# Demonstrations as a tactic for large-scale change **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 24, 2018, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonstrations-as-a-tactic-for-large-scale-change/811138 "2018-03-24T23:42:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2018, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonstrations-as-a-tactic-for-large-scale-change/811138/61 "2018-03-28T15:48:02Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Applying such language to drink-size regulations is ridiculous hyperbole. It’s much more reasonable for stop-and-frisk, but why didn’t you use that example? Is it because the NRA has never condemned stop and frisk (or any similar policies), from what I can find, and by my reading online, most prominent 2nd amendment supporters also supported stop and frisk? Do you believe that mayors who are with you on the 2nd amendment but support policies like stop and frisk can reasonably be characterized as psuedo-fascist or authoritarian, and if so, do you oppose such policies as strongly as you oppose Bloomberg’s positions on gun control? Drink size is a matter of principle, but it was the first thing that came to mind. I have no idea how others feel about stop and frisk, but most gun rights advocates I know are very strong supporters of the fourth amendment as well. Stop and frisk is ‘papers please’ authoritarianism and it’s bullshit wherever it’s practiced. Anyways, this is a digression from the demonstration topic so I’ll leave it at that. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2018, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonstrations-as-a-tactic-for-large-scale-change/811138/62 "2018-03-28T16:02:05Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > The most informative piece of your post was the admission of where you get your news from. Do you also have a problem with C-Span? > **[Student and Activist David Hogg on Gun Policy and Safety](https://www.c-span.org/video/?442993-4%2Fstudent-activist-david-hogg-gun-policy-safety)** > > The day before the "March for Our Lives" rallies across the U.S., Axios hosted a series of conversations about gun policy and safety. In this portion, Axios Executive Editor Mike Allen spoke with activist David Hogg, a student from Marjory Stoneman... The crazy backpack comment is at 9:28 in the video. You’re right about one thing, though. I shouldn’t have used the link that I did; I should have linked directly to c-span in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2018, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonstrations-as-a-tactic-for-large-scale-change/811138/63 "2018-03-30T15:34:17Z")
Well, all I can say is they are, indeed, hitting a nerve. I’m 46. I’ve never owned a gun (my dad did and I plinked as a teenager). I always viewed gun hoarders as extremists. I’ve always viewed hunting as kind of weird (I can see it’s necessity, but can’t see _enjoying_ it). Never hunted, never will. So all that stuff about getting the culture to change, to view guns as “weird”, I was already pretty much there. Not to the point where I thought they should take away other people’s guns, but I did view gun owners as “others”. But trotting these kids out to tons of media exposure, who are absolutely immune to _any_ criticism, and having them go to the jugular on the NRA (when, in this case, it was CLEARLY was a huge lapse in law enforcement), really, really, rubs me the wrong way. And I think the “Oh, no, we don’t want to take your guns, we just want sensible gun laws” angle is COMPLETE horse shit. The few people openly calling for the repeal of the 2A? I respect them, because at least they’re being honest. I bought an NRA membership for the first time, and am heavily investigating gun options. As far as I’m concerned, David Hogg might as well be an honorary spokesman for the NRA. Imo, Emma Gonzales is much more effective at getting the message across, but they keep wanting to showcase Hogg, and I suspect that’s because he’s a white male. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2018, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonstrations-as-a-tactic-for-large-scale-change/811138/64 "2018-03-30T16:48:51Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > I bought an NRA membership for the first time, and am heavily investigating gun options. As far as I’m concerned, David Hogg might as well be an honorary spokesman for the NRA. Imo, Emma Gonzales is much more effective at getting the message across, but they keep wanting to showcase Hogg, and I suspect that’s because he’s a white male. If you believe there is even a chance of banning all guns, why would you waste your money buying one? You’ll just have to turn it in. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2018, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonstrations-as-a-tactic-for-large-scale-change/811138/65 "2018-03-30T16:50:01Z")
Based on my reading of your posts for the last few weeks, **Ashtura** , I’m shocked that you weren’t already there. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2018, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonstrations-as-a-tactic-for-large-scale-change/811138/66 "2018-03-30T17:22:54Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > But trotting these kids out to tons of media exposure, who are absolutely immune to _any_ criticism, and having them go to the jugular on the NRA (when, in this case, it was CLEARLY was a huge lapse in law enforcement), really, really, rubs me the wrong way. And I think the “Oh, no, we don’t want to take your guns, we just want sensible gun laws” angle is COMPLETE horse shit. Why? For one thing, much of the Never Again movement has been directed not at guns, but at the NRA and politicians that are on the payroll. It’s rather difficult to honestly miss that aspect of the movement. In that regard, the Never Again protests have been immensely, immensely successful so far. The public has become much more immediately conscious of notable politicians in thrall to the NRA and the NRA’s hold on politics. I am quite unconvinced the recent story about the NRA taking Russian money to influence elections would have gotten as much play as it has had the NRA not already been pushed into an unflattering spotlight. ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2018, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonstrations-as-a-tactic-for-large-scale-change/811138/67 "2018-03-30T17:46:04Z")
> [@](#): > > based on my reading of your posts for the last few weeks, Ashtura, I’m shocked that you weren’t already there. I got my NRA totebag today, and I joined about a month ago. I’ve probably done dozens of hours hours of research into guns in the last month. I don’t plunk down hundreds of dollars on something without knowing my shit. My main obstacle is justifying it in the budget at the moment. If I wasn’t going on a vacation soon, I’d probably have one by now. I don’t expect that to happen till year end honestly, and perhaps by then my interest will have faded. I certainly hope the media frenzy has died down by then. > [@Slash1972](#): > > If you believe there is even a chance of banning all guns, why would you waste your money buying one? You’ll just have to turn it in. One, I don’t want them to ban _any_ currently legal gun. I already made a post about why I don’t think banning AR-15’s will be effectual in preventing mass shootings, which, surprising to me, got very little pushback around here. [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=850167](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=850167) At the moment, am not worried about having to turn it in. That’s obviously not going to be phase one. I _do_ think my state has a good chance of following California, NY & co. lead in the near future however (just buying ammo will be prohibitively expensive in CA, for example), and I don’t want that. If the NRA can help out in that area, good. Once they can get a majority of states on that tract, at some point I do think a repeal of the 2A is possible. I don’t want that to happen because I think all hell with break loose, with loss of life that makes school shootings look like child’s play. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2018, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonstrations-as-a-tactic-for-large-scale-change/811138/68 "2018-03-30T18:10:08Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > I got my NRA totebag today, and I joined about a month ago. I’ve probably done dozens of hours hours of research into guns in the last month. I don’t plunk down hundreds of dollars on something without knowing my shit. My main obstacle is justifying it in the budget at the moment. If I wasn’t going on a vacation soon, I’d probably have one by now. I don’t expect that to happen till year end honestly, and perhaps by then my interest will have faded. I certainly hope the media frenzy has died down by then. > > One, I don’t want them to ban _any_ currently legal gun. I already made a post about why I don’t think banning AR-15’s will be effectual in preventing mass shootings, which, surprising to me, got very little pushback around here. > > [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=850167](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=850167) > At the moment, am not worried about having to turn it in. That’s obviously not going to be phase one. I _do_ think my state has a good chance of following California, NY & co. lead in the near future however (just buying ammo will be prohibitively expensive in CA, for example), and I don’t want that. If the NRA can help out in that area, good. Once they can get a majority of states on that tract, at some point I do think a repeal of the 2A is possible. I don’t want that to happen because I think all hell with break loose, with loss of life that makes school shootings look like child’s play. So you joined before most of the recent advocacy by Hogg, and yet you’re blaming his tactics or presence? That seems odd. But overall I think Hogg and Gonzalez and the other recent advocates for various regulations have been enormously positive, so even “we” lose a few Trump apologists who weren’t very well inclined to the cause anyway, that will still be an enormous positive influence overall. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2018, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonstrations-as-a-tactic-for-large-scale-change/811138/69 "2018-03-30T18:17:55Z")
Make sure you include the cost of storage in your purchase. Even small quick access safes are not inexpensive. ---
**Author:** ![Wolf333](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf333/32/3460_2.png) [@Wolf333](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolf333)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2018, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonstrations-as-a-tactic-for-large-scale-change/811138/70 "2018-03-30T18:18:46Z")
Well, that’s one of the dumbest ever reasons to buy a gun. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2018, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonstrations-as-a-tactic-for-large-scale-change/811138/71 "2018-03-30T18:36:35Z")
> [@Wolf333](#): > > Well, that’s one of the dumbest ever reasons to buy a gun. It’s sure gonna show those kids! ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2018, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonstrations-as-a-tactic-for-large-scale-change/811138/72 "2018-03-30T19:08:03Z")
> [@](#): > > So you joined before most of the recent advocacy by Hogg, and yet you’re blaming his tactics or presence? That seems odd. The NRA hate fest really took off after the CNN town hall, about a week after the shooting, when everyone was becoming aware of the gross missteps of law enforcement before the shooting, and a little before it was proven the deputy didn’t even attempt to engage the shooter. But, hell, lets just blame the NRA for the shooting. I bought the membership about a week after that. Hogg’s disgusting demagoguery, and the constant coverage of it (why do only anti-NRA parkland students get press anyway?) has only confirmed every penny of that membership was merited. BTW, if every cent of that membership went into the “back pocket” of a politician (preferably from my state), GOOD. I hope it does. > [@](#): > > Well, that’s one of the dumbest ever reasons to buy a gun. Your opinion of my hypothetical gun purchase is noted. I’ll be sure to remember “Wolf333s” opinion on the matter when making my possible purchase. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2018, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonstrations-as-a-tactic-for-large-scale-change/811138/73 "2018-03-30T19:14:12Z")
> [@Wolf333](#): > > Well, that’s one of the dumbest ever reasons to buy a gun. [MODERATING] Back off. In fact, everyone is reminded that this thred is about the viability of demonstrations as a vehicle for change, not about some individual’s take on buying a gun. RickJay Moderator ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2018, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonstrations-as-a-tactic-for-large-scale-change/811138/74 "2018-03-30T19:23:31Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > The NRA hate fest really took off after the CNN town hall, about a week after the shooting, when everyone was becoming aware of the gross missteps of law enforcement before the shooting, and a little before it was proven the deputy didn’t even attempt to engage the shooter. But, hell, lets just blame the NRA for the shooting. I bought the membership about a week after that. Hogg’s disgusting demagoguery, and the constant coverage of it (why do only anti-NRA parkland students get press anyway?) has only confirmed every penny of that membership was merited. BTW, if every cent of that membership went into the “back pocket” of a politician (preferably from my state), GOOD. I hope it does. How dare that kid speak up and tell people what he thought? Especially when he was critical of the NRA, which, after all, never demagogues or spreads misinformation or fear! That poor, poor very wealthy organization! ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2018, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonstrations-as-a-tactic-for-large-scale-change/811138/75 "2018-03-30T19:27:17Z")
> [@](#): > > How dare that kid speak up and tell people what he thought? He can say whatever he wants. That doesn’t (or shouldn’t) make him immune to criticism. You step into the spotlight, you deserve scrutiny, at least in what you say. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2018, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonstrations-as-a-tactic-for-large-scale-change/811138/76 "2018-03-30T19:29:11Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > He can say whatever he wants. That doesn’t (or shouldn’t) make him immune to criticism. You step into the spotlight, you deserve scrutiny, at least in what you say. Certainly. And when you call a kid who survived a shooting, and then speaks up and criticizes some other folks and sincerely proposes some policies, whether or not you agree with his point of view, “disgusting” and “demagogue”, you’re probably gonna get criticized (and/or mocked) too. If you simply said you disagreed with him, then I doubt you’d be mocked. ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2018, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonstrations-as-a-tactic-for-large-scale-change/811138/77 "2018-03-30T19:52:09Z")
> [@](#): > > Certainly. And when you call a kid who survived a shooting, and then speaks up and criticizes some other folks and sincerely proposes some policies, whether or not you agree with his point of view, “disgusting” and “demagogue”, you’re probably gonna get criticized (and/or mocked) too. If you simply said you disagreed with him, then I doubt you’d be mocked. I don’t care about being mocked or criticized, not by some anonymous people on the internet anyway. I also don’t think surviving a shooting makes gives one expertise on anything, other than surviving a shooting. But he can say whatever he wants. This is America. I, personally, don’t simply disagree with him, I am revolted by some of the things he’s said. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2018, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonstrations-as-a-tactic-for-large-scale-change/811138/78 "2018-03-30T20:13:10Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > I don’t care about being mocked or criticized, not by some anonymous people on the internet anyway. I’d presume Hogg doesn’t either. If he did, he wouldn’t be so outspoken. > [@](#): > > I also don’t think surviving a shooting makes gives one expertise on anything, other than surviving a shooting. But he can say whatever he wants. This is America. I, personally, don’t simply disagree with him, I am revolted by some of the things he’s said. If you feel nauseous, I recommend ginger. It’s tough out there in the world. If those words revolt you, I’d hate to see how you’d be affected if you learned of all this crazy gun violence! ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2018, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonstrations-as-a-tactic-for-large-scale-change/811138/79 "2018-03-30T20:30:46Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > If you feel nauseous, I recommend ginger. It’s tough out there in the world. If those words revolt you, I’d hate to see how you’d be affected if you learned of all this crazy gun violence! 😕:smack::rolleyes: Do you have any other home remedies? Let’s keep this thread going! ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2018, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonstrations-as-a-tactic-for-large-scale-change/811138/80 "2018-03-30T20:36:49Z")
I expect we’re getting close to thin ice, so I’ll refrain from continuing on this line. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonstrations-as-a-tactic-for-large-scale-change/811138.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demonstrations-as-a-tactic-for-large-scale-change/811138.md?page=5)