# Dems Need to Accept Moderates on Abortion= capture the House **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 13, 2012, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-need-to-accept-moderates-on-abortion-capture-the-house/621819 "2012-05-13T23:52:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![independentDemocrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ba9def/32.png) [@independentDemocrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/independentDemocrat)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2012, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-need-to-accept-moderates-on-abortion-capture-the-house/621819/1 "2012-05-13T23:52:35Z")
It is time for the Democratic Party to adopt moderate candidates on abortion back into the Party. I have seen many sincere Democrats get thrown out of the Party through financial woes or primary challengers specifically, over this issue. It is time to bring the Catholic vote back to its Kennedy roots. Its time to bring all Latino and especially, Mexican voters back into the Party. And its time to pass an actual health care bill that assists the poor since, many moderates abandoned the issue over abortion… causing everyone in the nation to lose comprehensive care and thus, life. Also, abortion does not even fit into the historical narrative of the Democratic Party. The Party that has always championed the rights of minorities and the poor needs to also, champion the rights of the unborn. Without the Democrats there would be no Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, a minimum wage, child labor laws, or a living wage. In fact, abortion was approved by Republican Nixon & upheld by Ford & Reagan… Please look into Nixon’s reasons for why he supported abortion (on his secret White House tapes) & you will learn the gruesome truth of the matter. A matter that the Democrats must turn from and continue to seek to help the poor through education, a decent wage, and economic rights… as most abortions occur for economic reasons… Even President Jimmy Carter came out recently and said that the issue was hurting the Party in the South specifically… ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2012, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-need-to-accept-moderates-on-abortion-capture-the-house/621819/2 "2012-05-13T23:56:34Z")
Reported. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-need-to-accept-moderates-on-abortion-capture-the-house/621819/3 "2012-05-14T00:12:24Z")
> [@independentDemocrat](#): > > I have seen many sincere Democrats get thrown out of the Party through financial woes or primary challengers specifically, over this issue. Cite? (If this doesn’t get closed) I have no doubt some politician or other has lost due to their position on abortion (and that certainly works both ways). Can you show the democratic party has this as a litmus test and has a Tea Party-like wing which can, with some regularity and chance of success, toss democratic candidates on this issue alone? ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-need-to-accept-moderates-on-abortion-capture-the-house/621819/4 "2012-05-14T00:14:15Z")
So by “moderates” you mean “pro-lifers.” Oookay. Well, there are pro-life Dems. I think the deeper problem is that there is no unified voice for economic progressivism, and we have a bunch of hard-right Bourbon Democrats (now rebranded as “Blue Dogs”) calling themselves “moderates.” Maybe if you want to save the agenda of FDR, Truman, LBJ, etc. you should be willing to compromise on the abortion issue a little. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-need-to-accept-moderates-on-abortion-capture-the-house/621819/5 "2012-05-14T00:17:20Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Cite? (If this doesn’t get closed) > > I have no doubt some politician or other has lost due to their position on abortion (and that certainly works both ways). > > Can you show the democratic party has this as a litmus test and has a Tea Party-like wing which can, with some regularity and chance of success, toss democratic candidates on this issue alone? Yeah, if anything the GOP is doing their version of what the OP is asking the Dems to do. I don’t see the Dems having any counterpart to the TPers enforcing some kind of purity test. I don’t know for sure, but it wouldn’t surprise me if there were more pro-life Dems in the House than pro-choice Pubs. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-need-to-accept-moderates-on-abortion-capture-the-house/621819/6 "2012-05-14T00:25:04Z")
**independentDemocrat** , I’ve removed the link to the petition from your post. We have rules against soliciting people to join causes or sign petitions that way. I will leave this thread open in case people want to discuss the issue. For the record, there are at least two pro-life Democrats in the Senate: Bob Casey of Pennsylvania and Senate Majority Leader Reid. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-need-to-accept-moderates-on-abortion-capture-the-house/621819/7 "2012-05-14T00:26:52Z")
> [@independentDemocrat](#): > > I have seen many sincere Democrats get thrown out of the Party through financial woes or primary challengers specifically, over this issue. If you had written “Republicans,” I would believe you. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-need-to-accept-moderates-on-abortion-capture-the-house/621819/8 "2012-05-14T00:28:11Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > We have rules against soliciting people to join causes or sign petitions that way. Just out of curiosity, is there any Dope forum where we **can** do that? Marketplace, perhaps? ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-need-to-accept-moderates-on-abortion-capture-the-house/621819/9 "2012-05-14T01:26:14Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > **independentDemocrat** , I’ve removed the link to the petition from your post. We have rules against soliciting people to join causes or sign petitions that way. I will leave this thread open in case people want to discuss the issue. > > For the record, there are at least two pro-life Democrats in the Senate: Bob Casey of Pennsylvania and Senate Majority Leader Reid. Sen. Joe Manchin (D-WV) is also explicitly pro-life. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-need-to-accept-moderates-on-abortion-capture-the-house/621819/10 "2012-05-14T02:09:27Z")
> [@independentDemocrat](#): > > And its time to pass an actual health care bill that assists the poor since, many moderates abandoned the issue over abortion… _If_ they did that, they weren’t moderates; they were single issue voters. Nor is the anti-abortion position a moderate one. > [@independentDemocrat](#): > > Also, abortion does not even fit into the historical narrative of the Democratic Party. The Party that has always championed the rights of minorities and the poor needs to also, champion the rights of the unborn. Garbage. Opposing abortion would only fit their “historical narrative” if you go back to the days when they were the pro-slavery party. Forbidding abortion is about oppressing, humiliating, tormenting and killing women; the “unborn” are mindless pieces of tissue, not people, and the “pro-life” crowd only cares about them as far as they can be used as a club to beat women down with. The antiabortion movement is sadistically anti-woman and anti-poor, and the last thing the Democrats should want is to become more bigoted and sadistic. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-need-to-accept-moderates-on-abortion-capture-the-house/621819/11 "2012-05-14T02:13:50Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > The antiabortion movement is sadistically anti-woman and anti-poor, and the last thing the Democrats should want is to become more bigoted and sadistic. Actually, Democrats could **do** with being a bit more sadistic. Just to keep up. I’m tired of playing baseball on a battlefield. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-need-to-accept-moderates-on-abortion-capture-the-house/621819/12 "2012-05-14T02:19:51Z")
[quote=“foolsguinea, post:4, topic:621819”] So by “moderates” you mean “pro-lifers.” Oookay. Well, there are pro-life Dems.QUOTE] :raises hand: ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-need-to-accept-moderates-on-abortion-capture-the-house/621819/13 "2012-05-14T02:27:10Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > So by “moderates” you mean “pro-lifers.” I agree with the spirit of your comment but to be fair, what _would_ a moderate on abortion look like? Wanting the status quo, which _should_ rationally brand one as a moderate on most any issue, would make you “pro-choice” in this situation. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-need-to-accept-moderates-on-abortion-capture-the-house/621819/14 "2012-05-14T02:34:25Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Actually, Democrats could **do** with being a bit more sadistic. Just to keep up. I’m tired of playing baseball on a battlefield. They need to be more angry, unforgiving and aggressive, not sadistic; sadists waste time hurting people and don’t accomplish much _useful_. > [@Ludovic](#): > > I agree with the spirit of your comment but to be fair, what _would_ a moderate on abortion look like? She only has to give birth to half the baby. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-need-to-accept-moderates-on-abortion-capture-the-house/621819/15 "2012-05-14T02:38:56Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > I agree with the spirit of your comment but to be fair, what _would_ a moderate on abortion look like? Wanting the status quo, which _should_ rationally brand one as a moderate on most any issue, would make you “pro-choice” in this situation. I can’t speak for everyone but: - Extreme 1: Wanting abortion legal right up till the woman gives birth, solely at her discretion. - Extreme 2: Wanting abortion outlawed in all cases and no allowance for rape or incest or health of the mother. Seems to me the moderate position is something like abortion allowed in the first trimester at the choice of the woman. Second trimester if genetic defects are found and up to the woman to decide. Third trimester only if the mother’s health is severely impacted. I am not saying the above is without debate but it is a position between the two extremes thus by definition a moderate one. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-need-to-accept-moderates-on-abortion-capture-the-house/621819/16 "2012-05-14T03:13:52Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I can’t speak for everyone but: > > - Extreme 1: Wanting abortion legal right up till the woman gives birth, solely at her discretion. > > - Extreme 2: Wanting abortion outlawed in all cases and no allowance for rape or incest or health of the mother. > > Seems to me the moderate position is something like abortion allowed in the first trimester at the choice of the woman. Second trimester if genetic defects are found and up to the woman to decide. Third trimester only if the mother’s health is severely impacted. > > I am not saying the above is without debate but it is a position between the two extremes thus by definition a moderate one. In reality, though, the radical “pro-abortion” Extreme 1 end of your spectrum hardly even exists. Is there **any** significant political pressure **anywhere** in this country for completely unregulated discretionary abortion right up until the moment of birth? I don’t know of any individual or group that supports that position. However, there **is** considerable real-life political pressure for the radical “anti-abortion” Extreme 2 position and positions very close to it, so ISTM that your definition of “moderate”, in the sense of a middle ground between two extremes, is way skewed. The “pro-abortion” side of the spectrum pretty much stops at the “moderate” position you’ve outlined, AFAICT. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-need-to-accept-moderates-on-abortion-capture-the-house/621819/17 "2012-05-14T03:25:53Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > In reality, though, the radical “pro-abortion” Extreme 1 end of your spectrum hardly even exists. Is there **any** significant political pressure **anywhere** in this country for completely unregulated discretionary abortion right up until the moment of birth? I don’t know of any individual or group that supports that position. > > However, there **is** considerable real-life political pressure for the radical “anti-abortion” Extreme 2 position and positions very close to it, so ISTM that your definition of “moderate”, in the sense of a middle ground between two extremes, is way skewed. > > The “pro-abortion” side of the spectrum pretty much stops at the “moderate” position you’ve outlined, AFAICT. Generally I agree with you but I have seen a few posters argue the first extreme here on the SDMB. When I asked them about it, a bit stunned myself, they literally held the position that the mother should be able to terminate the child till the moment it was out of her. I don’t get it either and was more than a little stunned at that position. And it remains that those are the two most extreme positions one could take on this issue so staking a middle ground between the two, like I did, has to be a moderate(ish) position. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-need-to-accept-moderates-on-abortion-capture-the-house/621819/18 "2012-05-14T03:33:14Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > She only has to give birth to half the baby. Would that be a “partial-birth abortion”? ---
**Author:** ![Tatterdemalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/43a26b/32.png) [@Tatterdemalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tatterdemalion)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-need-to-accept-moderates-on-abortion-capture-the-house/621819/19 "2012-05-14T03:44:40Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Would that be a “partial-birth abortion”? Wouldn’t it be a partial-abortion birth? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-need-to-accept-moderates-on-abortion-capture-the-house/621819/20 "2012-05-14T03:46:24Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > In reality, though, the radical “pro-abortion” Extreme 1 end of your spectrum hardly even exists. Is there **any** significant political pressure **anywhere** in this country for completely unregulated discretionary abortion right up until the moment of birth? I don’t know of any individual or group that supports that position. This is the case in Canada, as it happens. I’m sure there are regulations concerning who can perform one and who pays for it and so on, but abortion is legal at any time during a woman’s pregnancy here. I’m fine with this. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-need-to-accept-moderates-on-abortion-capture-the-house/621819.md?page=2)