# Dems - Defend your Senators holding the budget bill hostage **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 19, 2018, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968 "2018-01-19T14:29:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/321 "2018-01-22T11:17:25Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Most Republicans just voted to fund CHIP, while most Democrats voted against it. What are you or Krugman talking about “threatening to hurt millions of children”? The ones doing that are mostly Dems. And Durbin-Graham has majority support, including - most likely - enough votes to pass cloture. Yet it hasn’t seen the floor for some reason. Republicans have been forcing Democrats to punt on CHIP since October. Democrats are arguing for ACTUALLY funding it, instead of the 3-6 week patches that have been keeping it going. Uncertainty for healthcare is bad, yet somehow CHIP has been turned into a bargaining piece that McConnell is trying to beat the Democrats with. How about we stop fucking around and just get the money authorized for a decent period of time? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/322 "2018-01-22T12:07:29Z")
How about demonstrating good faith by fully funding DHS so immigrants don’t wait years to get their day in court? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/323 "2018-01-22T12:29:22Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > Age-wise, you only have to be under 37. > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Thanks, this is the information I was looking for. And I suspected I was missing something, but that is not an excuse to put the question that was made under the rug. Again: Their parents are under DACA, their 17th year old and siblings are American, but their future is not important for the Republicans in Congress. What about a supporter of the Republicans like you? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/324 "2018-01-22T13:11:46Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Most Republicans just voted to fund CHIP, while most Democrats voted against it. What are you or Krugman talking about “threatening to hurt millions of children”? The ones doing that are mostly Dems. Nobody who has even a passing familiarity with American politics will believe this for a second. Literally everyone knows that Republicans want to cut government funded health care at every opportunity, except when it provides a temporary political advantage. We know this because Republicans alone press for policies that we know will leave tens of millions of Americans without health insurance, want to cut Medicare because cutting spending is more important than leaving seniors dying on the streets, and want to cut Medicaid because they think poor people should only have healthcare if it is convenient for millionaires. It is a fact that Republicans don’t care that much about CHIP. Why? Because the program has been expired for months, and during that time, Republicans in charge of Congress decided that tax cuts for corporations and adding $1.5 trillion to our debt is more important than preventing the lapse of insurance for kids. It is undeniable that the only reason CHIP is included in the budget bill is to attack Democrats. So who really cares about kids: Republicans who use the children as hostages in a budget argument, or Democrats who have two decades of clear voting records to include more kids in the program? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/325 "2018-01-22T13:15:56Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > How about demonstrating good faith by fully funding DHS so immigrants don’t wait years to get their day in court? How about _you_ demonstrating good faith by not being deliberately ambiguous. DHS includes Transportation Security Administration United States Coast Guard National Protection and Programs Directorate United States Secret Service Federal Law Enforcement Training Center Domestic Nuclear Detection Office ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/326 "2018-01-22T13:21:43Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > So, you’re not actually saying that they did, just maybe sorta kinda they did, “wouldn’t surprise you”. But you won’t back up that half-assed assertion because its too much trouble and no one would take you seriously anyway? > > That’s three inches of armor plate protecting a vacuum. You got nothin’, but its our fault? I think he’s right, both that it wouldn’t surprise me, either, and that the value in scrounging around for a cite (which often does not exist because what is being shown is not something that reporters always cover) is often not worth the effort. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/327 "2018-01-22T13:30:33Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > And Durbin-Graham has majority support, including - most likely - enough votes to pass cloture. Yet it hasn’t seen the floor for some reason. > > Republicans have been forcing Democrats to punt on CHIP since October. Democrats are arguing for ACTUALLY funding it, instead of the 3-6 week patches that have been keeping it going. Uncertainty for healthcare is bad, yet somehow CHIP has been turned into a bargaining piece that McConnell is trying to beat the Democrats with. How about we stop fucking around and just get the money authorized for a decent period of time? The CR that was up for a vote would have funded CHIP for 6 years. The vote would have been a CR PLUS the 6 year CHIP funding. The CHIP funding was a gambit by the Republican leaders to force the Democrats to vote for the CR. The fashion in Congress right now is to do these “vehicles” instead of stand alone bills. CHIP as a stand alone bill would almost certainly pass. It should be reupped for 10 years. So, why hasn’t leadership brought it up for a vote? Because they want to use it as a tool, as a vehicle, to get other things through. The Democrats are not holding CHIP hostage; they are holding the CR hostage in order to get DACA. The Dems would love for CHIP to be brought up separately. The Republicans are holding CHIP hostage in order to get the CR without DACA. They don’t want CHIP to be brought up separately. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/328 "2018-01-22T14:35:04Z")
What we clearly need is some business-savvy CEO type in the WH to get control of this whole funding process. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/329 "2018-01-22T14:48:40Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > What we clearly need is some business-savvy CEO type in the WH to get control of this whole funding process. Somebody skilled at negotiating? Or, let’s say, “making deals?” ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/330 "2018-01-22T15:17:15Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > What we clearly need is some business-savvy CEO type in the WH to get control of this whole funding process. Where is [this guy](https://www.snopes.com/trump-criticize-obama-shutdown) when we need him most? ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/331 "2018-01-22T15:25:59Z")
Gov’t shutdowns have just become another typical political move in the ugly game that it is. Not really seeing much beyond that and assuming gridlock takes 2. So far ‘nothing new under the sun’ My own take however is Trump planted the seed for this division which lead to the shutdown by giving both sides strong platforms on which to stubbornly stand on and is smiling about this behind closed doors. So a classic set up which worked as intended. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/332 "2018-01-22T15:30:18Z")
> [@](#): > > Where is this guy when we need him most? Now that you mention it, what is Obama doing? Did the flu season bring him and Michele a sudden case of STFU syndrome? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/333 "2018-01-22T15:32:36Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > My own take however is Trump planted the seed for this division which lead to the shutdown by giving both sides strong platforms on which to stubbornly stand on and is smiling about this behind closed doors. Except it isn’t both sides, now is it? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/334 "2018-01-22T15:45:15Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Most Republicans just voted to fund CHIP, while most Democrats voted against it. What are you or Krugman talking about “threatening to hurt millions of children”? The ones doing that are mostly Dems. The Pubbies could offer an amendment to replace Ruth Bader Ginsburg with Joe Arapaio and totally fund CHIP. And if the Dems puked their guts out, as they should…you would be down here telling us how the Dems voted against CHIP? Is that the secret sauce you’re selling today? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/335 "2018-01-22T15:50:08Z")
I see now, via several news sources, that Schumer met with the President; they agreed to a DACA _plus_ The Wall deal. Trump put a dollar amount on the table for Wall funding; _ **Schumer agreed to Trump’s number** _; and Schumer went back to the Senate to inform his colleagues that the government could be re-opened. However, a “32-year old man led Trump by the nose” and convinced him to renege on the deal. Mods, please change the thread title to _ **"Repubs - Defend your Senile Leader … or the 32-year old leading him by the nose"** _ (I didn’t catch who the 32-year old man is. It was NOT the combination Czar for Peace in the Middle East, Chief Trade Negotiator, Leader of the White House Office of American Innovation, Opiod Crisis Czar, Criminal Justice Reform Czar, and Guy who doesn’t know how to tell the truth on security clearance applications — that amazing genius is apparently almost over-the-hill, in this circus, at a whopping 37 years of age.) ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/336 "2018-01-22T15:52:20Z")
The guy’s name is [Stephen Miller](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_shutdowns_in_the_United_States). ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/337 "2018-01-22T15:54:49Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > The Pubbies could offer an amendment to replace Ruth Bader Ginsburg with Joe Arapaio and totally fund CHIP. And if the Dems puked their guts out, as they should…you would be down here telling us how the Dems voted against CHIP? In their 2013 shutdown, the Pub cheerleaders kept telling us it was the Democrats blocking the budget bill from passing, without mentioning the small detail that it included repealing health care. So yeah, more of the usual here. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/338 "2018-01-22T15:57:59Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > What we’re watching is politics as usual, and both sides are engaged in it. The Democrats, who want a clean vote on things they favor, have in the past been quite happy to link things they want with things they are willing to accept. For example, did you know that we could save $500 billion on Medicare without hurting beneficiaries? The Democrats could have passed a clean Medicare reform bill at any time, or joined Republicans on one, and the taxpayers could have been saved huge amounts of money. Instead, they opposed Medicare savings until they could use that money to fund ACA. > > Republicans, on the other hand, are holding up legislation that has majority support in both chambers because they don’t want it to pass, even though they claim they do want it to pass. Because they want concessions on other issues. > > This is how the system has always worked, what’s new is being willing to shut down the government over it. > > In any case, both parties are equally to blame, but Democrats will probably lose the messaging war. As always, just as the Republican party appears to be on the brink of destruction, Democrats throw it a lifeline. No. What you have done here is brought up a bunch of irrelevant information from the past that does not have anything to do with the current situation, and then just boldly asserted something completely different without proving it. The situation here is not “one side attached riders onto the bill.” That is indeed normal politics. The situation here is “the leader of one side said they would accept a compromise. Two other sides negotiated a compromise in good faith. Then the leader of one side reneged and didn’t accept the compromise.” Those who chose to compromise cannot be at fault. The fault is the one who was willing to shut down the government. That’s the Trump side. Republicans and Democrats wanted to keep it open, and negotiated a way to do so. It is ridiculous all the attempt to spin this as the fault of those who compromised. That would mean that the right thing to do is to never compromise, because that’s how you get what you want. That’s harmful to everyone. There’s a reason why I didn’t even blame my Senators or Congresspeople–who are all Republican. They aren’t the problem here. A compromise bill was ready, until Trump said he wouldn’t sign it. This is Trump’s shutdown, and any attempt to blame others is just playing into his narrative. It just helps him further wreck our political system. Edit: Yes, I know it was because Miller convinced Trump. But that doesn’t make it not Trump’s fault. For one thing, Miller is merely an adviser: Trump has to sign off on what he says. For another, the president’s name is usually a shorthand for his entire administration. Because, ultimately, he is the one in charge of it. Everything that happens in the President’s administration is the fault of President. The buck stops there. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/339 "2018-01-22T16:18:56Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > The guy’s name is [Stephen Miller](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_shutdowns_in_the_United_States). Give me a Brownie Point! I barely follow the news — and _hadn’t even heard of the guy until a few days ago_ — but based on the ridiculous spectacle he made of himself on CNN a few days ago, I guessed it was him! You couldn’t make this shit up. And that people are still defending Trump’s s\*\*\*hole Presidency boggles the imagination. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/340 "2018-01-22T16:28:05Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > … > My own take however is Trump planted the seed for this division which lead to the shutdown by giving both sides strong platforms on which to stubbornly stand on and is smiling about this behind closed doors. So a classic set up which worked as intended. [Thump is known to thrive on chaos and conflict.](https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trumps-antics-chaos-by-design_us_597b852ae4b0c69ef70527ee) He thinks that’s what leadership is. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968.md?page=18)