# Dems - Defend your Senators holding the budget bill hostage **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 19, 2018, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968 "2018-01-19T14:29:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 28
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/541 "2018-01-25T19:25:44Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Yeah, but so is a coup in which we arrest all the Dems on trumped up charges, hold votes to expel them from Congress, and then vote with our new, shrunken, all-Republican Congress. I fail to see the relevance of your example. For my example, it has already been done for other things, so what stopped them from doing it this time? I fail to notice any examples of your “coup” scenario in the past. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/542 "2018-01-25T19:46:15Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > And they had no reason even to try? Elected Democrats went on the record as supporting the “rights” of illegal aliens over U.S. citizens. Elected Democrats knew they could hold government funding hostage over any number of current political issues, but elected Democrats CHOSE this particular issue. According to Democrats, the “rights” of illegal aliens are more important than the needs of U.S. citizens. While those elected Democrats enjoy some vocal support of many of the Democrat collective, biased news media talking heads, and bored internet posters, I’m not sure this boneheaded political move is going to translate into pro-Democrat votes, or more Democrat seats. I can see why some Democrats would like this issue to go away, but other Democrats seem to think that public support for illegal aliens over U.S. citizens will actually result in more votes for Democrat candidates. Time will tell. Just for the record, I don’t think you needed to end your post with a question mark. A period would probably have been more accurate. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/543 "2018-01-25T19:51:49Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Elected Democrats went on the record as supporting the “rights” of illegal aliens over U.S. citizens. Elected Democrats knew they could hold government funding hostage over any number of current political issues, but elected Democrats CHOSE this particular issue. According to Democrats, the “rights” of illegal aliens are more important than the needs of U.S. citizens. While those elected Democrats enjoy some vocal support of many of the Democrat collective, biased news media talking heads, and bored internet posters, I’m not sure this boneheaded political move is going to translate into pro-Democrat votes, or more Democrat seats. > > I can see why some Democrats would like this issue to go away, but other Democrats seem to think that public support for illegal aliens over U.S. citizens will actually result in more votes for Democrat candidates. Time will tell. > > Just for the record, I don’t think you needed to end your post with a question mark. A period would probably have been more accurate. 🙂 You just used the word Democrat 11 times in this post. Do you think that being repetitive makes what you write more persuasive? It does not. 87% of the public thinks that those in the DACA program should be able to stay in the country and should not be deported. Aligning yourself with a viewpoint that only 13% of the public supports does not seem to be a smart political move. I guess we will see in November. cite: [http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/369487-poll-nearly-nine-in-10-favor-allowing-daca-recipients-to-stay](http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/369487-poll-nearly-nine-in-10-favor-allowing-daca-recipients-to-stay) ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/544 "2018-01-25T19:57:46Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I fail to see the relevance of your example. For my example, it has already been done for other things, so what stopped them from doing it this time? I fail to notice any examples of your “coup” scenario in the past. The “nuclear option” involves a rule change. It eliminates the filibuster. It’s a bit of a crossing-the-Rubicon moment though, and both parties hesitate to do that because they’d like some power when they’re in the minority. That’s what’s stopped them from doing it this time, and every time in the past when it was considered to pass legislation. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/545 "2018-01-25T19:59:25Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > The “nuclear option” involves a rule change. It eliminates the filibuster. It’s a bit of a crossing-the-Rubicon moment though, and both parties hesitate to do that because they’d like some power when they’re in the minority. I see. So the Republicans cared more about power than they did about US Citizens? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/546 "2018-01-25T20:00:30Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Elected Democrats went on the record as supporting the “rights” of illegal aliens over U.S. citizens. What rights were they supporting that US citizens dont have? The right to live here?:rolleyes: In 2013 the GOP shut down the governmnet over the fact that the Democrats wanted to let people have health care. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/547 "2018-01-25T20:06:31Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > What rights were they supporting that US citizens dont have? The right to live here?:rolleyes: I would assume he meant the right to a functioning government. Cue the “what’s that?” jokes. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/548 "2018-01-25T20:07:38Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > I would assume he meant the right to a functioning government. We havent had one of those since the GOP got control of The House. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/549 "2018-01-25T20:10:18Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > For the most part, but TV ads can always remind them. At least where it will do good. Having to defend very few Senate seats compared to Democrats gives Republicans a lot of advantages, and puts a lot of red state Democrats in a very tough position. DACA has 87% support. Please proceed. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/550 "2018-01-25T20:12:53Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I see. So the Republicans cared more about power than they did about US Citizens? That’s certainly one (very slanted) interpretation. If they really cared about exercising power, then the nuclear option would be the way to go. It’s the fact that they’d like to maintain some semblance of bipartisanship and regular order in the Senate that they haven’t. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/551 "2018-01-25T20:18:49Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > That’s certainly one (very slanted) interpretation. If they really cared about exercising power, then the nuclear option would be the way to go. It’s the fact that they’d like to maintain some semblance of bipartisanship and regular order in the Senate that they haven’t. Like they did for the recent Supreme Court nominee? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/552 "2018-01-25T20:20:07Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > For the most part, but TV ads can always remind them. At least where it will do good. Having to defend very few Senate seats compared to Democrats gives Republicans a lot of advantages, and puts a lot of red state Democrats in a very tough position. About half of them voted yes on the CR and the other half pressured Schumer to listen to them instead of the wannabe Presidential candidates, who are taking hard lines and are willing to fight to the last red state Democrat in order to win their party’s Presidential nomination. So, propaganda, then. > [@doorhinge](#): > > (underline added) > > Hahahaha. “low information voters”??? Seriously? Is that how you expect to convince voters to support a Democrat candidate? > > Why would you believe that fooling you would even be a low-priority goal of myself, or anyone else? I’m entitled to my opinion just as much as you’re entitled to my opinion. > > p.s. You do you, too. (whatever that means?) Yes, low information voters are people that do not pay much in depth attention to politics. They may see some headlines, they may watch a bit of news, but they don’t look into the deeper details of policy. There is nothing wrong with a person like this, it is just that they are in fact, more easily swayed by soundbites and propaganda. Your arguments would appear persuasive to them, and that is a problem. But soundbites and strawmen are actually not a useful form of debate. > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Yeah, but so is a coup in which we arrest all the Dems on trumped up charges, hold votes to expel them from Congress, and then vote with our new, shrunken, all-Republican Congress. One option changes the senate rules slightly in accordance with the rules of the senate. The other is an unconstitutional and most likely violent coup. Really, you don’t see any difference between the options? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/553 "2018-01-25T20:29:39Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > You just used the word Democrat 11 times in this post. Do you think that being repetitive makes what you write more persuasive? It does not. > > 87% of the public thinks that those in the DACA program should be able to stay in the country and should not be deported. Aligning yourself with a viewpoint that only 13% of the public supports does not seem to be a smart political move. I guess we will see in November. > cite: [http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/369487-poll-nearly-nine-in-10-favor-allowing-daca-recipients-to-stay](http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/369487-poll-nearly-nine-in-10-favor-allowing-daca-recipients-to-stay) You can count to eleven. Did you think that will somehow be persuasive? Silly question, of course you did. Do you possess some internet posting authority that allows you to dictate which nouns, pronouns, adjectives, verbs, etc. are permitted to be used in internet posts? Elected Democrats chose to support the “rights” of illegal aliens over U.S. citizens, and chose to shut down government funding to prove it. Does that make those elected Democrats bad people? Of course not. Those elected Democrats simply forgot who they were elected to represent. Will the voters, legal voters not illegal aliens, chose to make this elected Democrat action (non-action?) a major reason to vote/not vote for Democrats in the next general (AKA midterms) election? If the Democrat collective repeatedly claims that the elected Democrats action didn’t happen, or doesn’t matter, shouldn’t matter, or will be forgot, does that mean that the Democrat collective’s dream will come true? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/554 "2018-01-25T20:30:40Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > the Democrat collective Hooboy. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/555 "2018-01-25T20:32:12Z")
DACA has 87% support. In this highly polarized time, it has 87% support. Do you really think this is the election winning issue that you are imagining it to be? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/556 "2018-01-25T20:38:15Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Yes, low information voters are people that do not pay much in depth attention to politics. They may see some headlines, they may watch a bit of news, but they don’t look into the deeper details of policy. There is nothing wrong with a person like this, it is just that they are in fact, more easily swayed by soundbites and propaganda. > > Your arguments would appear persuasive to them, and that is a problem. But soundbites and strawmen are actually not a useful form of debate. (post shortened) Hahahaha. First you insult potential voters by calling them “low information voters”, and then further insult them by saying they are easily swayed. Swayed by someone other than yourself, perhaps? Can you - _Defend your Senators holding the budget bill hostage_ - without insulting the very voters you would need if your intention is to change the majority party in the U.S. Senate? ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/557 "2018-01-25T20:40:22Z")
DACA has 87% support. You are banking everything on a position that only 13% of the public supports. That is unwise in my opinion, but please by all means go ahead with that strategy and see how it works out. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/558 "2018-01-25T20:44:06Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > DACA has 87% support. In this highly polarized time, it has 87% support. Do you really think this is the election winning issue that you are imagining it to be? What specifically has 87% support? That “something should be done” with illegal aliens? That illegal aliens should be given amnesty? That illegal dreamer alien citizenship should be placed ahead of all of the legal aliens who are attempting to become U.S. citizens? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/559 "2018-01-25T20:47:06Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > What rights were they supporting that US citizens dont have? The right to live here?:rolleyes: > > In 2013 the GOP shut down the governmnet over the fact that the Democrats wanted to let people have health care. Then you agree that in 2018, elected Democrats chose to shut down the government to promote illegal aliens. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968/560 "2018-01-25T20:47:53Z")
Read the poll. I already cited it, here’s another chance to look at it: [http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/369487-poll-nearly-nine-in-10-favor-allowing-daca-recipients-to-stay](http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/369487-poll-nearly-nine-in-10-favor-allowing-daca-recipients-to-stay) “According to the survey, almost 9 in 10 respondents — 87 percent — said they believe that the so-called Dreamers should be allowed to remain in the U.S. if they meet certain requirements, such as working or going to school.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968.md?page=27) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-defend-your-senators-holding-the-budget-bill-hostage/806968.md?page=29)