# Demographic implosion **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 22, 2006, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demographic-implosion/385201 "2006-12-22T08:36:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2006, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demographic-implosion/385201/1 "2006-12-22T08:36:14Z")
In both China and India there’s currently the widespread practice of aborting female fetuses. The sex of the fetus is discovered by ultrasound. Use of ultrasound for this purpose is illegal in both countries, but such laws are routinely flouted. In both countries, male children are seen as more desireable than females. The reasons are different in the two countries, although they both ultimately boil down to money. In China, it’s the result of their one-child policy. Boys are expected to support their parents in old age and so if people can only have one child, they want it to be a boy. In India, it’s a result of the dowry system. When girls marry, their families are expected to provide a substantial dowry, thus making girls a liability to the family. I have several questions about this. Does this practice happen in other countries? Well, I’m sure it happens sometimes, but is it widespread anywhere else? Has anyone projected its effects on the future population of the two countries? An article I read recently said that about 7000 fewer girls are born in India _every day_ due to this practice. It seems to me that this would have a significant impact on the future growth of India’s population. Anyone put numbers to this? Is it still going on in China? I understood they relaxed their one-child policy, so perhaps it isn’t done much there anymore. There’s going to be (or maybe already are) lots of bachelors who can’t find wives. What’s the effect of this? Will India’s dowry system collapse or even reverse (families charging bride prices)? ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2006, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demographic-implosion/385201/2 "2006-12-22T09:27:42Z")
Perhaps they’ll have to legalize same-sex marriage. ---
**Author:** ![FRDE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e68b1a/32.png) [@FRDE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FRDE)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2006, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demographic-implosion/385201/3 "2006-12-22T09:40:30Z")
Or legalize polyandry - realistically it will probably just result in a bit more prostitution. ---
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2006, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demographic-implosion/385201/4 "2006-12-22T12:11:31Z")
I heard a guy (who, in turn, was just theorizing himself) say that although China had relaxed their one-child rule, they now have a generation of only-childs who want to keep that going as they figured it is advantageous to have to care for just one and are not accustomed to large extended families, anyways. I would guess that this means there would be less pressure on first childs and only families who really want a boy would start screening the fetus’ gender for the second pregnancy if they got a girl the first time around. ---
**Author:** ![Harmonious\_Discord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/74df32/32.png) [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2006, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demographic-implosion/385201/5 "2006-12-22T12:29:34Z")
There have been many news specials on this, and It’s a problem. The same aditude that supports killing these girls, is the same aditude that expects to treat a wife as a burden and not a life long partner. Prostitution is not a practice accepted by them either. The practice seems to have become easier for them to do, because of being able to abort a child, instead of throwing the child down a well, not that their beyond doing that still. The aditude is we need women, but the neighbor should have the girls, I just want boys. The society has created a really lopsided population, so much so that I hope they enjoy not getting married before they die, because there are not enough women to go around to the sons that are looking. I don’t know if they’ve reached the point where they could’nt sustain there current population in the near future or not. I wish I knew what the special was that had a large group of young farmer men in their 20’s. They couldn’t find a wife to marry, only one man had a prospect at the time. ---
**Author:** ![Harmonious\_Discord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/74df32/32.png) [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2006, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demographic-implosion/385201/6 "2006-12-22T12:33:05Z")
It seemed like at this time when the men can’t get brides, that the value of a women is getting some rethinking. This may actually be what knocks sense into them and gets the practice ended. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2006, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demographic-implosion/385201/7 "2006-12-22T12:43:38Z")
Along these same lines, I wonder if Muslim terrorism is partially caused by a lack of available women, due to polygamous marriages. If you’re a Muslim guy, and you know you’re a loser who isn’t likely to attract one of the relatively few women available, then maybe that’s what causes some of those guys to drift into terrorist circles and become suicide bombers and things like that. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2006, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demographic-implosion/385201/8 "2006-12-22T13:11:21Z")
[QUOTE=Diceman] Along these same lines, I wonder if Muslim terrorism is partially caused by a lack of available women, due to polygamous marriages. If you’re a Muslim guy, and you know you’re a loser who isn’t likely to attract one of the relatively few women available, then maybe that’s what causes some of those guys to drift into terrorist circles and become suicide bombers and things like that. [/QUOTE] I don’t think polygyny is that widespread in the Muslim world. This Wikipedia entry says “In Islamic world, the polygamous marriages constitute only 1–3 % of all marriages.” > **[Polygamy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygamy#_note-enc)** > > Polygamy (from Late Greek πολυγαμία polygamía, "state of marriage to many spouses") is the practice of marrying multiple spouses. When a man is married to more than one wife at the same time, it is called polygyny. When a woman is married to more than one husband at the same time, it is called polyandry. In contrast, in sociobiology and zoology, researchers use "polygamy" more broadly to refer to any form of multiple mating. In contrast to polygamy, monogamy is marriage consisting of only two pa... Of course, that’s Wikipedia. Perhaps you have some different figures. ---
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2006, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demographic-implosion/385201/9 "2006-12-22T13:51:04Z")
[QUOTE=Diceman] Along these same lines, I wonder if Muslim terrorism is partially caused by a lack of available women, due to polygamous marriages. If you’re a Muslim guy, and you know you’re a loser who isn’t likely to attract one of the relatively few women available, then maybe that’s what causes some of those guys to drift into terrorist circles and become suicide bombers and things like that. [/QUOTE] Is it a fact that all terrorists are ugly? (or otherwise unmarriable) ---
**Author:** ![MLS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MLS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MLS)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2006, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demographic-implosion/385201/10 "2006-12-22T15:51:31Z")
[QUOTE=Bridget Burke] I don’t think polygyny is that widespread in the Muslim world. This Wikipedia entry says “In Islamic world, the polygamous marriages constitute only 1–3 % of all marriages.” > **[Polygamy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygamy#_note-enc)** > > Polygamy (from Late Greek πολυγαμία polygamía, "state of marriage to many spouses") is the practice of marrying multiple spouses. When a man is married to more than one wife at the same time, it is called polygyny. When a woman is married to more than one husband at the same time, it is called polyandry. In contrast, in sociobiology and zoology, researchers use "polygamy" more broadly to refer to any form of multiple mating. In contrast to polygamy, monogamy is marriage consisting of only two pa... Of course, that’s Wikipedia. Perhaps you have some different figures. [/QUOTE] Slight hijack: Last year when I was in Libya for the solar eclipse, our local tour guide told us that in that country a man was allowed to have multiple wives. However, before he can do so, he must have the first wife’s permission! He said it rarely, if ever, happened. ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2006, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demographic-implosion/385201/11 "2006-12-22T22:06:53Z")
[QUOTE=Diceman] Along these same lines, I wonder if Muslim terrorism is partially caused by a lack of available women, due to polygamous marriages. [/QUOTE] Dr. Tawfik Hamid, an ex-terrorist who was trained by al-Zawahiri, has some interesting comments. [http://www.canada.com/components/print.aspx?id=eb74b136-3729-42a1-821b-77366f7af920](http://www.canada.com/components/print.aspx?id=eb74b136-3729-42a1-821b-77366f7af920) > [@](#): > > “Islam condemns extra-marital sex as well as masturbation, which is also taught in the Christian tradition. But Islam also tells of unlimited sexual ecstasy in paradise with beautiful virgins for the martyr who gives his life for the faith. Don’t for a moment underestimate this blinding passion or its influence on those who accept fundamentalism.” > > A pause. “I know. I was one who accepted it.” > > … > > “The sexual aspect is, of course, just one part of this…” ---
**Author:** ![Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a9a28c/32.png) [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oslo_Ostragoth)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2006, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demographic-implosion/385201/12 "2006-12-23T05:25:25Z")
[QUOTE=dtilque] There’s going to be (or maybe already are) lots of bachelors who can’t find wives. What’s the effect of this? [/QUOTE] I have nothing solid to support this, but my guess is that any time testosterone\>\>\>available release of said testosterone, violence will ensue. It’s what human males do. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2006, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demographic-implosion/385201/13 "2006-12-23T15:07:48Z")
It’s probably noteworthy that many terrorists are not eager young turks (in the sense of being rough youths, not actual Turks), but middle-aged and moderately successful and educated men. This has led many to believe that terrorism can attract grunts from disaffected young men, but that the best terrorists come from thoe pissed off at the lack of opportunity in the (largely dysfunctional) muslim world. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2006, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demographic-implosion/385201/14 "2006-12-23T22:48:37Z")
[QUOTE=Oslo Ostragoth] I have nothing solid to support this, but my guess is that any time testosterone\>\>\>available release of said testosterone, violence will ensue. It’s what human males do. [/QUOTE] Possibly, but as suggested above, there may be an inrease in prostitution to compesate. What I was really interested in is the demographics. Anyone have any figures on reduced population growth as a result of this? ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2006, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demographic-implosion/385201/15 "2006-12-24T05:18:03Z")
[QUOTE=Bridget Burke] I don’t think polygyny is that widespread in the Muslim world. This Wikipedia entry says “In Islamic world, the polygamous marriages constitute only 1–3 % of all marriages.” [/QUOTE] Ah, OK. I guess I thought that polygamous marriages were more common than that. We’ve all heard stories involving a rich sheik and his harem of wives. ---
**Author:** ![medstar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f07891/32.png) [@medstar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/medstar)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2006, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demographic-implosion/385201/16 "2006-12-24T22:20:06Z")
It’s not just aborting female fetuses that is decimating China’s women; there have been many stories of western couples who adopt female babies from China’s orphanages. Are lonely chinese men going to start kidnapping korean, vietnamese, and japanese women for brides? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2006, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demographic-implosion/385201/17 "2006-12-25T04:26:29Z")
Another unanticipated aspect of China’s “one son” policy is the psychological effect it has had on these men. I recently read that many of these boys were essentially raised as the “prince” of the family and grew up in an atmosphere which said that their mere existence made them important. Obviously, there’s going to be problems when several million young men confront the reality that they can’t all be the center of the universe. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2006, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demographic-implosion/385201/18 "2006-12-25T04:31:07Z")
> [@](#): > > Possibly, but as suggested above, there may be an inrease in prostitution to compesate. If anything, I would anticipate the opposite. The majority of women who become prostitutes do so because they lack better alternatives. In China, the severe shortage of women will make it possible not only for virtually every woman to find a husband but usually have a choice of several different prospects. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2006, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demographic-implosion/385201/19 "2006-12-25T05:02:06Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] Another unanticipated aspect of China’s “one son” policy is the psychological effect it has had on these men. I recently read that many of these boys were essentially raised as the “prince” of the family and grew up in an atmosphere which said that their mere existence made them important. Obviously, there’s going to be problems when several million young men confront the reality that they can’t all be the center of the universe. [/QUOTE] From what I’ve heard, these kids are known as “Little Emperors.” Basically, China has a generation of spoiled brats who are going to be hit with a rude reality check. ---
**Author:** ![FRDE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e68b1a/32.png) [@FRDE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FRDE)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2006, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demographic-implosion/385201/20 "2006-12-25T06:05:40Z")
[QUOTE=Diceman] From what I’ve heard, these kids are known as “Little Emperors.” Basically, China has a generation of spoiled brats who are going to be hit with a rude reality check. [/QUOTE] Not necessarily, they will be substantially better educated than the majority of their male age group. Eventually a reality check will occur, but only when China is a lot more economically and educationally homogenous. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demographic-implosion/385201.md?page=2)