that the pledge be possible. As well, that the pledge can be realized without undue damage. It was Mr.Clinton’s opinion, and mine, and Mr. Goldwater’s, that sexual orientation has no bearing on military service. This is friend **Gobear** ’s opinion as well. But if resistance to reform is to such an extent that insisting on it might actually damage our services, then it is time to back off, be patient, and proceed with calm deliberation. The day will come. When you don’t know The Other, you are impressed by how different he is. When you do know him, you are impressed with how much alike you really are. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2004, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-trying-to-skew-another-election/251878/122 "2004-06-25T16:46:46Z")
> [@Gobear](#): > > Hello, Mr. Vice-president! 😃 You fucking charmer, you. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2004, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-trying-to-skew-another-election/251878/123 "2004-06-25T17:28:11Z")
I’m pretty sure that none of us voting for NotBush have any illusions that John F. Kerry is another FDR, or even another Bill Clinton. Nor do we expect him to be honset. On the contrary. I expect him to say whatever the hell he has to say to get elected. We all understand that campaign promises are a game. Has anyone in history ever really expected a politico to keep his promises? Hell, I would be upset if Kerry _wasn’t_ out there lying his ass off and promising hookers and blow and four years of Camelot. I want him to be as dishonest as it takes to get rid of Bush. Like my Youth League Basketball coach used to say, if you’re not cheating, you’re not trying. Having said that, I do have a very minimum set of exectations for policies I assume will be executed by the second JFK administration. To wit: -Appoint moderate to liberal Supreme Court Justices and other federal judges. -Roll back tax cuts for the extremely rich -Open up stem cell reasearch -Do fucking _something_ about Iraq. -NOT support the same-sex marriage amendment There are more things that I would he he would do but don’t necessarily expect (getting rid of Homeland Security, for instance) but if he just does what I listed, then that, along with the hugely beneficial accomplishment of getting Bushco out of power would satisfy me just fine no matter what JFK has to say during the campaign. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2004, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-trying-to-skew-another-election/251878/124 "2004-06-25T17:47:38Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > Barbara Bush for giving birth to him is more responsible > George senior creaming up inside her is more responsible. Thank you for the weight loss strategy. Just reading that may have ruined my appetite forever. > [@World Eater](#): > > I want to get Bush out so bad I can taste it, but I’m thinking big picture No, I don’t think you are. What you are talking about is idealism, which is fine. But at some point you are going to have to think in pragmatic terms. Voting for Nader this time around isn’t going to get you a tripartisan system. It’s not going to send a message. It most certainly won’t put Nader in office. It will have one effect only, and that is to keep Georgey-boy in office. That’s how things are going to work in the real world. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2004, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-trying-to-skew-another-election/251878/125 "2004-06-25T17:54:24Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > I’m talking about the 2004 election, in which Nader poses a significant problem. It seems to be the same problem as the last go around. An uninspiring boring candidate who is barely capable of motiving people to vote for him. I don’t feel that Nader poses a significant problem, I feel he brings one to attention. > [@](#): > > There are other conservative choices beside Bush: The Constitution party (Bible- thumping fascists) or the Libertarian party (another impractical boutique party). They won’t win either, (fortunately: those Constitution party folks are scary!), but they exist and are larger than any left-wing alternate party because the right has unity of purpose and burning passion that the left lacks. Yes that burning passion is called insanity. > [@](#): > > “Bush sucks” only works until the election then you have to come up with ideas. Coulldn’t agree more. I can’t stand Kerry because all he does is rag on Bush. I’d like to hear an idea once in awhile, not a bunch of tired cliches. > [@](#): > > To prevent 4 more years of utter disaster, that’s why. Kerry will get rid of Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Ashcroft–that alone should get you on board. I don’t care, I’ll say it a million times. People should vote for the candidate they want, if they don’t like Kerry, they shouldn’t vote for him. > [@](#): > > Immaterial. We’re talking about votes for Nader. Anyone who is willing to voge for Bush at this point is so deluded that they are unreachable. **Shodan** and the other right-wing voters wouldn’t vote for Jesus Christ Himself if He ran as a Democrat. But you can be reached, I hope. Just to put you at ease, I’ll probably be voting for Kerry. I never said I liked Nader, just that I don’t blame him for Bush getting elected. On paper it’s easy to say Nader got 200,000 votes, therefore Kerry lost out on 200,000 votes, but how can you prove to me that he really siphoned them off? > [@](#): > > Four more years of Halliburton, Abu Ghraib, and Ashcroft, and you will have to bear the knowledge that you helped Bush get re-elected. If Bush gets another 4 years, I fault the insanely blind people that voted for him, no one else. On the flipside, if a _very minor_ thorn in the side like Nader poses such a threat to Kerry, that’s a big indication of how fragile the Kerry campaign is, and frankly that’s something only Kerry can something about. > [@](#): > > Hello, Mr. Vice-president! 😃 Ok that was funny. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2004, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-trying-to-skew-another-election/251878/126 "2004-06-25T18:04:47Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > Coulldn’t agree more. I can’t stand Kerry because all he does is rag on Bush. I’d like to hear an idea once in awhile, not a bunch of tired cliches. With that I must agree. Kerry’s best strategy right now would be to put forth some positive messages about the good things he will do. Right now it’s all negative, and that won’t get him elected. I keep hoping that by the convention, at least, he will start in on the positives. I’m not holding my breath, though. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2004, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-trying-to-skew-another-election/251878/127 "2004-06-25T18:07:40Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > What you are talking about is idealism, which is fine. But at some point you are going to have to think in pragmatic terms. What’s so idealistic about it? _If_ someone (who I’m sure is aware of what heppened last time), weighs the issues, looks at the candidates, and decides to vote for Nader, who the fuck am I to say anything about it. You know if all you people voted for Nader and not for Kerry, bush might lose too. :rolleyes: Look, I understand that mathematically RN might muck up Kerry a bit, but the point is I realize this, yet I still don’t care. Either Nader can call it quits, or Kerry can do more to connect with the people, so Nader ain’t a problem. > [@](#): > > Voting for Nader this time around isn’t going to get you a tripartisan system. It’s not going to send a message. It most certainly won’t put Nader in office. It will have one effect only, and that is to keep Georgey-boy in office. That’s how things are going to work in the real world. If Bush stays in office, then we deserve everything we get. The fact that his approval rating isn’t teetering between 0% and 1% boggles my mind every second of the day. Fuck Ralph Nader, just let that shit go, we have much, much, much bigger problems. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2004, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-trying-to-skew-another-election/251878/128 "2004-06-25T18:09:44Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > With that I must agree. Kerry’s best strategy right now would be to put forth some positive messages about the good things he will do. Right now it’s all negative, and that won’t get him elected. I keep hoping that by the convention, at least, he will start in on the positives. I’m not holding my breath, though. Nor am I. ---
**Author:** ![spectrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@spectrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spectrum)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2004, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-trying-to-skew-another-election/251878/129 "2004-06-25T19:17:50Z")
I never understand why candidates who are challenging incumbents have so much trouble being positive. It seems to me to be obvious that voters will be more apt to move to a candidate talking about what he loves about America and about how America is great enough to do better than it currently is than a candidate who gripes about everything that’s wrong. How come so many candidates find it hard to couch their criticisms in positive language? It’s not just Kerry. Bob Dole had the same problem in 1996, Walter Mondale in 1984. It seems like only Clinton and Reagan were any good at the “I love that America can do better” angle. Strange. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2004, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-trying-to-skew-another-election/251878/130 "2004-06-25T19:37:16Z")
> [@Uncommon Sense](#): > > The Democratic prosecutor in Milwaukee choose not to go after Milstien. Since she was never charged, they remain as allegations even though she was caught on tape. If they remain as allegations, then the charges haven’t been proven. Innocent until proven guilty, and all that. Though I wouldn’t blame you for being suspicious of Milstien in the future. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2004, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-trying-to-skew-another-election/251878/131 "2004-07-09T12:53:10Z")
This thread was originally about the Dems trying to keep Nader off the ballot in Arizona. I didn’t want to mention at the time that I’d seen articles about the GOP actively working to get Nader **on** the ballot, since I couldn’t seem to locate them. However, I **can** link to [an article about the GOP gathering sigs to get Nader on the ballot in Michigan](http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2004/07/08/politics1855EDT1146.DTL). The Dems can legitimately say that the GOP is using Nader as a tool to divert votes from them. And given that the GOP is gathering sigs to get Nader on the ballot in various states, it seems only fair to me that two should be allowed to play at that game, and that the Dems should play hardball to keep Nader _off_ the ballot, _if he can’t get on it through the efforts of his actual supporters_. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2004, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-trying-to-skew-another-election/251878/132 "2004-07-09T13:03:11Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > However, I **can** link to [an article about the GOP gathering sigs to get Nader on the ballot in Michigan](http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2004/07/08/politics1855EDT1146.DTL). There’s an interesting bit of news contained in a poll question over at Insight on the News: > [@](#): > > 6/23/04 Does it matter that the Washington Post reported the naming of Peter Camejo to be **the presidential running mate of Ralph Nader** without mentioning that Camejo **is a longtime revolutionary who was the 1976 presidential candidate of the Trotskyite communist Socialist Workers Party**? Put the two stories together, and you have republicans organizing to get a communist elected to the white house. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/45deac/32.png) [@Evil\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_One)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2004, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-trying-to-skew-another-election/251878/133 "2004-07-09T14:09:22Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > If Bush stays in office, then we deserve everything we get. The fact that his approval rating isn’t teetering between 0% and 1% boggles my mind every second of the day. Ideology is a funny thing. I said that about Bill Clinton for eight years. If you beleive in certain things, you can’t conceive how someone could think differently. But they do. Millions of them. Millions of people don’t speak in dirty word shorthand like “Halliburton” or “Ashcroft” and roll their eyes at those who do. I do agree that as the electorate continues to polarize, there will be less and less middle ground. And as passionate and intelligent as some on the left side of the fence in here are, I think they are at a numerical disadvantage. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/45deac/32.png) [@Evil\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_One)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2004, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-trying-to-skew-another-election/251878/134 "2004-07-09T14:23:02Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > Put the two stories together, and you have republicans organizing to get a communist elected to the white house. You have republicans facing a reality that some on this board are trying to avoid. A vote for Nadar is a vote for Bush. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2004, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-trying-to-skew-another-election/251878/135 "2004-07-09T14:33:09Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > Put the two stories together, and you have republicans organizing to get a communist elected to the white house. One just can’t make up things like that; you have to wait for reality to provide them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-trying-to-skew-another-election/251878.md?page=6)