# Demonizing the Opposition **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 22, 2004, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonizing-the-opposition/270653 "2004-10-22T19:36:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonizing-the-opposition/270653/1 "2004-10-22T19:36:23Z")
I’ve noticed lately a lot of threads or subplots in threads questioning the sanity/rationality of people on the opposite of the political spectrum. Current examples: [ul] [li][Do Republicans have a(n) ignorant, narrow-minded, self-serving view of the world?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=282342)[/li][li][This just in, Bush supporters too stupid to breath, much less vote](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=282317)[/li][li][Democrats are good, Republicans are evil](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=281976)[/ul][/li] Those are a few of the current thread titles that take this approach. It certainly happens within threads with less inflammatory titles as well. It crosses party lines. I could (but won’t) point out posters who seem to delight in _ad hominem_ attacks. I’m just wondering what is the desired effect of this sort of oppugnant tact? I have never in my life swayed someone to my way of thinking by starting out with a personal attack on their intelligence, patriotism, morality, etc. So what am I missing? Is the idea to cow the opposition? Is it simply blowing off steam? Is it the anonymity of a message board? If I want to convince someone to vote for John Kerry, it’s probably best not to start off with, “Listen, you stooge, Bush is lying!” Likewise, if my intention is to persuade someone to vote for Bush then it’s probably best not to start off with, “Look, you Saddamite, Kerry’s been blowing the terrorists for years and isn’t going to stop when he’s elected.” Some of my friends, neighbors, acquaintances, colleagues, etc., will vote for the other side in the coming election. Win or lose, I don’t intend to cut off 40-50% of the US population from my personal and work life. When the dust is cleared, there are going to be beers to be quaffed, weddings to attend, work to be done, discussions to be had. I don’t see how personal attacks on people with convictions or beliefs that run opposite to mine are going to make the go smoothly. Am I missing something? Should I eschew all discussion with anyone whose beliefs don’t match mine, or at least don’t vote the same way as I do? Someone clue me in please. ---
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonizing-the-opposition/270653/2 "2004-10-22T23:01:50Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > I’m just wondering what is the desired effect of this sort of oppugnant tact? I have never in my life swayed someone to my way of thinking by starting out with a personal attack on their intelligence, patriotism, morality, etc. So what am I missing? Is the idea to cow the opposition? Is it simply blowing off steam? I don’t think this tactic is meant to convince anyone, it is simply blowing off steam. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonizing-the-opposition/270653/3 "2004-10-22T23:02:31Z")
Maybe there’s a genuine kernel of truth (or at least debate) in the threads? To take but one example, while “This just in, Bush supporters too stupid to breath, much less vote” is certainly an inflammatory title, the underlying pretense of the OP seems to be rooted in facts – which is to say, a study was conducted that shows a correlation between voters supporting George W. Bush and being misinformed about news events of the past four years. The _tone_ might need to be scaled back a bit (or it might just be a gimmick to draw more eyeballs to the threads), but the _contents_ seem legitimate to me. Shrill-toned discourse passing for debates is hardly new, as a review of the careers of Rush Limbaugh and Bill O’Reilly will easily demonstrate; but then, it’s been a heated election year, and everyone’s on edge. (On the bright side, the election’s less than two weeks away. Then hopefully we can get this all behind us and focus on some fun stuff, like the premiere of **The Incredibles.** 😃 ) ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2004, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonizing-the-opposition/270653/4 "2004-10-23T01:20:47Z")
I think you’re missing one layer of understanding, Shibb. What you see here is the necessary downstream effect of demonizing at the elective level. At the level of the elected class it’s clear that demonizing the opposition has a positive effect on one’s chance for election and re-election. But this concept filters down from the politicos (and their handlers) for whom this is almost certainly merely a cynical ploy, to the electorate. Thus we see demonization of the opposition’s point of view (and their very persons) by people for whom _their is no gain_. They simply do it because that’s what they see being done. It’s not a democratic or republican thing. It’s a leader and follower thing. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2004, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonizing-the-opposition/270653/5 "2004-10-23T01:37:37Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > Someone clue me in please. **ShibbOleth** , Why do you hate America? Demonization is what’s _in_. It’s what we as a people _do_. It’s us against them _baby_. You’re either with us or against us, and when the demonization turns against you, you’ve no call to go whining over how unfair it all is. It’d be nice if America got out of this wierd mood it’s been in these last few years, but the poison is within us. It has to run its course before the nation can heal and we can once again engage in civil, constructive, dialog. That’s not to say that there’s _no_ such dialog going on today, but until we get over our national fever of black and whiteism, that dialog will _always_ remain in the background. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2004, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonizing-the-opposition/270653/6 "2004-10-23T01:42:47Z")
You missed the Pit thread which basically suggested that Republicans were mentally ill, ShibbOleth. That was delightful. And no, the OP of that thread was _not_ kidding (I asked). I am tired of it. Tired. Of. It. So tired tired tired of it. This board has been full of it, mostly one-sided, and I’m tried of that too. It doesn’t matter what side this sort of nonsense is on, it’s tiresome, and tedious. I associate with people who differ from me politically, religiously, and in many other ways. I don’t think that I am so much more “superior” than they are, simply because of our differences. Some of them have views that I find weird, or incomprehensible, but I don’t think that they are evil, or mentally ill, and I don’t say anything like that, even in jest. _Even in jest_. I cannot comprehend some of the nonsense in some of these threads. I don’t know what the point is, other than to make me lose a some respect for some of the people who carry on in such a way. ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2004, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonizing-the-opposition/270653/7 "2004-10-23T01:51:41Z")
**InvisibleWombat** started a similar thread [over here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=5401049#post5401049). The stunning part is, people just don’t seem to get what he is saying. I am nearly speechless. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2004, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonizing-the-opposition/270653/8 "2004-10-23T01:59:25Z")
I read that thread, Khadaji, and I’m with you. Almost speechless. Just a bunch of blah, blah, blah, blah, as they continue to not grasp the point. In a small way, my private opinion and estimation of some Dopers here has been forever altered (in a negative way) as a result of all these threads. Not that my ill opinion should change anything, or mean diddley-squat to anyone else. But that’s just how it is for me. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2004, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonizing-the-opposition/270653/9 "2004-10-23T02:04:25Z")
> [@yosemite](#): > > You missed the Pit thread which basically suggested that Republicans were mentally ill, ShibbOleth. That was delightful. And no, the OP of that thread was _not_ kidding (I asked). As an aside, I seem to recall threads about people being mentally ill on these boards before I left… Oh, right, the ones about theists being mentally ill. Different topic, same crap. Mostly pisses me off because it makes like of true mental illness. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2004, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonizing-the-opposition/270653/10 "2004-10-23T02:21:32Z")
What **yosemite** said. Oh, crap, am I posting in GD??! _FLEES_ ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2004, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonizing-the-opposition/270653/11 "2004-10-23T07:21:23Z")
Real People are Really Dying. Tens of thousands of them. For nothing. Bush supporters don’t care. That’s worth demonizing. ---
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2004, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonizing-the-opposition/270653/12 "2004-10-23T16:01:38Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > Real People are Really Dying. > > Tens of thousands of them. > > For nothing. > > Bush supporters don’t care. “Well, as long as I get my $300 tax refund, I don’t care \*how \* many people die. Low taxes are everything. (Oh, and keeping gays from marrying)” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2004, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonizing-the-opposition/270653/13 "2004-10-23T16:11:26Z")
I tend to agree with the OP, but hey, look at Ann Coulter. She gets her books on the best seller lists and basically all she DOES is demonize the opposition. I guess “demonizing sells”. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2004, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonizing-the-opposition/270653/14 "2004-10-23T16:17:35Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > Real People are Really Dying. > > Tens of thousands of them. > > For nothing. > > Bush supporters don’t care. > > That’s worth demonizing. Exactly, because, you know, **all** Bush supporters think exactly alike. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2004, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonizing-the-opposition/270653/15 "2004-10-23T16:19:13Z")
Oh, and should you say something like “I bet your’e only defending them because you’re one of them.” No, I didn’t vote for Bush. In fact, I didn’t vote for any of the presidental candidates. I left that portion of my ballot blank. ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2004, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonizing-the-opposition/270653/16 "2004-10-23T16:20:37Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > Real People are Really Dying. > > Tens of thousands of them. > > For nothing. > > Bush supporters don’t care. > > That’s worth demonizing. But what is the _goal?_ What is the return on investment? Do you hope to change their minds this way? Do you just wish to inflame? Do you think that you will convince the fence-sitters, the undecided with this rhetoric? Or do you just want to sit around with others who think like you do and yell “Hooray, look how smart we are”? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2004, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonizing-the-opposition/270653/17 "2004-10-23T16:24:25Z")
I know… maybe we should demonize the demonizers! But then, we might have to demonize the demonizing demonizers. That would lead to demonzing the… Oh, forget it. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2004, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonizing-the-opposition/270653/18 "2004-10-23T16:45:25Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Can you give an example of when a slippery slope argument can be used in a non-fallacious way? [Does a slippery slope exist?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=4976054&highlight=slippery+slope#post4976054) ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2004, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonizing-the-opposition/270653/19 "2004-10-23T17:29:21Z")
**Shib** says that he’s never changed his position based on demonization tactics. Well good for you, but guess what, other people do. All the time. It’s what works. The most obvious example is the meteoric political career of George W Bush. He won his first governor’s race by spreading rumors that Ann Richards was a lesbian. He won the Republican primary by spreading rumors that john McCain had an illegitimate black child. He won the 2000 election by having the media drum up a lot of misleading nonsense about Gore lying. And he pulled even in this year’s presidential race by using the Swift Boat Thugs. The secret of Bush’s success is that he virtually never wastes his time, money, or energy trying to convince people that he can do a good job in office; he only spends it trying to convince people that his opponents are bad people. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2004, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonizing-the-opposition/270653/20 "2004-10-23T17:52:34Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > Is it the anonymity of a message board? Anonymity certainly is a factor. Think about all the non-message board(i.e. real, human) discussions you’ve had or overheard during the campaign. Most people remain pretty civil and polite. > [@](#): > > When the dust is cleared, there are going to be beers to be quaffed, weddings to attend I dont know of anybody, anywhere , who has cut off friendships, refused to attend a wedding, etc, because of the way a friend voted. Let’s remember that no matter how much people demonize the other side, we are all still playing the same game in the same playing field. It’s called democracy, and no matter who wins, we all play by the same rules… In places where people REALLY demonize their opponents, they use guns, not ballots. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonizing-the-opposition/270653.md?page=2)