# Dems challenging election - don't they care? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 7, 2016, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-challenging-election-dont-they-care/774109 "2016-12-07T13:58:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2016, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-challenging-election-dont-they-care/774109/81 "2016-12-08T01:49:09Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > The Democrats who are using all means to overturn the election result, don’t they care about the consequences if they succeed? Do you mean with recounts or with electors. There’s a world of difference. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2016, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-challenging-election-dont-they-care/774109/82 "2016-12-08T01:56:32Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > [About a 9](http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Chinese_Space_Garbageman_is_not_a_Weapon_999.html) You know that’s a totally different thing, right? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2016, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-challenging-election-dont-they-care/774109/83 "2016-12-08T01:58:42Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > You know that’s a totally different thing, right? What is? What are you talking about? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2016, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-challenging-election-dont-they-care/774109/84 "2016-12-08T02:23:59Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > [About a 9](http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Chinese_Space_Garbageman_is_not_a_Weapon_999.html) The idea that robotic arms have no military purpose isn’t generally accepted. > **[SITC Bulletin Analysis: China's Space Robotic Arms Programs](https://escholarship.org/uc/item/2js0c5r8)** > > Author(s): POLLPETER, Kevin ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2016, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-challenging-election-dont-they-care/774109/85 "2016-12-08T02:47:20Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > What makes you think a recount would identify tampering and not just simply recount the tampered votes again? Well, to be honest, I don’t know enough about how the recount is done to be confident…But I am quite confident that such tampering will not be found if the votes are not recounted. At least a recount opens up the possibility of discovering tampering. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2016, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-challenging-election-dont-they-care/774109/86 "2016-12-08T02:50:20Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > The idea that robotic arms have no military purpose isn’t generally accepted. > > [SITC Bulletin Analysis: China's Space Robotic Arms Programs](http://escholarship.org/uc/item/2js0c5r8?utm_content=buffere7503) I’d probably use a phrase like “is disputed” rather than “isn’t generally accepted”, but, point taken. Do you think the ISS, which has several damn-big robotic arms, can be fairly-characterized as an “offensive space-based capability”? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2016, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-challenging-election-dont-they-care/774109/87 "2016-12-08T02:58:34Z")
Seeing how the ISS has been operating so long in a manner capacity, with a high degree of transparency, I don’t think there is any reason to believe it is a weapon. Do you have any cites of people rising concerns about it being a weapon? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2016, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-challenging-election-dont-they-care/774109/88 "2016-12-08T03:04:03Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > I gave up on discussing it with him when it was clear he didn’t understand how a object in a very high geosynchronous orbit could return to Earth orbit. He claimed it was a misprint. There’s so much stupidity packed into this short post I hardly know where to begin. Ahhh, fuck it. I wrote a long post explaining how many ways you’re wrong, but my browser ate it. I’m not going to retype it right now, so let me just ask you plainly: Do you believe that the Chinese rocket launch on May 13, 2013 put / left any objects in orbit around Earth? Yes or no? And if yes, what do you believe those objects were? Satellite(s)? Debris? Traces of spent fuel? A Death Star? Something else? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2016, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-challenging-election-dont-they-care/774109/89 "2016-12-08T03:10:01Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Do you have any cites of people rising concerns about it being a weapon? No, and I’d be surprised if anyone has concerns about it being a weapon. Personally, I’d find such a definition absurd, despite the fact that it has multiple robotic arms, which we both acknowledge could potentially have some “military purpose”. Likewise, I think it’s silly to call Aolong-1 an “offensive space-based capability” or weapon, even though it too, has a robotic arm, and some maneuvering capabilities which could be creatively-stretched into some feeble ability to disable / damage / destroy an enemy-nation’s satellite. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2016, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-challenging-election-dont-they-care/774109/90 "2016-12-08T03:44:32Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > … > And if yes, what do you believe those objects were? Satellite(s)? Debris? Traces of spent fuel? A Death Star? Something else? You keep trying to move the goal posts. China has over 180 satellites in space now. Right now, 180+. And you want me to believe anyone, other than China, knows what each of those satellites really are? ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2016, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-challenging-election-dont-they-care/774109/91 "2016-12-08T03:45:43Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > No, and I’d be surprised if anyone has concerns about it being a weapon… [Be surprised.](http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/get-ready-america-russia-china-have-space-weapons-15027) ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2016, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-challenging-election-dont-they-care/774109/92 "2016-12-08T04:03:01Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > [Be surprised.](http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/get-ready-america-russia-china-have-space-weapons-15027) That was a rather long article that I read all the way through, and I don’t believe it makes any relevant point at all. In the future, if you think a lengthy cite contains something relevant to the discussion, could you please do us all a favor and quote the most relevant bits here? Perhaps you didn’t understand that the “it” that Ravenman and I were discussing was the International Space Station, sometimes abbreviated as “ISS”. I would’ve expected the link you provided to have something like a Chinese claim that the ISS was a space weapon, or something along those lines. I didn’t see anything like that, and consequently, am still waiting to be surprised. BTW, you still haven’t answered my very plain question: Do you believe that the Chinese rocket launch on May 13, 2013 put / left any objects in orbit around Earth? I said the Pentagon report has a typo where it used the word “orbit” when they meant to use the word “atmosphere” (see post #74). You said that I “didn’t understand” in post #80. Is it still your belief that I was mistaken, and that the Chinese launch on May 13, 2013 left something in orbit? Or have you subsequently learned that I was correct and that the Pentagon report did have a typo / misprint? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2016, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-challenging-election-dont-they-care/774109/93 "2016-12-08T04:10:23Z")
> [@jshore](#): > > Well, to be honest, I don’t know enough about how the recount is done to be confident…But I am quite confident that such tampering will not be found if the votes are not recounted. At least a recount opens up the possibility of discovering tampering. Fair enough. I don’t know all the intricacies of the recount procedures in each state either, and I agree with you that “a recount opens up the possibility of discovering tampering.” Just don’t get your hopes up, because the likely outcome here is that the first count was basically correct and it will be confirmed by the recount. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2016, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-challenging-election-dont-they-care/774109/94 "2016-12-08T04:20:25Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > If I have reason suspect the subpoena is not valid, or that I can legally challenge it then I’m going to challenge it. I’m not going to say: I have nothing to hide, so what do I care? I was advised that I had the right to sit down and shut up, and that it was a very, _very_ good idea. I agreed. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2016, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-challenging-election-dont-they-care/774109/95 "2016-12-08T04:25:08Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > … > BTW, you still haven’t answered my very plain question: Do you believe that the Chinese rocket launch on May 13, 2013 put / left any objects in orbit around Earth? > > … Neither of us have any way of knowing. The Chinese know, and I’m sure our government knows. I doubt anyone outside of either government would know, or be willing to talk about it if they did. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2016, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-challenging-election-dont-they-care/774109/96 "2016-12-08T04:25:18Z")
It’s virtually always a good idea to shut up when you’re dealing with cops. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2016, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-challenging-election-dont-they-care/774109/97 "2016-12-08T04:32:15Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Neither of us have any way of knowing. The Chinese know, and I’m sure our government knows. I doubt anyone outside of either government would know, or be willing to talk about it if they did. This is batshit crazy. I posted the Pentagon report. I even explained the typo to you. [Here is another article about the same launch](http://spacenews.com/pentagon-says-2013-chinese-launch-may-have-tested-antisatellite-technology/). I’ll quote the relevant bits for you (any emphasis added will be my own, to hopefully get the point through to you): > [@](#): > > China characterized the launch as a scientific sounding rocket mission, but the U.S. Air Force said the vehicle’s trajectory was inconsistent with that explanation. In a statement released shortly after the launch, the service said the rocket climbed to a nearly geosynchronous-orbit altitude — 36,000 kilometers high — **but that all objects associated with the launch subsequently re-entered the atmosphere**. > > … > > “The launch appeared to be on a ballistic trajectory nearly to geosynchronous Earth orbit,” Lt. Col. Monica Matoush, a Pentagon spokeswoman, wrote in an email to SpaceNews on May 16, 2013. “ **We tracked several objects during the flight but did not observe the insertion of any objects into orbit and no objects associated with this launch remain in space**. Based upon observations, we assess that the objects reentered the atmosphere above the Indian Ocean.” ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2016, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-challenging-election-dont-they-care/774109/98 "2016-12-08T04:35:01Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > There’s so much stupidity packed into this short post I hardly know where to begin. This right here - please dial it back. On a more general note, I’m not sure how this topic drifted into discussion about nuances of Chinese satellites, but this thread is ostensibly about ‘Dems challenging election’. Please stay on topic. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2016, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-challenging-election-dont-they-care/774109/99 "2016-12-08T04:38:30Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > This right here - please dial it back. > > On a more general note, I’m not sure how this topic drifted into discussion about nuances of Chinese satellites, but this thread is ostensibly about ‘Dems challenging election’. Please stay on topic. > > [/moderating] Sorry. I tried to edit the “batshit crazy” out of my last post too after I saw this, but I missed the edit window. I’ll stop the hijack. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2016, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-challenging-election-dont-they-care/774109/100 "2016-12-08T04:44:06Z")
redacted. ETA. Sry Bone, didn’t see your note before hitting post. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-challenging-election-dont-they-care/774109.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-challenging-election-dont-they-care/774109.md?page=6)