# Democrats who don't support Bernie Sanders as the frontrunner are the people who put Trump in office **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 7, 2018, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-who-dont-support-bernie-sanders-as-the-frontrunner-are-the-people-who-put-trump-in-office/824159 "2018-11-07T22:08:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Barack\_Obama](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dc4da7/32.png) [@Barack\_Obama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barack_Obama)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-who-dont-support-bernie-sanders-as-the-frontrunner-are-the-people-who-put-trump-in-office/824159/21 "2018-11-08T00:18:14Z")
And see here is the problem, it’s happening to you dopers as well. We have a fundamental disagreement on who is our strongest candidate for a presidential race against Trump. Unless you can all figure a way out to stop being diluted by corporate media and what some democratic centrist shoves down your throat, then we’re going to have a full 8 years of trump presidency. Get your shit together, or get out the party. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-who-dont-support-bernie-sanders-as-the-frontrunner-are-the-people-who-put-trump-in-office/824159/22 "2018-11-08T00:19:42Z")
> [@Barack\_Obama](#): > > Hillary lost to Donald Trump because she was a poor candidate. If you honestly believe Bernie would have done worse then there is a fundamental disagreement here. There sure is. > [@](#): > > Do you understand the democratic party didn’t want Bernie Sanders as their lead. Do you understand that is still true? > [@](#): > > However many people especially after the fact, supported Bernie. He didn’t lose to hillary clinton, he lost to the establishment. When you have the entire democratic party behind you and mainstream media, of course you’re going to probably lose. And what has changed? This whole argument makes exactly as much sense as saying that the Democrats should nominate Rhode Island Senator Sheldon Whitehouse just because of his name. ---
**Author:** ![Barack\_Obama](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dc4da7/32.png) [@Barack\_Obama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barack_Obama)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-who-dont-support-bernie-sanders-as-the-frontrunner-are-the-people-who-put-trump-in-office/824159/23 "2018-11-08T00:27:33Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > There sure is. > Do you understand that is still true? > And what has changed? > > This whole argument makes exactly as much sense as saying that the Democrats should nominate Rhode Island Senator Sheldon Whitehouse just because of his name. What’s changed? the party has changed. Slowly but surely we’re throwing out the corporatist shills who helped Clinton deregulate the banks and helped bush cause recession. Sorry _buddy_ but looks like your precious establishment wont be around much longer. So what exactly changed? here’s what changed. Raul Grijalva, Rashida Tlaib, Pramila Jayapal, Ilhan Omar, Ro Khanna, Ayanna Pressley, and of course Alexandria Ocasio Cortez. That’s what has changed, actual progressives being elected into office. I don’t think we’ll see the bullshit we saw in 2016 primaries with the Democratic party LITERALLY RIGGING their election in favor of their corporatist candidate. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-who-dont-support-bernie-sanders-as-the-frontrunner-are-the-people-who-put-trump-in-office/824159/24 "2018-11-08T00:28:48Z")
> [@Barack\_Obama](#): > > Hillary lost to Donald Trump because she was a poor candidate. …Hillary lost to Trump for a whole lot of reasons. “Being a poor candidate” is your opinion and you are welcome to hold that opinion. But your opinion is not an objective fact. > [@](#): > > If you honestly believe Bernie would have done worse then there is a fundamental disagreement here. I honestly believe he would have done worse than Hillary. > [@](#): > > Do you understand the democratic party didn’t want Bernie Sanders as their lead. The democratic party didn’t want somebody who wasn’t a member of the democratic party to be their lead? Well there’s a fucking surprise. > [@](#): > > However many people especially after the fact, supported Bernie. And many people, especially after the fact, supported Hillary. > [@](#): > > He didn’t lose to hillary clinton, he lost to the establishment. Nope. He lost to Hillary. > [@](#): > > When you have the entire democratic party behind you and mainstream media, of course you’re going to probably lose. The “mainstream media” really fucked things up for Hillary. So by your metrics that makes her loss inevitable right? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-who-dont-support-bernie-sanders-as-the-frontrunner-are-the-people-who-put-trump-in-office/824159/25 "2018-11-08T00:46:59Z")
> [@Barack\_Obama](#): > > Raul Grijalva, Rashida Tlaib, Pramila Jayapal, Ilhan Omar, Ro Khanna, Ayanna Pressley, and of course Alexandria Ocasio Cortez. That’s what has changed, actual progressives being elected into office. A half dozen representatives! That’s never happened before in the whole history of the country! That’s exactly as meaningful as Bernie Sanders winning in Vermont! _Exactly_ as meaningful. ---
**Author:** ![Barack\_Obama](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dc4da7/32.png) [@Barack\_Obama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barack_Obama)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-who-dont-support-bernie-sanders-as-the-frontrunner-are-the-people-who-put-trump-in-office/824159/26 "2018-11-08T00:57:08Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …Hillary lost to Trump for a whole lot of reasons. “Being a poor candidate” is your opinion and you are welcome to hold that opinion. But your opinion is not an objective fact. > > I honestly believe he would have done worse than Hillary. > > The democratic party didn’t want somebody who wasn’t a member of the democratic party to be their lead? Well there’s a fucking surprise. > > And many people, especially after the fact, supported Hillary. > > Nope. He lost to Hillary. > > The “mainstream media” really fucked things up for Hillary. So by your metrics that makes her loss inevitable right? Just like comprehensively beating Bernie sanders is your opinion. The only difference here, is I can list off things Bernie said that democrats are going to run on in 2020, ran on this election, and didn’t run on in past election. and hillary refused to run on in 2016. What a fucking surprise yeah it was. That was the first presidential election I was able to vote in and having what I thought were suppose to be moral leaders in the country that stood for a bettering the quality of life of our people, ended up being just as bad as republicans in many instances. It was a surprise to me maybe not to you, but that aside Bernie ran in the democrat party for mostly for getting his position out there and pulling the country left. People who support hillary are mostly lesser informed voters similar to trump’s base in a lot of ways. They’re the regular soccer mom families who watch CNN and dismiss Bernie Sanders proposals on the basis he’s old, insane, or the proposals wont work, they don’t make sense. Not all of those people cared enough to actually look into these things. Most of them don’t even hear the explanation, they’re dismissive and evasive. A trend I find to be common among them is the need to be right or not entirely wrong. I think that makes sense seeing they’re victims of confirmation bias. They hear “Universal Healthcare isunaffordable” or “They want government control” then immediately dismiss the idea and will insist on it being wrong because their peers do the same thing. Mainstream media had an invested interest to show trump because he’s entertaining. Hillary versus Bernie was a much more substance based coverage, and for one portraying bernie as a bad guy trying to make hillary lose the election is one great way to get some ratings and keep viewers invested in the show. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-who-dont-support-bernie-sanders-as-the-frontrunner-are-the-people-who-put-trump-in-office/824159/27 "2018-11-08T00:58:06Z")
> [@Barack\_Obama](#): > > If you honestly believe Bernie would have done worse then there is a fundamental disagreement here. Yep. I’m with **Exapno Mapcase** on this one. This is indeed where the whole discussion founders, because I’m pretty firm in my own conviction that Bernie was a poor candidate that would almost certainly have done worse than Hilary. He would have done worse differently, but he would have still have done worse. Because if you think the Democratic establishment was shrill in denouncing him as a crazy socialist, it is absolutely nothing compared to what the Republican establishment would have done to him. He would have been beaten like a rug. I’m not saying this as Clintonista. I disliked her corporatism, her hawkishness and mediocre mass charisma( I hear she is much, much better one on one or in small settings ). As someone here once noted in part, her public speaking events came off as a bland corporate drone giving a pep speech at an annual forced attendance business retreat. Politically I’m a bit closer to Bernie and I think he has rather more charm. But he will never come within spitting distance of winning the presidency. A voting plurality of the nation will not vote in someone of his political stripe. Of course, I was wrong about Trump - so you can take that with a grain of salt if you like. But in this country I’d bet money on a caustic, bombastic, obscenely wealthy reality show buffoon before an avowed socialist anyday of the week and twice on Tuesdays. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-who-dont-support-bernie-sanders-as-the-frontrunner-are-the-people-who-put-trump-in-office/824159/28 "2018-11-08T01:09:17Z")
> [@Barack\_Obama](#): > > And see here is the problem, it’s happening to you dopers as well. We have a fundamental disagreement on who is our strongest candidate for a presidential race against Trump. Unless you can all figure a way out to stop being diluted by corporate media and what some democratic centrist shoves down your throat, then we’re going to have a full 8 years of trump presidency. Get your shit together, or get out the party. It seems to me that calling people brainwashed morons who are too stupid to know what’s good for them is, at best, a sub-optimal way of getting them to agree with you. ---
**Author:** ![Barack\_Obama](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dc4da7/32.png) [@Barack\_Obama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barack_Obama)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-who-dont-support-bernie-sanders-as-the-frontrunner-are-the-people-who-put-trump-in-office/824159/29 "2018-11-08T01:11:38Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > Yep. I’m with **Exapno Mapcase** on this one. This is indeed where the whole discussion founders, because I’m pretty firm in my own conviction that Bernie was a poor candidate that would almost certainly have done worse than Hilary. He would have done worse differently, but he would have still have done worse. Because if you think the Democratic establishment was shrill in denouncing him as a crazy socialist, it is absolutely nothing compared to what the Republican establishment would have done to him. He would have been beaten like a rug. > > I’m not saying this as Clintonista. I disliked her corporatism, her hawkishness and mediocre mass charisma( I hear she is much, much better one on one or in small settings ). As someone here once noted in part, her public speaking events came off as a bland corporate drone giving a pep speech at an annual forced attendance business retreat. Politically I’m a bit closer to Bernie and I think he has rather more charm. > > But he will never come within spitting distance of winning the presidency. A voting plurality of the nation will not vote in someone of his political stripe. Of course, I was wrong about Trump - so you can take that with a grain of salt if you like. But in this country I’d bet money on a caustic, bombastic, obscenely wealthy reality show buffoon before an avowed socialist anyday of the week and twice on Tuesdays. I believe by him pulling us all left, he’s given himself more of a chance to become president. As universal healthcare for example became more popular democrats actually starting proposing it. If he can pull people left enough to get universal healthcare in picture then I have no doubt he can rally up enough votes to beat Trump. There is also the fact he is a strong character just like Trump is and Hillary is not. The average person can’t name more than a few things Hillary is right about. If you ask that same person what either Trump or Bernie is right about they’ll have a million things to say. People take interest in characters, and people also take interest in justice. Trump supporters were told they’d crack down on foreigners coming into the country causing problems, they felt a sense of righteousness because of this and it sparked his base. Bernie supporters are the same way, they were told they’d have free college education, free healthcare, and that hit really hard with a lot of struggling people. Edit: I mean did anyone actually think Trump would win? He pulled everyone pretty far right and dominated the republican party as a result. Bernie can do the same. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-who-dont-support-bernie-sanders-as-the-frontrunner-are-the-people-who-put-trump-in-office/824159/30 "2018-11-08T01:20:14Z")
> [@Barack\_Obama](#): > > Just like comprehensively beating Bernie sanders is your opinion. …nope. She pretty much comprehensively beat Bernie in the primaries. It wasn’t even close. > [@](#): > > The only difference here, is I can list off things Bernie said that democrats are going to run on in 2020, ran on this election, and didn’t run on in past election. and hillary refused to run on in 2016. Non sequitur. > [@](#): > > What a fucking surprise yeah it was. That was the first presidential election I was able to vote in and having what I thought were suppose to be moral leaders in the country that stood for a bettering the quality of life of our people, ended up being just as bad as republicans in many instances. It was a surprise to me maybe not to you, but that aside Bernie ran in the democrat party for mostly for getting his position out there and pulling the country left. If Bernie wants to represent the Democrats then he should join the Democrats. Its not that hard of an equation. > [@](#): > > People who support hillary are mostly lesser informed voters similar to trump’s base in a lot of ways. Cite? > [@](#): > > They’re the regular soccer mom families who watch CNN and dismiss Bernie Sanders proposals on the basis he’s old, insane, or the proposals wont work, they don’t make sense. That’s a pretty fucking broad brush you are painting with. And as we know the identity of many of the people that both supported Hillary and voted for her we know that this very well might be a subset of the people that voted for Clinton, but not necessarily representative. > [@](#): > > Not all of those people cared enough to actually look into these things. How would you know? > [@](#): > > Most of them don’t even hear the explanation, they’re dismissive and evasive. Most of them? Cite? > [@](#): > > A trend I find to be common among them is the need to be right or not entirely wrong. I think that makes sense seeing they’re victims of confirmation bias. They hear “Universal Healthcare isunaffordable” or “They want government control” then immediately dismiss the idea and will insist on it being wrong because their peers do the same thing. Hillary voters don’t support universal health care? Cite? > [@](#): > > Mainstream media had an invested interest to show trump because he’s entertaining. Hillary versus Bernie was a much more substance based coverage, and for one portraying bernie as a bad guy trying to make hillary lose the election is one great way to get some ratings and keep viewers invested in the show. Mainstream media posted Bernie as a “bad guy?” Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Barack\_Obama](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dc4da7/32.png) [@Barack\_Obama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barack_Obama)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-who-dont-support-bernie-sanders-as-the-frontrunner-are-the-people-who-put-trump-in-office/824159/31 "2018-11-08T01:37:54Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > If Bernie wants to represent the Democrats then he should join the Democrats. Its not that hard of an equation. Democrats are suppose to represent the average person. Bernie, by all means was trying to represent the average person by advocating for things that would support them. It’s undeniable he has pulled democrats further left. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-who-dont-support-bernie-sanders-as-the-frontrunner-are-the-people-who-put-trump-in-office/824159/32 "2018-11-08T01:44:09Z")
> [@Barack\_Obama](#): > > Democrats are suppose to represent the average person. …says who? > [@](#): > > Bernie, by all means was trying to represent the average person by advocating for things that would support them. Hillary was trying to represent the average person by advocating for things that would support them. > [@](#): > > It’s undeniable he has pulled democrats further left. It is deniable. You are just saying stuff. You’ve ignored my questions, gish-galloped with glee, and you are just saying stuff again. Its easy to say stuff. But your position is “Democrats who don’t support Bernie Sanders as the frontrunner are the people who put Trump in office.” Whether or not Bernie “pulled democrats further left” is debatable. But if (for the purposes of debate) we agree that he did: that still doesn’t demonstrate that “not supporting Bernie put Trump in office.” Can you at least try and stick to your OP? ---
**Author:** ![Barack\_Obama](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dc4da7/32.png) [@Barack\_Obama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barack_Obama)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-who-dont-support-bernie-sanders-as-the-frontrunner-are-the-people-who-put-trump-in-office/824159/33 "2018-11-08T01:48:58Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …says who? > > Hillary was trying to represent the average person by advocating for things that would support them. > > It is deniable. You are just saying stuff. You’ve ignored my questions, gish-galloped with glee, and you are just saying stuff again. Its easy to say stuff. But your position is “Democrats who don’t support Bernie Sanders as the frontrunner are the people who put Trump in office.” Whether or not Bernie “pulled democrats further left” is debatable. But if (for the purposes of debate) we agree that he did: that still doesn’t demonstrate that “not supporting Bernie put Trump in office.” > > Can you at least try and stick to your OP? Hillary lost to Donald Trump. Not unifying under one person will allow Trump to win again. Bernie Sanders is the only person you’ll be able to collectively unify behind because his base is as strong if not stronger than Trumps. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-who-dont-support-bernie-sanders-as-the-frontrunner-are-the-people-who-put-trump-in-office/824159/34 "2018-11-08T01:55:21Z")
> [@Barack\_Obama](#): > > Hillary lost to Donald Trump. …Bernie lost to Hillary. > [@](#): > > Not unifying under one person will allow Trump to win again. That person doesn’t have to be Bernie. > [@](#): > > Bernie Sanders is the only person you’ll be able to collectively unify behind because his base is as strong if not stronger than Trumps. Another new claim. Are you going to provide a cite for this one, or ignore the request just like you’ve ignored all the rest? Nobody has announced they are running for president yet. Including Bernie. Aren’t you putting the cart before the horse? Don’t you think we should look at the actual contenders first, before we determine which of the contenders has the strongest base? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-who-dont-support-bernie-sanders-as-the-frontrunner-are-the-people-who-put-trump-in-office/824159/35 "2018-11-08T02:16:57Z")
> [@Barack\_Obama](#): > > So I recently had something interesting occur. I said Bernie Sanders was the strongest person democrats could run for the 2020 election. I was met with a few responses that I didn’t expect. So I pushed them, why don’t you support bernie (wasn’t answer), then I asserted a few claims. Those claims weren’t met with much resistance, instead the person started talking about the AG being fired. After just trying to grasp my head around how Sessions being fired relates to Bernie Sander’s pushing the democratic party left and having universal healthcare in the national conversation. Needless to say, I was blocked on twitter by someone who doesn’t support bernie, yet is a democrat. Now I’ve dealt with this sort of thing before, but it really opens up a serious point that many people don’t get. The democratic party did it’s absolute best to silence Bernie and alongside corporate media to dismiss him. Amazingly, he managed to push the entire party left. He got things like universal healthcare to be apart of the conversation. Even Obama has recently went on proposing it, and even went as far as to make an argument for why we’ll need universal basic income. It’s amazing how far left a single candidate pushed the entire party. > > But that’s not what many democrats care about. Many democrats are just as ignorant as Trump supporters. Emotional, irrational, and in many ways completely delusional. Beto just fucking lost to Ted fucking Cruz and people want him to run as president. People actually WANT hillary clinton to run again, It’s mind boggling, the most irritating thing I’ve ever had to hear in my life. We’re going to lose 2020 if the average democrat can’t get it through their thick skull that what they hear on CNN, MSNBC, or on the “morning joe” isn’t everything. The reason why people don’t support Bernie specifically these dems, is because they fell in line with corporate agenda that the media and party have projected. They dismissed and assaulted Bernie non-stop, now there are many dems still who are stuck in that 2016 mindset that Hillary is somehow the best option for the Party. They honestly believe Bernie Sanders costed Hillary the election, and not the other way around. And when pushed on the substance, they break down like trump supporters refusing to change position. > > How do we fix this, what do we do. Or am I the delusional one for thinking Hillary and Beto are weak candidates that can’t hold a candle to Donald Trump’s campaigning. Trump would absolutely annihilate both of them. Any thoughts on this? You have it backward is my first thought, though a more nuanced answer would be that you partially have it backwards, as there were a lot of factors that put Trump in the White House. Bernie bros, IMHO, were one of those factors. Had they thrown their complete support behind Clinton I think she would have won. Of course, had blue collar Democrats in key states not supported Trump I also think she would have won. Or had some key independents and unaligned not supported Trump, she would have won. But overall, I do think it was Bernie Sanders and, more importantly his idiotic fervent supporters who wouldn’t support Clinton (hell, some even to this day…even despite the pretty evident fact that it was a disaster) that gave us Trump as President. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-who-dont-support-bernie-sanders-as-the-frontrunner-are-the-people-who-put-trump-in-office/824159/36 "2018-11-08T02:34:54Z")
I’m going to ignore the ongoing argument between the two main posters here. I will, instead, explain why the OP’s assertion is incorrect. I am neither Democrat nor Republican. I’m a very middle-of-the-road voter, who tends to be slightly socially liberal, but slightly fiscally conservative. I’m also a believer in a more federal method of governing, meaning I prefer the most local governmental entity to take care of a problem, and the federal government to deal only with things that have been shown to require a federal solution (e.g.: environmental protections in the 1970s, but not much of anything relating to education, IMO). I can say this with complete certainty: as much as I dislike the current resident of 1600 Pennsylvania Ave., I would have definitely preferred him to Bernie Sanders last fall. I find Sen. Sanders’ rhetoric to be much to radical for my taste, and I think his social program suggestions would both bankrupt the country and destroy any pretense of federalism in our governmental structure. Therefore, had Democrats voted Bernie Sanders as their candidate last election, I, and I believe a good many other like-minded voters, would have given the President a much bigger margin of victory. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-who-dont-support-bernie-sanders-as-the-frontrunner-are-the-people-who-put-trump-in-office/824159/37 "2018-11-08T03:03:02Z")
> [@Barack\_Obama](#): > > Hillary Clinton lost to Donald Trump. They didn’t put in a strong candidate, they put in the worst possible one. I guess you’re living in a bubble because majority of Americans dont like Hillary clinton A majority of 2016 voters voted for her for President. I’m not arguing that she was the optimal Democratic candidate, and she was certainly disliked by a lot of people, but she was, at the very minimum, competent, smart and experienced. More importantly, Sanders will be seventy-nine years old on Election Day 2020, and Clinton will be seventy-three. It is time to stop re-fighting their battles for national office, which are now firmly in the past. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-who-dont-support-bernie-sanders-as-the-frontrunner-are-the-people-who-put-trump-in-office/824159/38 "2018-11-08T03:21:26Z")
I liked Sanders, but even I noticed that a lot of his stuff was empty promises, without a clear path to actually accomplish them. I mean, I get the idea of aiming high, but I want real plans. I also think he created this large division in the party that I do not support. After Clinton was clearly winning, he should have pulled out. He should have always remembered he and Clinton were on the same side, and never engaged in conspiracy waggling. And he needed to actually help with downballot races so he’d actually be able to govern. Both he and Clinton are too divisive to run again, and it kinda pisses me off that he clearly seems to intend to try again. If he fractures the vote again, that’s what could usher in a Trump victory. No more division in the ranks. Sure, have healthy debate about what we need to do as a party. But keep it polite and civil. The only actual enemy is Trump, not the other Democratic candidates. And, well, no more independents running as Democrats. I don’t give a crap about loyalty, but I do give a crap about actually working together, and it seems independents can’t do that. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-who-dont-support-bernie-sanders-as-the-frontrunner-are-the-people-who-put-trump-in-office/824159/39 "2018-11-08T03:23:05Z")
Also, Clinton lost to Trump because Trump appealed to a lot of people, and channeled their anger at the system. Granted, she also didn’t campaign for the white working class vote, which I agree with her husband was a bad idea. But she’s not running again. And we need someone who didn’t lose to her to run. Otherwise we have a repeat, since Obama beat Clinton. ---
**Author:** ![Barack\_Obama](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dc4da7/32.png) [@Barack\_Obama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barack_Obama)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-who-dont-support-bernie-sanders-as-the-frontrunner-are-the-people-who-put-trump-in-office/824159/40 "2018-11-08T04:20:05Z")
> [@XT](#): > > You have it backward is my first thought, though a more nuanced answer would be that you partially have it backwards, as there were a lot of factors that put Trump in the White House. Bernie bros, IMHO, were one of those factors. Had they thrown their complete support behind Clinton I think she would have won. Of course, had blue collar Democrats in key states not supported Trump I also think she would have won. Or had some key independents and unaligned not supported Trump, she would have won. But overall, I do think it was Bernie Sanders and, more importantly his idiotic fervent supporters who wouldn’t support Clinton (hell, some even to this day…even despite the pretty evident fact that it was a disaster) that gave us Trump as President. And this is exactly why not supporting Bernie is going to get us another 4 years of trump. You (democrats) want to throw Hillary back in there, maybe Harris, or even beto, then they’re going to get destroyed. Trump base and Bernie base at their very core are similar, and if you intend to throw away the bernie base and fight the trump base you’re going to have a tight race. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-who-dont-support-bernie-sanders-as-the-frontrunner-are-the-people-who-put-trump-in-office/824159.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-who-dont-support-bernie-sanders-as-the-frontrunner-are-the-people-who-put-trump-in-office/824159.md?page=3)