# Dems - Defend your Senators holding the budget bill hostage **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 19, 2018, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968 "2018-01-19T14:29:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/301 "2018-01-22T01:57:50Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It’s wrong to hold policies like CHIP hostage. And I’m glad five Democratic Senators did the right thing by voting for the CR. Maybe, just maybe, five or so more will join them tonight or tomorrow morning. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/302 "2018-01-22T02:04:41Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > And I’m glad five Democratic Senators did the right thing by voting for the CR. > > Maybe, just maybe, five or so more will join them tonight or tomorrow morning. Hopefully the Republicans will stop holding policies that benefit Americans hostage, and that they ostensibly support, and introduce a separate and clean CHIP bill that would have overwhelming support. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/303 "2018-01-22T02:09:10Z")
Yes, yes, but are American taxpayers going to fund the superwall that Mexico is “going to pay for”? ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/304 "2018-01-22T02:11:30Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Hopefully the Republicans will stop holding policies that benefit Americans hostage, and that they ostensibly support, and introduce a separate and clean CHIP bill that would have overwhelming support. Ok, so why don’t the Democrats drop DACA as a negotiating tool, for the time being, and simply agree to funding CHIP? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/305 "2018-01-22T02:14:08Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Ok, so why don’t the Democrats drop DACA as a negotiating tool, for the time being, and simply agree to funding CHIP? I have no doubt that all the Democrats would vote for a clean CHIP bill, not tied to DACA or government funding or anything else. Most Republicans would as well. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/306 "2018-01-22T02:58:41Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Are the DACA recipients somehow more important that the 9 million children who benefit from CHIP, which is out of money due to the shutdown? I’m going to save this post as the first time I’ve seen a conservative on this board care about government funded health care! What a thrilling development! ---
**Author:** ![Noborry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noborry/32/2564_2.png) [@Noborry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noborry)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/307 "2018-01-22T03:11:46Z")
Well, i’ve been reading through this wonderful discussion of yours. If the actual politicians in Washington are even slightly as childish as the median poster in here, then it is no wonder the government has troubles. I have rarely seen such an immature collection of name-calling, sniping, back-biting and doubletalking infants in my life! ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/308 "2018-01-22T03:28:18Z")
> [@Noborry](#): > > Well, i’ve been reading through this wonderful discussion of yours. > If the actual politicians in Washington are even slightly as childish as the median poster in here, then it is no wonder the government has troubles. > I have rarely seen such an immature collection of name-calling, sniping, back-biting and doubletalking infants in my life! Have you been over to the BBQ Pit? This is the nice part of the site. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/309 "2018-01-22T03:29:03Z")
> [@Noborry](#): > > I have rarely seen such an immature collection of name-calling, sniping, back-biting and doubletalking infants in my life! Are you new to the internet? If you are, whatever you do, DO NOT read the comments to any news story anywhere ever. Or just any comments to anything ever. You will lose all faith in humanity. Just a friendly tip. If this thread gives you the vapors … oh boy … ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/310 "2018-01-22T03:55:18Z")
> [@Noborry](#): > > Well, i’ve been reading through this wonderful discussion of yours. > If the actual politicians in Washington are even slightly as childish as the median poster in here, then it is no wonder the government has troubles. > I have rarely seen such an immature collection of name-calling, sniping, back-biting and doubletalking infants in my life! If you would take the time to read through the Registration Agreement, (necessary to actually post here), you will note that while a certain level of snark is permitted in this forum, it must not be directed against other posters. Feel free to express your opinions using hostile language in The BBQ Pit, but do not resort to name-calling or direct insults against other posters when posting in this forum. [/Moderasting] ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/311 "2018-01-22T03:57:07Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > And I’m glad five Democratic Senators did the right thing by voting for the CR. > > Maybe, just maybe, five or so more will join them tonight or tomorrow morning. Alright, then, explain those four Republicans who crossed party lines to vote against the punt. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/312 "2018-01-22T04:03:49Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Are the DACA recipients somehow more important that the 9 million children who benefit from CHIP, which is out of money due to the shutdown? It is likely that a good number of those children benefiting from CHIP have also parents that use DACA. > **[200K Kids Could Lose Their Parents if DREAMers Are Deported](https://www.thedailybeast.com/200k-kids-could-lose-their-parents-if-dreamers-are-deported)** > > Parents who benefited from the immigration program that President Trump just rescinded have laid down roots in the United States. > [@](#): > > **200K Kids Could Lose Their Parents if DREAMers Are Deported** > _Parents who benefited from the immigration program that President Trump just rescinded have laid down roots in the United States._ > > Angelica Villalobos has had difficult conversations with her four daughters, ages 17, 13, 10, and 8, in recent days. All four are U.S. citizens. But Villalobos, who lives in Oklahoma City, is undocumented. > > She’s been in the country for decades before receiving temporary protection from deportation through the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) program. On Tuesday, Attorney General Jeff Sessions announced that the Trump administration will end the DACA program, which means that people like Villalobos are now at greater risk of deportation. > > And so, Villalobos and her husband—also a DACA recipient—are preparing their daughters for the worst. They’ve told the 17-year-old that she may have to become the guardian of her three younger sisters if they, the parents, get deported. Already she’s begun driving her sisters to school and picking them up afterward to get used to the possibility. > > “I tell them it will be OK,” Villalobos said, “even though I don’t know if it will be OK.” > > There’s been substantial focus on the economic impact of the rescission of DACA, since upwards of 800,000 people have temporary work permits through the program. But as DACA recipients lose their protection and face a higher risk of deportation, it’s not just economy that will take the hardest hit—it’s families as well. And that is what is at stake here too, or are we going to let a minority (that is controlling the Republicans now) that does hate immigrants so much that we will do the classic experiment, that one with many predictable results, like to get as a result of that many kids that will get into trouble with the law when there are no parents around? ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/313 "2018-01-22T05:17:43Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > Alright, then, explain those four Republicans who crossed party lines to vote against the punt. In my personal opinion, those four are being contrarian dicks. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/314 "2018-01-22T06:16:23Z")
@GIGO, she has a 17 year old kid and qualified for DACA? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/315 "2018-01-22T06:32:06Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > @GIGO, she has a 17 year old kid and qualified for DACA? The parents are, their 17th year old is an American, but her future is not important for the Republicans in Congress. What about a supporter of them like you? ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/316 "2018-01-22T08:29:50Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > @GIGO, she has a 17 year old kid and qualified for DACA? Age-wise, you only have to be under 37. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/317 "2018-01-22T08:47:42Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > Age-wise, you only have to be under 37. Thanks, this is the information I was looking for. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/318 "2018-01-22T09:02:51Z")
Quickly skimming this thread, I didn’t spot any quote or cite of Paul Krugman’s recent column, arguing why the Democrats must resist the Republican behavior in Congress: [The G.O.P.’s Doomsday-Machine Politics](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/18/opinion/krugman-childrens-health-insurance-program.html), Paul Krugman, New York Times, 1/18/2018. > [@Paul Krugman](#): > > The thing is, G.O.P. politicians claim to support CHIP; while there isn’t a lot of polling on the issue, what there is suggests overwhelming popular support, including among Republican voters, for continuing the program. > > Yet G.O.P. leaders seem to believe that they can bully Democrats by threatening to hurt millions of children — because Democrats care more about those children than they do. They also believe that if this tactic fails they can frame it as an exhibition of callousness by Democrats. > > Democrats should just say no. These tactics cannot be allowed to succeed. > > For once doomsday-machine politics becomes the norm, anything is fair game. Give us what we want, or we’ll cut off Medicare. Give us what we want, or we’ll destroy Social Security. > > This has to stop. And now is the time to draw the line. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/319 "2018-01-22T09:19:00Z")
Most Republicans just voted to fund CHIP, while most Democrats voted against it. What are you or Krugman talking about “threatening to hurt millions of children”? The ones doing that are mostly Dems. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/320 "2018-01-22T09:48:24Z")
What we’re watching is politics as usual, and both sides are engaged in it. The Democrats, who want a clean vote on things they favor, have in the past been quite happy to link things they want with things they are willing to accept. For example, did you know that we could save $500 billion on Medicare without hurting beneficiaries? The Democrats could have passed a clean Medicare reform bill at any time, or joined Republicans on one, and the taxpayers could have been saved huge amounts of money. Instead, they opposed Medicare savings until they could use that money to fund ACA. Republicans, on the other hand, are holding up legislation that has majority support in both chambers because they don’t want it to pass, even though they claim they do want it to pass. Because they want concessions on other issues. This is how the system has always worked, what’s new is being willing to shut down the government over it. In any case, both parties are equally to blame, but Democrats will probably lose the messaging war. As always, just as the Republican party appears to be on the brink of destruction, Democrats throw it a lifeline. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968.md?page=17)