# Dems - Defend your Senators holding the budget bill hostage **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 19, 2018, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968 "2018-01-19T14:29:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2018, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/221 "2018-01-20T18:00:13Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Ahhh, don’t tease like that! Thanks. I needed that today. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2018, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/222 "2018-01-20T18:06:20Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > [Trump says the President should be blamed for a government shutdown.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmUbp9bopBo) Yeah, but that was only before HE was President. Now, however, it’s obviously the Democrats fault. It has nothing to do with the President at all. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2018, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/223 "2018-01-20T18:08:57Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Elected Democrats have chosen to shut down the U.S. government in order to show their support for ILLEGAL ALIENS. > > The welfare of ILLEGAL ALIENS is more important to them than the welfare of American citizens. > > Vote accordingly. I agree. All ~80% of Americans who expressed support for DACA should vote for Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2018, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/224 "2018-01-20T18:09:18Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Ummm … I’m pretty sure the House-passed bill funded CHIP, and it got most Republican votes and was opposed by most Democrats. YMMV, but I think you’re supposed to be arguing about illegal immigrants right now, not healthcare for children. That was for “kicking the can down the road” bill. The Democrats continue to point out that it should be a proper resolution. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2018, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/225 "2018-01-20T18:39:23Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > That was for “kicking the can down the road” bill. The Democrats continue to point out that it should be a proper resolution. That’s a fine point, but given that most Republicans voted for a bill that would have both averted a shutdown and funded CHIP, I’m not sure there’s very much sense in arguing that “Elected Republicans have chosen to shut down the U.S. government in order to remove healthcare for CHILDREN.” Do you see how silly that seems? ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_lining](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aca169/32.png) [@Silver\_lining](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_lining)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2018, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/226 "2018-01-20T18:46:09Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Every time the Pubs held the government hostage by threatening a shutdown because of the increasing debt, the Dems (here and in Congress) lose their stuff. > “How dare they allow a shutdown.” > “OMG this is the end of America. Blame the Pubs.” > “Republicans are evil. Eeeeeeeeeviiiiilllllll!!!” > \*\* > > But this year the Dems are holding the budget hostage because of DACA. Of course the Pubs have their own hypocrisy\* saying the Dems should not cause a shut down. > > So can you defend the Senate Dems threatening a shutdown? > > - So let’s not devolve into the tu quoque arguement. > \*\* And now the standard Dem arguement for anything is “Everything the Cheetoe does is wrong” The shut down is never a good idea for the minority party and shutting things down for DACA a group few citizens care about is going to cost Democrats. While the media is mostly a Democratic spin machine, you’ve got to justify a stoppage with points people care about. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2018, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/227 "2018-01-20T18:48:48Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > The shut down is never a good idea for the minority party and shutting things down for DACA a group few citizens care about is going to cost Democrats. > > While the media is mostly a Democratic spin machine, you’ve got to justify a stoppage with points people care about. [87% in favor of DACA.](http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/369487-poll-nearly-nine-in-10-favor-allowing-daca-recipients-to-stay) > [@](#): > > An overwhelming majority of Americans supports legal protections for certain undocumented immigrants brought to the U.S. as children, according to a new CBS News poll. > > According to the survey, almost 9 in 10 respondents — 87 percent — said they believe that the so-called Dreamers should be allowed to remain in the U.S. if they meet certain requirements, such as working or going to school. That’s your definition of a few? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2018, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/228 "2018-01-20T18:52:13Z")
In 2013, the GOP shut the government down for 16 days. They went on to win big in the midterms. I don’t think the Democrats have much to worry about, politically, no matter who ends up getting blamed. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2018, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/229 "2018-01-20T19:05:58Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > In 2013, the GOP shut the government down for 16 days. They went on to win big in the midterms. I don’t think the Democrats have much to worry about, politically, no matter who ends up getting blamed. It’s also worth pointing out that when the GOP forced the government shut down in 2013, it was in order to force the repeal of Obamacare. Which, when they had the opportunity to actually do a few years later, with no need for Democratic support, they didn’t actually do. Sort of undermines the seriousness of their arguments. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2018, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/230 "2018-01-20T19:06:47Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > That’s a fine point, but given that most Republicans voted for a bill that would have both averted a shutdown and funded CHIP, I’m not sure there’s very much sense in arguing that “Elected Republicans have chosen to shut down the U.S. government in order to remove healthcare for CHILDREN.” Do you see how silly that seems? Only by the ones that want to follow the sorry republican propaganda, as it was pointed before, support that the Democrats would give it fell off when Trump opened his big mouth, and IIUC it also includes less funding or removal of many other sensible immigration items. And it also does not even do a good job with CHIP. > **[Pitting 'Kids Against Dreamers,' GOP Exploiting CHIP Funds to Trap Dems on...](https://www.commondreams.org/news/2018/01/17/pitting-kids-against-dreamers-gop-exploiting-chip-funds-trap-dems-spending-bill)** > > "It's unconscionable that Republicans delayed CHIP for months to use kids as a bargaining chip to entice Democrats to sell out Dreamers." > [@](#): > > A new Republican stop-gap spending measure, unveiled by House Speaker Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) on Tuesday, would keep the government running for just under a month and extend funding for Children’s Health Insurance Program (CHIP)—which covers around nine million children—for six years. > > It would not, however, include a solution for the hundreds of thousands of young immigrants facing the possibility of deportation due to Trump’s decision to end DACA last September. > > If a spending measure isn’t passed by 12:01am on Saturday, the government will shut down. > > The GOP **ploy** could leave Democrats in “a difficult political decision,” the New York Times notes. Either they “withhold their votes unless the plight of such immigrants, known as Dreamers, is addressed and risk a government shutdown, or vote to keep the government open and fund” CHIP. > > Analysts were quick to warn Democrats not to fall for what they characterized as an attempt to hold CHIP “hostage” for political gain. > > \*\*Clio Chang of Splinter News highlighted the fact that the “Congressional Budget Office recently found that extending [CHIP] for ten years would actually save the government money, yet Ryan is still only willing to give children a 6-year extension.” > \*\* > “If the program was brought to a vote in a separate bill, it would pass in a second, which is why Ryan is trying to use it as leverage, knowing that some Democrats might be averse to voting against CHIP. But that’s exactly what they should do,” Chang concludes. “Ryan’s bill is a test—let’s just hope that the Democrats pass.” ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2018, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/231 "2018-01-20T19:07:07Z")
sSWEET CONSERVATIVE TEARS! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2018, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/232 "2018-01-20T19:15:16Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Is there some reason why the Majority can’t invoke the “nuclear option” or whatever it was called in order to pass the CR or the budget? It would require a majority of senators to change the rules. As they couldn’t even muster a their own party to vote for cloture on the bill, they are going to have an even harder time getting them to vote to remove the filibuster. Well, anyway, I’m a bit disappointed. I actually was hoping that the democrats would allow cloture, and then let the bill fail to pass on its own merits. I don’t think that they needed to filibuster to prevent its passage, and doing so just allows finger pointing in their direction. Also, as it is only a month CR, if it had/does pass we will be back here again in a few weeks, doing the same thing over again. DACA still has more than a month before it becomes a problem, could have used the next CR as a bargaining chip again, after more of the public support is behind the democrats, or, even better, just get a clean DACA bill through. In any case, as far as the public is concerned, it’s not really a shutdown until monday. If they get things worked out over the weekend, and the govt opens normally and on time monday, “no harm, no foul” and really no blame to be laid at either party’s feet. ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2018, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/233 "2018-01-20T19:22:17Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > The shut down is never a good idea for the minority party False, see 2013. > [@](#): > > and shutting things down for DACA a group few citizens care about is going to cost Democrats. False, depending on the polls, DACA is supported by 80-90 percent of the public. > [@](#): > > While the media is mostly a Democratic spin machine, False. Numerous independent sources show that the supposed “Liberal Bias” of the mainstream media would in fact be better labelled “factual news reporting,” that the majority (75+ percent) of falsehood based “biased” news is in fact conservative, an that in fact the mainstream news coverage matches average American’s positions far more accurately than Fox or the even further right coverage. So you’re completely correct except for the things you’re wrong about, which is everything. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2018, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/234 "2018-01-20T19:33:43Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Yeah, but that was only before HE was President. Now, however, it’s obviously the Democrats fault. It has nothing to do with the President at all. :rolleyes: The guy before him flip-flopped on the issue of government shutdowns too. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2018, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/235 "2018-01-20T19:39:28Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > That 31% number is lower than Trump’s approval rating. Which means there are some people who approve of Trump but would _not_ blame Dems for the shutdown. I omitted that something like 19% of respondents blamed both parties equally. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2018, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/236 "2018-01-20T19:42:55Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > The guy before him flip-flopped on the issue of government shutdowns too. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2018, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/237 "2018-01-20T19:52:00Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Cite? [http://www.nationalreview.com/article/361460/obama-heed-thyself-victor-davis-hanson](http://www.nationalreview.com/article/361460/obama-heed-thyself-victor-davis-hanson) ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2018, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/238 "2018-01-20T19:58:15Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > The guy before him flip-flopped on the issue of government shutdowns too. Sounds like you have a case of [Whataboutism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism) ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2018, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/239 "2018-01-20T20:19:11Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Elected Democrats have chosen to shut down the U.S. government in order to show their support for ILLEGAL ALIENS. > > The welfare of ILLEGAL ALIENS is more important to them than the welfare of American citizens. > > Vote accordingly. Or, as known by sensible people, HUMANS. And by the way, Republicans hold the cards now, not Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2018, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/240 "2018-01-20T20:31:22Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > And by the way, Republicans hold the cards now, not Democrats. [Nevertheless.](https://i.imgur.com/XWnGqzu.jpg) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968.md?page=13)