# Dems challenging election - don't they care? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 7, 2016, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-challenging-election-dont-they-care/774109 "2016-12-07T13:58:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-challenging-election-dont-they-care/774109/61 "2016-12-07T20:57:49Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > I’m gonna go find your posts from the aftermath of the 2012 election. Your tune has changed completely. I can’t wait. Start a new thread on what I said after 2012. If I don’t hear from you in a few days on this subject, I’ll PM you and remind you in this thread about the research you promised. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-challenging-election-dont-they-care/774109/62 "2016-12-07T21:05:36Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Other than random people on message boards and in blog comments sections, who are “the Democrats who are using all means to overturn the election result”? Hillary? Nancy Pelosi? Chuck Schumer? > > FWIW, the recounts originate with Jill Stein and the Green Party, not with the Dems. I have to keep repeating myself but OK. I am not talking about the recounts. I should have emphasized that in the OP but I did make it clear in a subsequent post. I am specifically referring to those Democrats who are challenging the result in federal court and those Democrats who are harassing the Electors. These have nothing to do with the Greens. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-challenging-election-dont-they-care/774109/63 "2016-12-07T21:09:31Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Really. And you know this because? > > Will they ignore sanctions against North Korea? Build more islands and fortify them? Increase their offensive space based capabilities? Increase their military spending? Is any of this really in the best interest of the US? > > What about your iPhone, Apple is screwed without China, but China can build a knockoff in a heartbeat. Have we fallen so far as a nation that we can’t make a phone? We used to put men on the moon you know. > [@](#): > > Trump’s war on China trade will destroy any economic recovery in the US, probably world wide. Trump’s ego thinks he’ll win against the Asian mindset. Ain’t gonna happen. > > I think you better rethink this, you’re not seeing all there is to it. What is the “Asian” mindset?😕 ---
**Author:** ![Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Some_Call_Me.Tim)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-challenging-election-dont-they-care/774109/64 "2016-12-07T21:11:59Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Like it is? Does he ever tell the truth? He claimed that he was going to win so much that we would sick of all the winning. He fulfilled this promise on election night. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-challenging-election-dont-they-care/774109/65 "2016-12-07T21:25:33Z")
I think you’re failing to take into account the amplifying nature of social media. Harassment campaigns are incredibly easy to whip up, and if you think this is mostly liberals harassing innocent conservatives, you haven’t been paying attention, have you? If you’re talking about court challenges, maybe you could be more specific? Like, which court challenges are frivolous, and who exactly is behind them? “Democrats”, I guess. Do the actions of one person who holds a particular political viewpoint reflect badly on each and every other person who also shares that one particular political viewpoint? Hitler was a vegetarian, right? If you want to blame “Democrats” for one high-strung college sophomore’s social media meltdown, then would it be fair to blame Republicans as a group for the actions of any alt-right nutjob who shoots up a church or screams Heil Trump? I don’t think you’d accept that one guy giving a Nazi salute to Donald Trump reflects on you personally, would you? Or is that one guy just doing openly what all you conservatives are thinking secretly? ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-challenging-election-dont-they-care/774109/66 "2016-12-07T21:27:46Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > What is the “Asian” mindset?😕 Maybe something like this? [SoftBank’s CEO shows how corporations can manipulate Trump.](http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2016/12/07/softbank_s_ceo_shows_how_corporations_can_manipulate_trump.html) All you have to do is kiss Trump’s ass, and he’ll hand you the keys to the store. Hope you like asian-style crony capitalism, because that’s the new game in town. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-challenging-election-dont-they-care/774109/67 "2016-12-07T21:29:35Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > What is the “Asian” mindset?😕 Obviously, Trump’s Hairpiece Cheeto style is stronger than their Drunken Monkey style. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-challenging-election-dont-they-care/774109/68 "2016-12-07T21:30:57Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Have we fallen so far as a nation that we can’t make a phone? We used to put men on the moon you know. Yes. I’ll Google it for you. > **[Are any smartphones not made in China?](https://www.cnet.com/culture/are-any-smartphones-not-made-in-china/)** > > You can find a phone that's not manufactured in the People's Republic--if you're willing to hunt. > [@octopus](#): > > What is the “Asian” mindset?😕 I Googled “Asian mindset” and…About 822,000 results (0.38 seconds). I’m sure one will explain it if you really want to know. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-challenging-election-dont-they-care/774109/69 "2016-12-07T21:32:03Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Not so. > > Pentagon Reports On China’s Satellite Killers > _The report discusses three apparent tests of Chinese anti-satellite systems (ASAT), not just the well-known two. Everyone knows about China’s 2007 test when it destroyed its own defunct satellite, scattering debris that continues to orbit the planet and threaten space assets of every country. A fair number of people know that in 2014, China conducted what the Pentagon called a “successful” test of the same system, albeit without actually destroying a target, to everyone’s relief._ > [Pentagon Reports On China's Satellite Killers - Breaking Defense](http://breakingdefense.com/2015/05/pentagon-reports-on-chinas-satellite-killers/) > > How are you going to feel when they take out the GPS satellites? Communication satellites? Even your Satellite radio and tv satellites. > > _Chinese military doctrine sees counter-space weapons as “central” to what they call “informationalized” warfare,_ > > I think the Trump mindset that America is untouchable is another of his lunatic beliefs. Winning isn’t the issue, as clearly, there would be no winner. The issue is whether this clown has the temperament to avoid confrontations. Avoiding is how we win, not confrontation and old hamster-fisted’s rhetoric. > > ETA: > _Both Washington and Beijing are party to the Outer Space Treaty of 1967 (Beijing signed in 1983), although the treaty’s vague wording fails even to define “outer space.” Moreover, the treaty does not legally prohibit interference with other satellites or the use of non-nuclear ASATs._ > [China’s Offensive Space Capability.](https://www.stratfor.com/analysis/chinas-offensive-space-capability) > > There goes our spy satellites. Too bad the SR-71 is retired. I’m afraid you’ve missed the point entirely. The (admittedly nitpicky) claim that I challenged wasn’t about anti-space weapons, it was regarding “offensive space-based capabilities”. Space-based means “based in space”. Something like “Rods from God”, or a satellite orbiting Earth with some nuclear missiles onboard, or a Death Star. China has none of those things. A missile that sits in an armory in China until it is to be used to destroy our GPS satellites is not “space-based”. It’s based here on Earth, in China (or perhaps their half-assed carrier or a sub). It’s not a “space-based” weapon. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-challenging-election-dont-they-care/774109/70 "2016-12-07T21:35:24Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > Yes, but Crooked Hitlery had a private email server and is thus History’s Greatest Monster. And he promised to lock her up for unwittingly jeopardizing US secrets. Instead of locking her up, what does he do? He adds Gen. Petraeus to his list for SoS, even though the good General WILLINGLY gave away state secrets. Yes, Trump is as smart as a bag of wet mice. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-challenging-election-dont-they-care/774109/71 "2016-12-07T21:36:26Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > A missile that sits in an armory in China until it is to be used to destroy our GPS satellites is not “space-based”. It’s based here on Earth, in China (or perhaps their half-assed carrier or a sub). It’s not a “space-based” weapon. Unfortunately **Morganstern** quoted the wrong section of the story, but if you clicked the first link: > [@](#): > > But very few people know that in May 2013, China launched something else: a mysterious object that nearly reached geosynchronous orbit, the ultra-high altitude where crucial communications satellites hang out. Based on its trajectory, the system couldn’t have been intended to launch satellites or traditional research missions. Instead, the Pentagon report says and Weeden’s own analysis confirms, it could have been an anti-satellite system able to reach altitudes three times higher than the weapon tested in 2007 and 2014. So it seems plausible that your contention that China has no space-based anti-satellite weapons may not be correct, though it is not certain that you are incorrect, either. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-challenging-election-dont-they-care/774109/72 "2016-12-07T21:43:40Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I’m afraid you’ve missed the point entirely. The (admittedly nitpicky) claim that I challenged wasn’t about anti-space weapons, it was regarding “offensive space-based capabilities”. Space-based means “based in space”. Something like “Rods from God”, or a satellite orbiting Earth with some nuclear missiles onboard, or a Death Star. China has none of those things. A missile that sits in an armory in China until it is to be used to destroy our GPS satellites is not “space-based”. It’s based here on Earth, in China (or perhaps their half-assed carrier or a sub). It’s not a “space-based” weapon. Didn’t miss it at all Satellites are pretty much based in space. That’s sort of what their purpose is. Orbit the planet, wait to be called to serve, in space. They already proved their capability about 8 years ago when they used one to destroy one of their own satellites. They call them killer-satellites because, well, they kill other satellites. Do they have some on the ground waiting for launch? I wouldn’t doubt that. Here’s what CNN says about it. > **[War in space: Kamikazes, kidnapper satellites, lasers | CNN Politics](https://www.cnn.com/2016/11/29/politics/space-war-lasers-satellites-russia-china/)** > > It was May 2014 when a small team of American airmen monitoring a Russian satellite launch saw something they had never seen before. An object the team thought was a piece of debris from the launch suddenly came to life. Offensive? Absolutely. They are designed to destroy US, or our allies assets. Communication, navigation, spy satellites, etc. That’s why they are there. My point is the real winner in all this is the one who, through diplomacy, **AVOIDS** conflict, whether physical or verbal. Don’t piss off our neighbors, we have nothing to gain by it. Period. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-challenging-election-dont-they-care/774109/73 "2016-12-07T21:48:47Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Unfortunately **Morganstern** quoted the wrong section of the story, but if you clicked the first link: > > So it seems plausible that your contention that China has no space-based anti-satellite weapons may not be correct, though it is not certain that you are incorrect, either. You’re both wrong and it is certain (at least, as certain as we can be about this thing). If you guys would quit trying to cite a fairly half-assed BreakingDefense article and go directly to the source material, the actual Pentagon report ([PDF link here](http://www.defense.gov/Portals/1/Documents/pubs/2015_China_Military_Power_Report.pdf)), you’d read this about the third test: > [@](#): > > On May 13, 2013, China launched an object into space on a ballistic trajectory with a peak altitude above 30,000 km. This trajectory took it near geosynchronous orbit, where many nations maintain communications and earth-sensing satellites. Analysis of the launch determined that the booster was not on the appropriate trajectory to place objects in orbit and that no new satellites were released. The post-boost vehicle continued its ballistic trajectory and re-entered Earth orbit 9.5 hours after launch. There are, as far as we know, no Chinese weapons lurking out there in space, just waiting to be activated. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-challenging-election-dont-they-care/774109/74 "2016-12-07T22:15:21Z")
BTW, “… re-entered Earth _ **orbit** _ 9.5 hours after launch” is almost certainly a typo, given the context, and should probably be read as “… re-entered Earth _ **atmosphere** _ 9.5 hours after launch” ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-challenging-election-dont-they-care/774109/75 "2016-12-07T22:21:02Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > I have to keep repeating myself but OK. I am not talking about the recounts. I should have emphasized that in the OP but I did make it clear in a subsequent post. I am specifically referring to those Democrats who are challenging the result in federal court and those Democrats who are harassing the Electors. These have nothing to do with the Greens. Those people harassing Electors are obviously false flag operations. Or he’s lying. Where are the emails? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-challenging-election-dont-they-care/774109/76 "2016-12-07T22:30:55Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Nope. No clue what you’re talking about. It is a raunchy parody of the late '70s TV show? No. It was a hashtag used by liberals complaining about the refusal of the Senate to confirm Garland. The long-form version would be something like “eight Supreme Court justices is not enough, the Supreme Court needs nine justices to do their job properly. Confirm Garland!” [Here is an example](https://twitter.com/Shelster011/status/788787901358231553). ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2016, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-challenging-election-dont-they-care/774109/77 "2016-12-08T00:26:13Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > You’re both wrong and it is certain (at least, as certain as we can be about this thing). If you guys would quit trying to cite a fairly half-assed BreakingDefense article and go directly to the source material, the actual Pentagon report ([PDF link here](http://www.defense.gov/Portals/1/Documents/pubs/2015_China_Military_Power_Report.pdf)), you’d read this about the third test: > > There are, as far as we know, no Chinese weapons lurking out there in space, just waiting to be activated. At least you are putting some caveats in your statements now - “as far as you know,” etc. How sure are you about the peaceful intentions of Aolong-1? Like on a scale of one to ten. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2016, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-challenging-election-dont-they-care/774109/78 "2016-12-08T01:16:31Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > At least you are putting some caveats in your statements now - “as far as you know,” etc. How sure are you about the peaceful intentions of Aolong-1? Like on a scale of one to ten. [About a 9](http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Chinese_Space_Garbageman_is_not_a_Weapon_999.html) ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2016, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-challenging-election-dont-they-care/774109/79 "2016-12-08T01:37:50Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > Democrats as a whole have given up any pretense of caring about a fair election; they only care that Trump doesn’t win. My 7 year old grandson often demands ice cream for dinner claiming he’s old enough to make decisions for himself. Sometimes adults have to step in and do the right thing. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2016, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-challenging-election-dont-they-care/774109/80 "2016-12-08T01:48:36Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > At least you are putting some caveats in your statements now - “as far as you know,” etc. How sure are you about the peaceful intentions of Aolong-1? Like on a scale of one to ten. I gave up on discussing it with him when it was clear he didn’t understand how a object in a very high geosynchronous orbit could return to Earth orbit. He claimed it was a misprint. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-challenging-election-dont-they-care/774109.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-challenging-election-dont-they-care/774109.md?page=5)