# Demons aren't making you take drugs **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 26, 2010, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demons-arent-making-you-take-drugs/533920 "2010-03-26T19:04:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demons-arent-making-you-take-drugs/533920/21 "2010-03-26T21:20:53Z")
Yeah, it’s a weaselly way to not take responsibility for your own actions. I’d rather they just say: hey, we’re all human. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demons-arent-making-you-take-drugs/533920/22 "2010-03-26T21:26:36Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Yeah, it’s a weaselly way to not take responsibility for your own actions. I’d rather they just say: hey, we’re all human. Except for those of us who are demons. Or weasels. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demons-arent-making-you-take-drugs/533920/23 "2010-03-26T21:30:03Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Yeah, it’s a weaselly way to not take responsibility for your own actions. I’d rather they just say: hey, we’re all human. Oh, bullshit. It’s a METAPHOR. Saying that someone has personal demons means that she or he possesses psychological factors that impel her or him to destructive or unpleasant behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demons-arent-making-you-take-drugs/533920/24 "2010-03-26T21:30:33Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Oh, bullshit. It’s a METAPHOR. What’s a metaphor? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demons-arent-making-you-take-drugs/533920/25 "2010-03-26T21:32:50Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > What’s a metaphor? A meta is for speaking colorfully. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demons-arent-making-you-take-drugs/533920/26 "2010-03-26T21:32:59Z")
What’s anything for, really? ps Skald, get over to Mello, ya traitor… oh, hang on! Cancel that. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demons-arent-making-you-take-drugs/533920/27 "2010-03-26T21:35:48Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > What’s anything for, really? War! Huh! Good God, y’all - what is it good for? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demons-arent-making-you-take-drugs/533920/28 "2010-03-26T22:02:29Z")
> [@](#): > > Three words for the OP: > > What. > > The. > > Fuck. I thought I was pretty clear. I feel that using demons as a metaphor for addiction is a bad idea. We conceptualize complex things by metaphor and the metaphors can then direct how we address those things. I disagree with what BrainGlutton and cwthree said about demons being internal. Every idea of a demon I’ve ever heard of considers them to be some external cause. They’re like a germ or a poison - something that enters your body and then causes you harm. But demons and germs and poisons don’t spontaneously appear in your body - they always come from outside. But an addiction is not like that. The drug may be external but the addiction is internal. Nothing entered you and made you an addict. And nothing will ever leave you and remove the addiction. You can rid yourself of germs or poisons or demons and they’re gone. But you can’t rid yourself of an addiction - it’s always there because it’s a part of you. All you can do is keep it under control. The harm of using the wrong metaphor is that it helps you ignore that reality. An addict who thinks his addiction has an external cause can tell himself he’s removed the cause and he now no longer has an addiction. _“It was the stress of that lousy job that was making me drink too much. Now that I don’t work there anymore, it’s okay if I have an occasional drink. I’ll be able to stop after a few now.”_ ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demons-arent-making-you-take-drugs/533920/29 "2010-03-26T22:15:45Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Nothing entered you and made you an addict. Except the drugs, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demons-arent-making-you-take-drugs/533920/30 "2010-03-26T22:16:27Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Yeah, it’s a weaselly way to not take responsibility for your own actions. I’d rather they just say: hey, we’re all human. Personally, I just say “Sorry, I fucked up”. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demons-arent-making-you-take-drugs/533920/31 "2010-03-26T22:48:21Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I thought I was pretty clear. I feel that using demons as a metaphor for addiction is a bad idea. We conceptualize complex things by metaphor and the metaphors can then direct how we address those things. > > I disagree with what BrainGlutton and cwthree said about demons being internal. Every idea of a demon I’ve ever heard of considers them to be some external cause. They’re like a germ or a poison - something that enters your body and then causes you harm. But demons and germs and poisons don’t spontaneously appear in your body - they always come from outside. > > But an addiction is not like that. The drug may be external but the addiction is internal. Nothing entered you and made you an addict. > > And nothing will ever leave you and remove the addiction. You can rid yourself of germs or poisons or demons and they’re gone. But you can’t rid yourself of an addiction - it’s always there because it’s a part of you. All you can do is keep it under control. > > The harm of using the wrong metaphor is that it helps you ignore that reality. An addict who thinks his addiction has an external cause can tell himself he’s removed the cause and he now no longer has an addiction. _“It was the stress of that lousy job that was making me drink too much. Now that I don’t work there anymore, it’s okay if I have an occasional drink. I’ll be able to stop after a few now.”_ You’re getting really worked up over nothing, dude. And I say that as a rabid\* atheist who opposes foisting off blame/credit to supernatural enties. Of course, I only mind when that’s what’s _actually happening._ Seriously, you should mellow out. I think there are things you can take for that. - metaphorically speaking ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demons-arent-making-you-take-drugs/533920/32 "2010-03-26T22:49:39Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Personally, I just say “Sorry, I fucked up”. But, did you really fuck in an upward direction? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demons-arent-making-you-take-drugs/533920/33 "2010-03-26T22:49:58Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I disagree with what BrainGlutton and cwthree said about demons being internal. Every idea of a demon I’ve ever heard of considers them to be some external cause. They’re like a germ or a poison - something that enters your body and then causes you harm. But demons and germs and poisons don’t spontaneously appear in your body - they always come from outside. Well, add me to the posters who feel the phrase “personal demons” conjure up an internal, not external, struggle. I have never thought the phrase “battling with personal demons” had any implication of a shift of responsibility to forces from without. I think you’re overthinking the phrase. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demons-arent-making-you-take-drugs/533920/34 "2010-03-26T22:51:00Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > _Elvis_ comes from the same root as _elf_. Graceland is actually a failed attempt at recreating Lothlorien. So Lothlorien is decorated in 70’s Kitsch? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demons-arent-making-you-take-drugs/533920/35 "2010-03-26T23:31:20Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > On the other hand, fighting your personal _Elvis_ is perfectly possible. > > Watch out for him. He’s an evil sumbitch. That’s Jesse Garon Presley. Elvis is pure and righteous and good. His evil twin, on the other hand… Died at birth, my ass. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demons-arent-making-you-take-drugs/533920/36 "2010-03-26T23:36:56Z")
So when does **ivan askitov** come along to ask “But what if they are?” ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demons-arent-making-you-take-drugs/533920/37 "2010-03-27T00:21:47Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I thought I was pretty clear. I feel that using demons as a metaphor for addiction is a bad idea. We conceptualize complex things by metaphor and the metaphors can then direct how we address those things. For one thing, it’s not a metaphor, it’s an idiom. An idiom that’s understood by (almost) everyone to mean inner issues. Second, do you really think that Corey Haim is currently using that idiom to escape the personal responsibility of going to rehab so that he can make the much lazier choice of being dead? (Hint: He didn’t say that about himself.) Seriously, dude, have a little respect for the dead instead of turning this into a screed about how this country is falling apart. ---
**Author:** ![llcoolbj77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/eb9ed0/32.png) [@llcoolbj77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/llcoolbj77)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demons-arent-making-you-take-drugs/533920/38 "2010-03-27T00:25:47Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > I heard when he died, the inner demons came RIPPING out of his chest and started WHALING on the external demons, and it turned into this huge-ass brawl where they were like, stabbing the FUCK out of each other with their pitchforks or whatever, and throwing fireballs and shit. I wasn’t there, but I know this dude who was and he said it was EPIC. Awesome! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demons-arent-making-you-take-drugs/533920/39 "2010-03-27T02:00:48Z")
> [@](#): > > Except the drugs, anyway. Drugs don’t turn people into addicts. Some people are able to use drugs or alcohol casually and stop whenever they want. Other people use the same drugs and alcohol and can’t stop. > [@](#): > > You’re getting really worked up over nothing, dude. And I say that as a rabid\* atheist who opposes foisting off blame/credit to supernatural enties. In case you missed all of the several times I said it, I understand that demons was being used as a metaphor not a literal reference to supernatural beings. > [@](#): > > For one thing, it’s not a metaphor, it’s an idiom. Most idioms are metaphors. Like this one. An idiom is usually just a metaphor that’s entered common usage but hasn’t reached the point of bing a cliche yet. > [@](#): > > Seriously, dude, have a little respect for the dead instead of turning this into a screed about how this country is falling apart. And here, I have no idea what you’re talking about. What on earth does my saying demons are a poorly chosen metaphor for drug addiction have to do with the state of the nation? And how is it disrepectful of anyone, living or dead? ---
**Author:** ![Apex\_Rogers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@Apex\_Rogers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apex_Rogers)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demons-arent-making-you-take-drugs/533920/40 "2010-03-27T02:11:43Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I thought I was pretty clear. I feel that using demons as a metaphor for addiction is a bad idea. We conceptualize complex things by metaphor and the metaphors can then direct how we address those things. > > I disagree with what BrainGlutton and cwthree said about demons being internal. Every idea of a demon I’ve ever heard of considers them to be some external cause. They’re like a germ or a poison - something that enters your body and then causes you harm. But demons and germs and poisons don’t spontaneously appear in your body - they always come from outside. > > But an addiction is not like that. The drug may be external but the addiction is internal. Nothing entered you and made you an addict. > > And nothing will ever leave you and remove the addiction. You can rid yourself of germs or poisons or demons and they’re gone. But you can’t rid yourself of an addiction - it’s always there because it’s a part of you. All you can do is keep it under control. > > The harm of using the wrong metaphor is that it helps you ignore that reality. An addict who thinks his addiction has an external cause can tell himself he’s removed the cause and he now no longer has an addiction. _“It was the stress of that lousy job that was making me drink too much. Now that I don’t work there anymore, it’s okay if I have an occasional drink. I’ll be able to stop after a few now.”_ Analogies and metaphors are hardly ever perfect. I think what’s happening here is that you are looking into it a bit more deeply than it is intended. Your idea of “demons” means a strictly internal cause, but don’t you think that people are also referring to internal causes, such as a brain chemistry imbalance or other psychological disorder, susceptibility to addictive substances, etc. If the person takes medication to fix the depression that leads them to drinking, has the “demon” been removed? If you want to take the demon part so literally, couldn’t the demon be the genetics this person inherited? I just find this whole rant to be a needless exercise, since you’re basically taking figurative language too literally. E: And to bring it back to the point in the OP, this type of phrasing is meant to be a politically correct way of saying that the guy was possibly depressed, prone to rage, etc. Saying it is “personal demons” is a euphemism used instead of listing out in detail the exact psychological problems he had, if they even knew. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demons-arent-making-you-take-drugs/533920.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demons-arent-making-you-take-drugs/533920.md?page=3)