# Demonizing older voters **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 3, 2018, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonizing-older-voters/823949 "2018-11-03T21:40:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonizing-older-voters/823949/61 "2018-11-05T01:45:04Z")
I’m a Boomer and I think it is time to pass the baton. I voted early, in an area where I often had to choose between two Democrats or for non-partisan offices. I voted Democratic, younger, non-white. I’m sure someone will demonize me (an older white guy) but I feel good about the candidates I chose. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonizing-older-voters/823949/62 "2018-11-05T02:04:27Z")
> [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](#): > > Long lines are indeed an abomination. I doubt I’ve ever waited more than 15 minutes, and usually not close to that–and that in a racially diverse small city, in a county run mostly by Republicans (but a state dominated by the Dems). > > On the other hand, my son and his partner did early voting today in Chicago–not exactly a hotbed of Republicanism to say the least–and reported that they waited in line for an hour and a half. :eek: > > Which is only to say, party shenanigans may often, even usually, be the problem, but they are not the whole story. In terms of proximate causes, party shenanigans are part but not all of the problem. In terms of ultimate causes, they are almost the entire problem. This stuff isn’t rocket science: other high income countries have mastered it. But the US has a history of voter suppression, stretching back to Reconstruction after the Civil War. So it’s disappointing though not surprising that resources haven’t been poured into this issue. Today, the GOP likes it this way, as long lines are predominantly urban. A sense of fairness and justice dominates in most advanced countries, but among US conservatives. ETA: Voter participation rates: [Voter Turnout Statistics by Country](https://www.accuratedemocracy.com/d_stats.htm#turnout2) Australia: 93% Germany 71% Canada 68% US 55% Wiki: > **[Voter turnout](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_turnout)** > > In political science, voter turnout is the participation rate (often defined as those who cast a ballot) of a given election. This is typically either the percentage of registered voters, eligible voters, or all voting-age people. According to Stanford University political scientists Adam Bonica and Michael McFaul, there is a consensus among political scientists that "democracies perform better when more people vote." > Institutional factors drive the vast majority of differences in turnout rates.... Chile 93% Japan 71% ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonizing-older-voters/823949/63 "2018-11-05T03:04:35Z")
Isn’t voting “mandatory” in Australia? I believe a fine is levied if you do not. If so, it sounds great to me. It would put an end to the tyranny of the republican minority in the USA. A conservative party could still win, but they would have to move waaaaaaaaaay back towards the center. Win. Win. But it’s not “freedom” so fuck us. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonizing-older-voters/823949/64 "2018-11-05T03:22:03Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > Isn’t voting “mandatory” in Australia? I believe a fine is levied if you do not. Also Chile (historically, but not now). Not ever in Germany, Canada, or Japan. > **[Compulsory voting](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_voting)** > > Compulsory voting, also called universal civic duty voting or mandatory voting, is the requirement that registered voters participate in an election. As of January 2023, 21 countries have compulsory voting laws. Enforcement of the law in those countries varies considerably and the penalty for not casting a ballot without a proper justification ranges from severe to non-existent. > Athenian democracy held that it was every Athenian citizen's duty to participate in decision-making, but attendance a... ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonizing-older-voters/823949/65 "2018-11-05T04:37:37Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > Isn’t voting “mandatory” in Australia? I believe a fine is levied if you do not. > > If so, it sounds great to me. It would put an end to the tyranny of the republican minority in the USA. A conservative party could still win, but they would have to move waaaaaaaaaay back towards the center. Win. Win. > > But it’s not “freedom” so fuck us. It’s mandatory to be enrolled to vote, and it’s mandatory to rock up to a polling booth on election days (local, state and federal) to have your name marked off. Once you have your voting paper in your hand though, you can do what you like with it: you can fill it out legitimately to vote for your candidate/s of choice, or you can write _'ALL POLITICIANS SUCK DONKEY BALLS_’…which is funnily enough called a ‘Donkey Vote’. 😃 But we in Aus have a major incentive to vote that other countries might like to take heed of: [DEMOCRACY SAUSAGES](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_sausage) 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonizing-older-voters/823949/66 "2018-11-05T05:45:23Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > But we in Aus have a major incentive to vote that other countries might like to take heed of: [DEMOCRACY SAUSAGES](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_sausage) I like how you guys think! ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonizing-older-voters/823949/67 "2018-11-05T06:13:01Z")
Over in the US, there’s a nonprofit named [Pizza to the Polls](https://www.foodandwine.com/news/pizza-delivery-polling-places-long-lines), which sends free pizzas to places where the polling line gets long. “We send pizzas anywhere there’s a line and ask our delivery people to give them to anyone there: people in line, their kids, poll volunteers and staff, and anyone else hungry for a slice,” ---
**Author:** ![Batano](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b487fb/32.png) [@Batano](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batano)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonizing-older-voters/823949/68 "2018-11-05T08:12:35Z")
Old guy next doorvhas been sponging off my wifi. I told hom to sta off my LAN ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonizing-older-voters/823949/69 "2018-11-05T08:17:25Z")
> [@Batano](#): > > Old guy next doorvhas been sponging off my wifi. I told hom to sta off my LAN I dunno whether to quote this for truth, or to point at you and laugh. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Filbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/filbert/32/3433_2.png) [@Filbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Filbert)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonizing-older-voters/823949/70 "2018-11-05T10:25:19Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > But we in Aus have a major incentive to vote that other countries might like to take heed of: [DEMOCRACY SAUSAGES](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_sausage) > > 😛 That’s just suppressing the vegan vote 😉 ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonizing-older-voters/823949/71 "2018-11-05T11:05:55Z")
We need to incentivize voting, in some way, I think. I look at it this way, if you refuse to vote you are sort of pushing your civic responsibility onto everyone else. Everyone else is deciding things for you, because you can’t be arsed. That should carry some cost, if you want to opt out. Perhaps a tax incentive/penalty. If you don’t vote, every government service costs an extra $2. So your car license plates, a marriage license, building permit, speeding ticket, school fees, etc. Including $2 off any rebate or supplement you’re receiving, tax rebate, welfare. It’s only two dollars, so it won’t be too onerous in any one instance. But it could add up over the year. Your freedom remains intact, but like everything else in life, you pay a small price for the cost of someone else ‘doing it for you’! It could work, every layer of government would benefit from the extra cash, who doesn’t like that? And voters would feel better about non voters, less acrimony maybe. Just one suggestion. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonizing-older-voters/823949/72 "2018-11-05T11:26:04Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > A sense of fairness and justice dominates in most advanced countries, but among US conservatives. I think this is the underlying cause: not having a sense of fairness. The values of the white conservative America are anything but egalitarian. They promote socioeconomic inequality. A society has to believe in a certain level of parity among its people in order to have a healthy, vibrant democratic society. Democracy is necessarily an inclusive system; a society that rejects inclusion, which white conservatives usually do, is not a democratic society. That explains things like vote suppression, which is conservatives’ way of saying that their votes should count more because they’re the right kind of voters. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonizing-older-voters/823949/73 "2018-11-05T12:13:45Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > We need to incentivize voting, in some way, I think. I look at it this way, if you refuse to vote you are sort of pushing your civic responsibility onto everyone else. Everyone else is deciding things for you, because you can’t be arsed. That should carry some cost, if you want to opt out. Perhaps a tax incentive/penalty. If you don’t vote, every government service costs an extra $2. So your car license plates, a marriage license, building permit, speeding ticket, school fees, etc. Including $2 off any rebate or supplement you’re receiving, tax rebate, welfare. It’s only two dollars, so it won’t be too onerous in any one instance. But it could add up over the year. > > Your freedom remains intact, but like everything else in life, you pay a small price for the cost of someone else ‘doing it for you’! > > It could work, every layer of government would benefit from the extra cash, who doesn’t like that? And voters would feel better about non voters, less acrimony maybe. > > Just one suggestion. Very few elections have passed me by without my participation, but I don’t like this idea. I don’t think voting should be mandatory. What’s worse for democracy? A disinterested person stays home, not influencing anything or anyone? Or a disinterested person steps into the voting booth, randomly choosing candidates like a mentally handicapped monkey? Also, I can easily imagine a scenario in which none of the candidates appeal to me, not even a “lesser of two evils” kind of way. What’s forcing me to vote in this situation going to do, except make me vote for the write-in candidate named “FUCK ALL YA’LL.” ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonizing-older-voters/823949/74 "2018-11-05T12:42:16Z")
Monstro, I agree. Analogously, one reason the US has a bigger percentage of churchgoers than many Western developed countries is that it DOESN’T have an official, government-sanctioned religion. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonizing-older-voters/823949/75 "2018-11-05T12:44:19Z")
You screw up my democracy when you can’t be arsed to vote. Only 51% of voters turn out, whoever wins 26% of a vote split four ways, now forms a government! 26% of 51% is a tiny number of people making choices for everyone. It certainly isn’t a representative democracy. And it’s much, much easier to manipulate the vote. Participate, or pay for the privilege not to. Everything comes at a cost, this should too! If 90% of voters were going to the polls, the political dialogue would change. Both language and intent would be redirected back to voter needs, away from corporate/donor needs, I believe. Would you maybe prefer, ‘use it or lose it!’ ? If you don’t vote in X number of opportunities, we take your vote away. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonizing-older-voters/823949/76 "2018-11-05T13:07:25Z")
I haven’t sensed Geezer Demonization in ads urging young people to vote. Though the typical Young Voters the ads portray make me want to vote just to keep them out of power. It’s gotta be a right wing plot. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![catflea12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f6c823/32.png) [@catflea12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catflea12)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonizing-older-voters/823949/77 "2018-11-05T13:21:38Z")
as an old white woman, I am getting more liberal as I age. Universal Health Care, changing the immigration laws so people can come in legally, increase taxes to pay for roads bridges, schools, etc.–I am in favor of all that. I figure I got my nice life, let someone else have a chance. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonizing-older-voters/823949/78 "2018-11-05T13:38:51Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > You screw up my democracy when you can’t be arsed to vote. You know what screws up democracy? When uneducated, uninformed, silly people are pressured to vote but not pressured to educate and inform themselves. The 2016 US presidential election saw a lot of people voting with the same thoughtfulness as teenagers voting for Homecoming queen. These idiots then entertained themselves posting to #Trumpgret within days of the election. Our democracy would have been better off with those jackasses staying home. They certaintly weren’t better citizens than the folks who stayed home because they knew they weren’t informed enough to responsibly vote. > [@](#): > > Would you maybe prefer, ‘use it or lose it!’ ? If you don’t vote in X number of opportunities, we take your vote away. 😃 Absolutely not. As long as I am paying taxes and being lawful, my right to vote should be left the fuck alone. I may have very good reasons for not voting. Like, perhaps I have not been physicially residing at my property for several years, and now that I am back, I feel more comfortable voting in local elections. I shouldn’t have to convince some ill-intentioned gatekeeper that I am worthy of franchise when I have been dutifully paying that gatekeeper’s salary all these years. Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonizing-older-voters/823949/79 "2018-11-05T15:12:04Z")
If you feel you purchased your right to vote, by paying taxes, then it seems fitting that you should pay for the privilege of not voting, to me. Are you implying that informed voters got you into the mess you’re in? One person one vote def means even the ill informed, clearly. Not voting is putting the responsibility for government on everyone else. That should have a cost. $2 seems fair. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonizing-older-voters/823949/80 "2018-11-05T15:52:10Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > If you feel you purchased your right to vote, by paying taxes, then it seems fitting that you should pay for the privilege of not voting, to me. Meeting the qualifications of a resident and a law-abiding citizen (which includes paying taxes) should be sufficient for franchise. Period. A tax-evader gets to vote the same as a taxpayer–fine by me. But I’ll be damned if someone who doesn’t pay taxes in my locality gets to bar me from the voting booth so that they can virtue-signal their care for civic involvement. Fuck that person to hell, I say. There are so many ways a person can demonstrate that they a good citizen. Voting isn’t even the hardest or most impactful one in the list. > [@](#): > > Are you implying that informed voters got you into the mess you’re in? One person one vote def means even the ill informed, clearly. What? How do you get this from what wrote? > [@](#): > > Not voting is putting the responsibility for government on everyone else. That should have a cost. $2 seems fair. No, it doesn’t. It is just a way to coerce people into going through the motions, with little regard to how much they care about it. Or even how difficult it is for them to care. I don’t really don’t want people voting on stuff they don’t really care about. I don’t want to force people to register their opinion about something very important when they may not be in the right mind to do so. Democracy isn’t going to descend into chaos just because some portion of the electorate can’t be bothered to show up to the polls. But I can easily imagine negative outcomes ensuing when everyone and their mama is forced to vote. . Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonizing-older-voters/823949.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonizing-older-voters/823949.md?page=5)