# Demonology- Are there demons who do whatever they want? Bad and good? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 25, 2016, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonology-are-there-demons-who-do-whatever-they-want-bad-and-good/766844 "2016-09-25T17:35:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonology-are-there-demons-who-do-whatever-they-want-bad-and-good/766844/101 "2016-09-27T14:48:53Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > The “power to tempt and influence” is not really in the same category as the power to inflict curses or to provide humans with soul-damning extraordinary talents which, I am sure, was the power to which Kobal2 referred. Precisely. It’s one thing to assert that a nefarious entity is at the root of temptations or emotions or “wrong” reasonings inside man’s mind and/or soul, and that said entity therefore influences human society through nebulous, never quite enumerated much less testable ways ; it’s another to state that this entity (or supernatural entities allied with it) can directly do Bad Shit in the physical realm ; and it’s yet \*another \*to state that Jane Doe the Seamstress can a) contact this entity directly b) make deals with it and c) acquire supernatural abilities of her own through such deals or rent the services of demons to do her supernatural bidding. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonology-are-there-demons-who-do-whatever-they-want-bad-and-good/766844/102 "2016-09-27T17:49:24Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > In the end all evil will be transformed for the greater good. Any evil used against you that you transform will also accelerate the demons restoration (to angelic form). cite that demons can be redeemed. Because if they can, then why isn’t there more of an effort to do so? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonology-are-there-demons-who-do-whatever-they-want-bad-and-good/766844/103 "2016-09-27T18:30:08Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > To the OP: how do you know it was a demon and not a ghost, fairy, jinn or kami? Demon is probably just a generic term being used for spiritual being. Djinn are mentioned in he Quran and there they are portrayed as being as bound to this world ad reality as humans. They have free will unlike the angels and one of the most powerful among them is referred to as Satan. And while they may get assigned to particular people, they don’t follow those people through reincarnation. Indeed Islam (and all the Abhrahamic religions) reject the theory of reincarnation. Ghosts and faerie are both unlikely to have the ability to track a soul through several lives. I could be wrong but ghosts and faerie seem unlikely to be powerful enough to track people through reincarnation AND be interested in show so much interest in some random person. Kami are familiar with the karmic cycle of reincarnation so they might have the ability and the inclination to track a soul through several reincarnations. This would be especially true if the Kami was a family Kami and the reincarnation was occurring within a single clan that the Kami was associated with. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonology-are-there-demons-who-do-whatever-they-want-bad-and-good/766844/104 "2016-09-27T22:32:57Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > cite that demons can be redeemed. With the right coupon, they’re worth 30 cents each at Kroger. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonology-are-there-demons-who-do-whatever-they-want-bad-and-good/766844/105 "2016-09-28T01:38:04Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > cite that demons can be redeemed. I can’t cite it, but there are some universalists who hold that even Satan will make his peace with God before the end of all things. > [@](#): > > Because if they can, then why isn’t there more of an effort to do so? Most obvious problem is difficulty in communication. Tell me how to talk to a demon, and I’ll readily make an effort to get him to reform. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonology-are-there-demons-who-do-whatever-they-want-bad-and-good/766844/106 "2016-09-28T01:44:13Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > cite that demons can be redeemed. > [@Jackmannii](#): > > With the right coupon, they’re worth 30 cents each at Kroger. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonology-are-there-demons-who-do-whatever-they-want-bad-and-good/766844/107 "2016-09-28T01:54:47Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Most obvious problem is difficulty in communication. Tell me how to talk to a demon, and I’ll readily make an effort to get him to reform. You have to get Mercedes McCambridge to be a go-between. It’s been really tough since she died in 2004… ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonology-are-there-demons-who-do-whatever-they-want-bad-and-good/766844/108 "2016-09-28T02:28:09Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Angels and demons don’t exist. Oh yeah? :dubious: What about the angel in the [centerfold](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqDjMZKf-wg), huh? ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonology-are-there-demons-who-do-whatever-they-want-bad-and-good/766844/109 "2016-09-28T03:15:59Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > This is quite true (and it’s certainly _not_ true that the church ever believed that “God was the only spiritual power that there is”, as someone suggested above: it’s basic Christian doctrine, rooted in the New Testament, that the Devil and demons exist and have certain powers, some of them quite impressive). > > Witchcraft is a separate issue: to believe in the efficiacy of witchcraft means that you believe witches can literally summon up and control demons and get them do wreak havoc. The church _generally_ said the answer to that question was “no”, although they did go back and forth on that (which explains why at some points in time they did have witch trials). It’s notable that the witchcraft hysteria of the Early Modern period was more concentrated in northern European, Protestant countries. The Catholic Inquisitions were more concerned with heresy, as has been pointed out. Pure idle speculation, but I wonder if the Catholic countries were slightly more resistant to witchcraft-panic, because they’d maintained a tradition of a feminine spirituality in the cult of the Virgin Mary. ---
**Author:** ![T.M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ad7895/32.png) [@T.M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.M)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonology-are-there-demons-who-do-whatever-they-want-bad-and-good/766844/110 "2016-09-28T11:52:58Z")
> [@Ifill](#): > > 1. Are there demons who do bad AND good things if they feel like it? > > 2)Let’s say you knew a demon in a past life, and they come to you in your currently life wanting to work with you. They show you their name and what they look like. Does that seem plausible? > > 1. Do all demons hate humans or are there demons who don’t hate humans? Is it possible there are demons who dont hate or like humans but are neutral to them? > > 2. Can a demon grow a liking to a human if they for some reason like their personality or something about them? > > 3. If knowing a demons name gives you power over it, why would they willingly show you their name? > > I’m asking this because during my attunement for Reiki I saw his name in my mind. I know this demon I just didn’t know his name. I know what he looks like because he showed himself to me when I was learning witchcraft. I don’t do witchcraft anymore. My Reiki teacher told me if he showed up during attunement that means I should work with him but she doesn’t know anything about demonology. I’ve read about people who work with demons but I don’t understand. > > I believe in my past life I summoned this demon and I fell in love with him. I have talked to archangel Michael and he told me I could use that feeling of love I felt for him to help people. I literally felt how much I loved him so much I even cried and I don’t cry a lot. This demon I believe oppressed me for 15 years, and he told me he did it to see if I was still strong as he knew me to be. Even though I know this I can’t hate him. I mean I am who I am today because of the shit I’ve been through and I wouldn’t change that for anything. I think your problem stems from what you thought was witchcraft, as you have mentioned demons I think your involvement was with black magic/Satanism. You do not have to be a Christian but a good start would be to contact a Roman Catholic Priest who will be able to guide you and pray for you (stay away from sect’s as they can have a hidden agenda) Michael’s advice to you is to remove your love from the demon and use it to help people in need, another reason for contacting your local Catholic church is they always need volunteers I am a Christian but not a Roman Catholic, I am guiding you towards them because I think that they will have a better understanding of your situation also they are a established church ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonology-are-there-demons-who-do-whatever-they-want-bad-and-good/766844/111 "2016-09-28T13:18:26Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > I can’t cite it, but there are some universalists who hold that even Satan will make his peace with God before the end of all things. The end of all things? If we take the bible at its word, revelations makes it pretty clear that Satan and those in league with him are damned to hell for all eternity. Is there some period after eternity when reconciliation occurs? Or are you saying that we are accepting revelations as one of many possible eventualities? Or that revelations were misinterpreted somewhere along the line? If God had omniscience, then wouldn’t revelations be a forecast of the future? > [@](#): > > Most obvious problem is difficulty in communication. Tell me how to talk to a demon, and I’ll readily make an effort to get him to reform. The same way that we communicate with angels. Through prayer. We may not understand angels and demons under normal circumstances (the gift of tongues?) but they can understand us and make themselves understood to us. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonology-are-there-demons-who-do-whatever-they-want-bad-and-good/766844/112 "2016-09-28T13:27:31Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > It’s notable that the witchcraft hysteria of the Early Modern period was more concentrated in northern European, Protestant countries. The Catholic Inquisitions were more concerned with heresy, as has been pointed out. Pure idle speculation, but I wonder if the Catholic countries were slightly more resistant to witchcraft-panic, because they’d maintained a tradition of a feminine spirituality in the cult of the Virgin Mary. Lutherans and Anglicans (and maybe a few other early offshoots of Catholicism) worship the Virgin Mary as the most virtuous of all saints. The lack of witch trials in catholic countries is probably the result of a great folk tradition of witchcraft (or what was mistaken for witchcraft) in some parts of Europe and not others OR a sanguine attitude towards what might have appeared to be witchcraft in the Catholic church which seemed ready to adopt local customs and folklore to make Catholicism an easier sell to the locals. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonology-are-there-demons-who-do-whatever-they-want-bad-and-good/766844/113 "2016-09-28T13:57:42Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > The lack of witch trials in catholic countries is probably the result of a great folk tradition of witchcraft (or what was mistaken for witchcraft) in some parts of Europe and not others OR a sanguine attitude towards what might have appeared to be witchcraft in the Catholic church which seemed ready to adopt local customs and folklore to make Catholicism an easier sell to the locals. I think it’s more that the catholic church had established channels and procedures to deal with claims of witchcraft. Compared to vigilante style, more ad hoc measures by self-appointed experts among the protestants. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonology-are-there-demons-who-do-whatever-they-want-bad-and-good/766844/114 "2016-09-28T14:28:24Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Lutherans and Anglicans (and maybe a few other early offshoots of Catholicism) worship the Virgin Mary as the most virtuous of all saints. Nitpick: _venerate_, not worship. Veneration translates Greek “Doulia”, worship translates “Latreia”. It would be fairer to say _some_ Anglicans venerate the Virgin Mary similarly to Catholics, and possibly also some Lutherans too (not sure about them). Anglicans vary quite a bit in this as among other things. (And the Catholic critique of Anglicanism is _to this degree_ correct, that 16th century Anglicanism was much more “Protestant” than it is today, and that the Anglo-Catholic movement that reintroduced things like Marian doctrines was largely a 19th century revival). ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonology-are-there-demons-who-do-whatever-they-want-bad-and-good/766844/115 "2016-09-28T14:37:03Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > Nitpick: _venerate_, not worship. Veneration translates Greek “Doulia”, worship translates “Latreia”. > > It would be fairer to say _some_ Anglicans venerate the Virgin Mary similarly to Catholics, and possibly also some Lutherans too (not sure about them). Anglicans vary quite a bit in this as among other things. (And the Catholic critique of Anglicanism is _to this degree_ correct, that 16th century Anglicanism was much more “Protestant” than it is today, and that the Anglo-Catholic movement that reintroduced things like Marian doctrines was largely a 19th century revival). Dictionary says that [“worship”](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/worship) and [“venerate”](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/venerate) are synonyms. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonology-are-there-demons-who-do-whatever-they-want-bad-and-good/766844/116 "2016-09-28T14:45:30Z")
In the case of Spain and her domains, the biggest witch trials took place in locations where the inquisitors were civilians, not depending on the Church. Apparently it is much more offensive to be a woman living without a man if your property will be split among your accusers. Said locations were Navarre (specifically, a small village called Zugarramurdi) and Catalonia. [The people in charge of the Zugarramurdi museum](http://www.turismo.navarra.es/eng/organice-viaje/recurso.aspx?o=4040) must have fallen asleep in History class, as they think 1610 was the Middle Ages. Warning: PDF. [This article](http://www.academia.edu/9704019/The_Catalan_Church_and_the_Witch_Hunt_the_Royal_Survey_of_1621) about the witchhunts in Catalonia begins with an interesting paragraph: > [@cited article](#): > > One of the principal consequences of the Zugarramurdi trial in the kingdom of Navarre was that the Spanish Inquisition adopted an attitude of active opposition to the witch hunt (Henningsen 1980). This was true of the tribunal’s behavior everywhere that it acted in the Hispanic kingdoms of the Catholic Monarchy, as well as in Sardinia and Sicily, with a central authority its Supreme Council. Nevertheless, the 1610 edit of grace, pardoning all the accused, and the 1614 edict of silence, ordering inquisitors to temporarily halt any new local trials, almost coincided with the beginning of the harshest years of the witch hunt in Catalonia. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonology-are-there-demons-who-do-whatever-they-want-bad-and-good/766844/117 "2016-09-28T15:06:20Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Dictionary says that [“worship”](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/worship) and [“venerate”](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/venerate) are synonyms. In the context of catholic Christian (RCC, Eastern Orthodox, Anglican, etc) theology, though, veneration/doulia and worship/latreia do refer to distinct notions. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonology-are-there-demons-who-do-whatever-they-want-bad-and-good/766844/118 "2016-09-28T15:08:52Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > In the context of catholic Christian (meaning RCC, Orthodox, Anglican) theology, though, veneration/doulia and worship/latreia do refer to distinct notions. And those two distinct notions are…? A lot of us aren’t learned Biblical scholars. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonology-are-there-demons-who-do-whatever-they-want-bad-and-good/766844/119 "2016-09-28T15:12:28Z")
Veneration is a human level of reverence while worship is a level left to god. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonology-are-there-demons-who-do-whatever-they-want-bad-and-good/766844/120 "2016-09-28T15:20:55Z")
And while one is supposed to treat the images with care (even if only because they are delicate), in the end they’re objects. Dressing them up is an adult-acceptable version of playing with dolls; a Spanish expression to indicate that an unmarried woman is too old to be marrigeable is _se ha quedado para vestir santos_, all she’s going to be clothing is (images of) saints. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonology-are-there-demons-who-do-whatever-they-want-bad-and-good/766844.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonology-are-there-demons-who-do-whatever-they-want-bad-and-good/766844.md?page=7)