# Dems - Defend your Senators holding the budget bill hostage **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 19, 2018, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968 "2018-01-19T14:29:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/381 "2018-01-22T19:50:50Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > DACA can be discussed at a later date. Then why do Republicans and the President insist on including DACA in the bill? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/382 "2018-01-22T19:54:37Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Isn’t it easier, as well as saner, to just not deport them for something they’re not responsible for? Who cares if they’re not responsible? Kick them out. And while we’re at it, let’s execute children of murderers. Sure, they’re not responsible for the ‘sins of their fathers’, but there’s probably something in the Bible that says it’s OK. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/383 "2018-01-22T19:58:30Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Who cares if they’re not responsible? Kick them out. > > And while we’re at it, let’s execute children of murderers. Sure, they’re not responsible for the ‘sins of their fathers’, but there’s probably something in the Bible that says it’s OK. Who the hell follows the Bible except to excuse bad behavior? ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/384 "2018-01-22T20:01:26Z")
when you realize that the #1 thing that matters to those guys/gals is re-election then it all makes sense. Everything else is secondary. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/385 "2018-01-22T20:13:07Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Isn’t it easier, as well as saner, to just not deport them for something they’re not responsible for? Like I said, if a deal gets worked out, I’d be ok with that too. FWIW, I think they probably have varying degrees of responsibility from “not at all responsible” to “some responsibility” ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/386 "2018-01-22T20:16:26Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Then why do Republicans and the President insist on including DACA in the bill? You’ve confused me. It’s easy to do! ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/387 "2018-01-22T20:17:58Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Like I said, if a deal gets worked out, I’d be ok with that too. After all this, it’s fair to ask you _what sort_ of deal you would accept. > [@](#): > > FWIW, I think they probably have varying degrees of responsibility from “not at all responsible” to “some responsibility” Are you backing down from “Illegal! Deport!” now? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/388 "2018-01-22T20:21:44Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > After all this, it’s fair to ask you _what sort_ of deal you would accept. > > Are you backing down from “Illegal! Deport!” now? Backing down from it? That was never my position. Here’s what I said: > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I don’t have strong feelings on the matter. If a deal is worked out whereby they get a green card, that’s ok with me. If they get deported, that’s ok with me too. Maybe it’d be fair to ask _after_ you learn how to quit misrepresenting my position. You are notorious for that. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/389 "2018-01-22T20:52:42Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Nothing will change the reality that \*\*American \*\*kids will be harmed, and that \*\*most Republicans also support that the DACA people should be helped. > \*\* > That some Republicans like to support a minority in congress that is for inhuman solutions should be shameful, but some like Trump do not have it. What’s that you say? The Democrats shut down the government and it’s harming American kids? Just because elected Democrats chose to support illegal aliens over American kids? I’m shocked. What is the average age of these so-called DACA kids? 26? 22? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/390 "2018-01-22T20:55:44Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > What is the average age of these so-called DACA kids? 26? 22? So what? Many of these kids were brought over as infants or toddlers. They may be 26 _now_, but they’re living in the only country they’ve ever known. Many of them don’t even speak Spanish. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/391 "2018-01-22T20:57:17Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Then why do Republicans and the President insist on including DACA in the bill? Which bill? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/392 "2018-01-22T21:01:11Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > So what? > > Many of these kids were brought over as infants or toddlers. They may be 26 _now_, but they’re living in the only country they’ve ever known. Many of them don’t even speak Spanish. You used the word “many” there. Could you quantify that any more precisely? Are we talking about 8,000 infants / toddlers and 792,000 older children? Or is it more like 400,000 infants or toddlers and 400,000 older children? Is there any sort of scientific analysis of the breakdown of ages at which DACA participants entered the country? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/393 "2018-01-22T21:02:18Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > So what? > > Many of these kids were brought over as infants or toddlers. They may be 26 _now_, but they’re living in the only country they’ve ever known. Many of them don’t even speak Spanish. Gosh, since you put it that way, the elected Democrats must have thought that they had no choice but to shut down the U.S. government in order to support the “rights” of illegal aliens over the needs of U.S. citizens. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/394 "2018-01-22T21:05:54Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Gosh, since you put it that way, the elected Democrats must have thought that they had no choice but to shut down the U.S. government in order to support the “rights” of illegal aliens over the needs of U.S. citizens. Was that the only thing on the agenda they might have objected to? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/395 "2018-01-22T21:13:54Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Maybe it’d be fair to ask _after_ you learn how to quit misrepresenting my position. You are notorious for that. Or is it that you don’t like your positions all that much either once they’re held up to the light? ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/396 "2018-01-22T21:15:58Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > “block everything until DACA is sent to the President”. This is more proof that elected Democrats, and (some of) the Democrat collective, hold the “rights” of illegal aliens to be more important than the needs of U.S. citizens. Except the “needs” affected by the shutdown are minor inconveniences, or at worst a temporary suspension of pay. While the DACA recipients are facing the prospect from deportation from the country they grew up in. I’m 100% on board with their rights being a higher priority than my paycheck (I’m a non-exempt civil servant). ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/397 "2018-01-22T21:17:31Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Gosh, since you put it that way, the elected Democrats must have thought that they had no choice but to shut down the U.S. government in order to support the “rights” of illegal aliens over the needs of U.S. citizens. Loser Donnie said he would support DACA in exchange for funding The Wall. Democrats grudgingly agreed. Loser Donnie reneged on the agreement. This shutdown is entirely on the Republicans. Our government was designed specifically to force compromise. When one party refuses to compromise _cough_ _Republicans_ and then reneges on a deal beneficial to their side, they are being un-American. In addition, there were _Republicans_ who voted against the funding bill. If the Republican House majority, the Republican Senate majority, and the Republican President cannot agree on their own bill, then it is a bad bill that should not be passed. DACA is not a funding program, so it should not be included in the bill. The President promised that U.S. Taxpayers will not pay for the wall. Therefore, The Wall should not be included in the funding bill. It’s the job of Congress to pass annual funding measures for the U.S. government. If the bill is only for a couple of hours (OK, a couple of weeks), then it is a bad bill and shouldn’t be passed. The Republicans need to stop refusing to follow the plan as the Founding Fathers laid it out, and stop insisting that ‘compromise’ means they get everything they want and the opposition gets nothing. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/398 "2018-01-22T21:19:17Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Or is it that you don’t like your positions all that much either once they’re held up to the light? I’m comfortable with my positions, but I find it fascinating that you imagine that your throwing mud all over everything is ‘[holding them] up to the light’. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/399 "2018-01-22T21:21:24Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > … In addition, there were _Republicans_ who voted against the funding bill. … And Democrats that voted for it. What did you hope to prove by pointing that out? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/400 "2018-01-22T21:22:23Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > You used the word “many” there. Could you quantify that any more precisely? Are we talking about 8,000 infants / toddlers and 792,000 older children? Or is it more like 400,000 infants or toddlers and 400,000 older children? Is there any sort of scientific analysis of the breakdown of ages at which DACA participants entered the country? An interesting question, but by definition, a person must not have reached their 16th birthday to qualify for DACA. I would say children who are 15 years or younger fall into the category of “we can reasonably believe that they had no say in whether to be brought to the United States or not.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968.md?page=21)