# Dems - Defend your Senators holding the budget bill hostage **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 19, 2018, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968 "2018-01-19T14:29:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/341 "2018-01-22T16:29:11Z")
Republicans that support Trump remind me of people that buy shitloads of lottery tickets instead of using the money to pay the pills-After a while they have invested so much in the lottery that they think that if back out now and do the right thing they won’t come out ahead…and besides, that lottery _could_ pay off, right? At this point, they are even willing to accept a Pyrrhic victory, as long as the word “victory” is there somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/342 "2018-01-22T16:29:27Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Give me a Brownie Point! I barely follow the news — and _hadn’t even heard of the guy until a few days ago_ — but based on the ridiculous spectacle he made of himself on CNN a few days ago, I guessed it was him! Famed man-about-town Stephen Miller, he of the heartbreakingly good looks and legendary charm, shoo-in for Sexiest Man Alive 2018— you’d never _heard of_ before? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/343 "2018-01-22T16:32:34Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > What we’re watching is politics as usual, and both sides are engaged in it. The Democrats, who want a clean vote on things they favor, have in the past been quite happy to link things they want with things they are willing to accept. For example, did you know that we could save $500 billion on Medicare without hurting beneficiaries? The Democrats could have passed a clean Medicare reform bill at any time, or joined Republicans on one, and the taxpayers could have been saved huge amounts of money. Instead, they opposed Medicare savings until they could use that money to fund ACA. That 500 Billion talking point is mostly talk and misleading too, in virtually all the forms the Republicans made it throughout the years. > **[Checking the facts on the $700 billion Medicare 'cut'](https://www.politifact.com/article/2012/aug/15/checking-facts-700-billion-medicare-cut/)** > > Seems like just yesterday that the big Republican talking point was that Obamacare cuts $500 billion from Medicare. Now, > **[Did President Barack Obama "steal" $500 billion from Medicare?](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2011/sep/12/michele-bachmann/did-president-obama-steal-500-billion-medicare/)** > > At a debate in Tampa, the Republican presidential candidates were asked this stumper by a Florida tea party supporter: H > **[Conway's Mostly False claim GOP bill doesn't cut Medicaid](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2017/jun/26/kellyanne-conway/does-senate-health-care-bill-cut-medicaid/)** > > Politics and math don’t always get along, and counselor to the president Kellyanne Conway raised a common complaint abou So I think that taking those misleading efforts into consideration then we should look at what the Democrats are telling us about the latest $500 billion item, it is more likely to lead to cuts, and not only on Medicare. [https://www.politico.com/story/2017/10/04/democrats-respond-senate-budget-medicare-243436](https://www.politico.com/story/2017/10/04/democrats-respond-senate-budget-medicare-243436) > [@](#): > > Senate Republicans are proposing to slash Medicare spending by $473 billion over a decade, once again diverging from one of President Donald Trump’s key campaign promises, according to Democrats on the Senate Budget Committee. > > The panel’s minority party staff, led by Sen. Bernie Sanders, published the figure in a five-page report, obtained by POLITICO. > > Although the cuts would occur under the fiscal 2018 budget resolution Senate Republicans unveiled last week, the details are not outlined in any public documents the GOP has released so far. > > The Republican plan would slash $5.071 trillion from domestic programs over a decade, but it provides almost no detail on what accounts would be targeted. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/344 "2018-01-22T16:33:37Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Republicans that support Trump remind me of people that buy shitloads of lottery tickets instead of using the money to pay the pills-After a while they have invested so much in the lottery that they think that if back out now and do the right thing they won’t come out ahead…and besides, that lottery _could_ pay off, right? At this point, they are even willing to accept a Pyrrhic victory, as long as the word “victory” is there somewhere. I think many of his supporters think getting $1 on a $10 ticket is winning. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/345 "2018-01-22T16:33:52Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > And Durbin-Graham has majority support, including - most likely - enough votes to pass cloture. Yet it hasn’t seen the floor for some reason. > > Republicans have been forcing Democrats to punt on CHIP since October. Democrats are arguing for ACTUALLY funding it, instead of the 3-6 week patches that have been keeping it going. Uncertainty for healthcare is bad, yet somehow CHIP has been turned into a bargaining piece that McConnell is trying to beat the Democrats with. How about we stop fucking around and just get the money authorized for a decent period of time? My understanding was that the bill that most Dems voted against would’ve funded CHIP for 6 years. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/346 "2018-01-22T16:36:59Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > And I suspected I was missing something, but that is not an excuse to put the question that was made under the rug. > > Again: Their parents are under DACA, their 17th year old and siblings are American, but their future is not important for the Republicans in Congress. > > What about a supporter of the Republicans like you? I don’t have strong feelings on the matter. If a deal is worked out whereby they get a green card, that’s ok with me. If they get deported, that’s ok with me too. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/347 "2018-01-22T16:37:35Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Are the DACA recipients somehow more important that the 9 million children who benefit from CHIP, which is out of money due to the shutdown? The Republicans seem to think so since they refuse to bring up a clean CHIP bill but instead insist on scoring political points off the well-being of infants and children. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/348 "2018-01-22T16:39:00Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > For example, did you know that we could save $500 billion on Medicare without hurting beneficiaries? Oh, what the hell … Cite? > [@](#): > > In any case, both parties are equally to blame That’s an improvement on blaming the Democrats for everything, we must admit. Still got some ways to go, though, pard. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/349 "2018-01-22T16:48:39Z")
I’m coming in this debate late, and I haven’t read all the posts … so if this has been covered already, please forgive me my laziness … Oregon voted 2 yeas on the Sep 7th CR, split on the Dec 7th CR, 2 nays on Dec 21st and again 2 nays on Jan 19th … from CNBC’s [“Here’s how your senators voted on the government shutdown”](https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/20/heres-how-your-senators-voted-on-the-government-shutdown.html) - Jan 20th 2018 Oh the humanity … they’ve locked the gates at the Democratic People’s Republic of Malheur National Wildlife Refuge … the South Entrance to Crater Lake NP is closed (the North Entrance was closed this fall due to snow) … the military has stopped moth-balling the Umatilla Weapons Depot (chemical weapon incineration) … there’s dozens of cows wandering aimlessly in the High Desert without Federal Oversight … no one from the Dep’t of Interior will be banging on my front door to tell me to mow my lawn again … They _have_ to hold out for DACA, or we’ll recall them and send someone who _will_ block everything until DACA is sent to the President … if this means shutting down our one and only national park, so be it … that’s a price Oregon’s willing to pay … neither of them is up for re-election, but this kind of brinksmanship is what will get them re-elected in the future … ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/350 "2018-01-22T17:22:21Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > … They _have_ to hold out for DACA, or we’ll recall them and send someone who _will_ block everything until DACA is sent to the President … Is there some recall mechanism for Senators in Oregon? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/351 "2018-01-22T17:23:11Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Is there some recall mechanism for Senators in Oregon? He probably described it in the parts he elided. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/352 "2018-01-22T17:27:23Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Is there some recall mechanism for Senators in Oregon? U.S. Senators-yes. State Senators-No. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/353 "2018-01-22T17:36:02Z")
The Democrats say they are agreeing to the GOP offer to pass another short-term CR in exchange for bringing DACA debate to the floor. This means the next CR vote will not have CHIP to drive it, but will have whatever acts Congressional leadership take on DACA. They aren’t giving up much, but promises aren’t worth much, either. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/354 "2018-01-22T17:39:53Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > In my personal opinion, those four are being contrarian dicks. That’s it? That’s all you’ve got? How convenient. > [@wonky](#): > > The Democrats say they are agreeing to the GOP offer to pass another short-term CR in exchange for bringing DACA debate to the floor. This means the next CR vote will not have CHIP to drive it, but will have whatever acts Congressional leadership take on DACA. They aren’t giving up much, but promises aren’t worth much, either. With McConnell? His promises aren’t worth the paper they’re written on. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/355 "2018-01-22T17:48:13Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > With McConnell? His promises aren’t worth the paper they’re written on. Agreed, but at the same time, this just gives them another leverage point because it’s another short-term CR. I don’t hate it. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/356 "2018-01-22T18:08:38Z")
So … everyone meet back here in three weeks to continue this discussion? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/357 "2018-01-22T18:10:35Z")
Peace out! ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/358 "2018-01-22T18:19:24Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > So … everyone meet back here in three weeks to continue this discussion? > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Peace out! Maybe I’ll get lucky and get hit by a bus before then. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/359 "2018-01-22T18:31:27Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I don’t have strong feelings on the matter. If a deal is worked out whereby they get a green card, that’s ok with me. If they get deported, that’s ok with me too. More avoidance, I was referring to the American kids that will lose their Parents, are you ok with them having their parents deported? Their families separated? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/360 "2018-01-22T18:34:17Z")
A completely random funny moment. A reporter’s phone autocorrected “Cortez Masto” to “Cortez Mastodon.” According to the reporter, Cortez Mastodon voted no on the CR. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968.md?page=19)