# Dems should confirm Kavanaugh as soon as possible **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 10, 2018, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-should-confirm-kavanaugh-as-soon-as-possible/817685 "2018-07-10T22:51:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2018, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-should-confirm-kavanaugh-as-soon-as-possible/817685/41 "2018-07-11T04:05:25Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > \*\*TonySinclair[/B] is offering the elected Democrats a chance to save face. The elected Democrats can not stop Kavanaugh’s confirmation. Elected Democrats can chose to fight the good fight (continued name-calling, whining, table-pounding), or the elected Democrats could concentrate on trying to actually win something they might be able to win. > > Or maybe the yellow-dog constituents will approve of another noble failure by their elected Democrat Senators? Go team??? Save face? In who’s eyes? The people who voted for them to be their advocates? How does that work? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2018, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-should-confirm-kavanaugh-as-soon-as-possible/817685/42 "2018-07-11T04:07:38Z")
> [@Huey\_Freeman](#): > > Let the Republicans govern by their fucking selves… Democrats are never going to win the public relations battle. Ever. Ignore the Republicans. Let them govern by themselves. Deny them any hint of bipartisanship. Isolate, ostracize, and relentlessly belittle the opposition. While Congress is in session, Democrats should dine at the Red Hen. Refuse to engage with Nazis. Period. This would fire up everyone except moderate Republicans who are three beers from throwing tomatoes at Ruby Bridges, anyway. Aye. Fuck them. And be open about it too: “we’re not going to help these fucking jerks fuck this shit up; they’re fucking it up all on their own”. > [@Huey\_Freeman](#): > > This is all academic and pointless to talk about. Democrats are spineless. If Democrats didn’t shut down the government for DACA recipients or families separated at the border, these white folks sure as hell aren’t gonna shut down the government for some women who think their bodies belong to them. Praise be, ladies; we’ve been sent good weather. Pretty much. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2018, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-should-confirm-kavanaugh-as-soon-as-possible/817685/43 "2018-07-11T04:14:20Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > No, I disagree. What the Democrats need to do is put out the message that they’re the grown-ups and we need to have grown-ups running the country. Let the Republicans throw temper tantrums and shut the government down. The Democrats will be the party that shows up for work in the morning and does their job. Right; because that _hasn’t_ seen the Republicans gain control over more and more local, state and federal elected positions over the past 2 decades, has it? Your preferred strategy is the strategy of losers who will have already ceded procedural control over to the opposition of the entire federal government for the last 2 years and possibly 2 more (we’ll see in November, eh). > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > People need to stop getting so emotionally invested in elections. Treat it like it’s a job interview. Who would you hire to work in your business? The quiet responsible guy who has a steady employment history? Or the guy you met in a bar at three in the morning? The bar guy is probably a lot more fun to hang out with but the quiet guy is the one you want working for you. Fuck that. It is worth being emotionally invested in elections: did you miss the recent immigration debacle? Do you fail to fully grasp how heinous that policy was? Right now, I’m thinking that you do. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Maybe I’m wrong. Maybe the voters are too stupid for democracy to work anymore. Hell, sixty-three million people voted for Donald Trump. But if that’s the case, the Democrats trying to be as dysfunctional as the Republicans isn’t the answer. If it turns out the voters can’t elect a working government anymore we should just abandon democracy as a failed experiment. Strong is not the same as dysfunctional. Assertive is not the same as aggressive. And in this case, capitulation is not the same as “sane and reasonable opposition”. ETA: I wonder: did the OP post a similar thread in 2016, urging the GOP to confirm Merrick Garland asap? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2018, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-should-confirm-kavanaugh-as-soon-as-possible/817685/44 "2018-07-11T05:41:09Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > … At least he’s on record as saying under current law, the President is not protected against subpoena or indictment (he famously said he thinks Congress should pass a law that does just that)… @ **TonySinclair** — I agree with your point that making Republicans angry is not the path to victory. _ **But.** _ Kavanaugh is on record thinking Congress should give the Prez immunity? And he’s the man chosen by Prez Asshole himself? The Constitution is a supple document. I’ll bet that if the question of Trump’s immunity comes before the Supreme Court, Kavanaugh will side with the evil-doers. Do we have a bet? One pennyweight of diazepam? ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2018, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-should-confirm-kavanaugh-as-soon-as-possible/817685/45 "2018-07-11T06:16:30Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > ETA: I wonder: did the OP post a similar thread in 2016, urging the GOP to confirm Merrick Garland asap? What a stupid question. The world has changed a lot since then, so it’s a completely different situation now. Even if it weren’t, the fact that I did or didn’t would have relevance only to my consistency, not to the merits of my argument. Actually, I don’t remember, but I probably posted something to the effect that McConnell was an asshole for not allowing Obama his pick. So in that sense, I _am_ being consistent. Except I wouldn’t call Schumer an asshole if he drags this out; I’d just think he was tragically wrong. What I do remember posting in early 2016 was the hope that Trump would become the Republican nominee, because I thought he was a joke and would lose in a landslide. I was half right. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2018, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-should-confirm-kavanaugh-as-soon-as-possible/817685/46 "2018-07-11T06:20:56Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Right; because that _hasn’t_ seen the Republicans gain control over more and more local, state and federal elected positions over the past 2 decades, has it? > > Your preferred strategy is the strategy of losers who will have already ceded procedural control over to the opposition of the entire federal government for the last 2 years and possibly 2 more (we’ll see in November, eh). > > Fuck that. It is worth being emotionally invested in elections: did you miss the recent immigration debacle? Do you fail to fully grasp how heinous that policy was? Right now, I’m thinking that you do. So what are you suggesting? That the Democrats should beat the Republicans by becoming just like the Republicans? If they do, why would it matter which party we vote for? Democrats need to get the message out that there is a difference between the two parties. That the Democrats are right and the Republicans are wrong. And then they need to tell people why being right matters. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2018, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-should-confirm-kavanaugh-as-soon-as-possible/817685/47 "2018-07-11T06:22:24Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I’ll bet that if the question of Trump’s immunity comes before the Supreme Court, Kavanaugh will side with the evil-doers. Do we have a bet? No, but I would bet the same way for anyone Trump nominated, so that’s irrelevant. What IS relevant is that no matter what the Court decides about indicting a sitting President, Trump can be indicted if he’s impeached and convicted. And the only way that will happen is if Dems win a lot of seats in November. That is my goal, and I think it’s a much better goal than showing people that Dems will fight for a lost cause. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2018, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-should-confirm-kavanaugh-as-soon-as-possible/817685/48 "2018-07-11T06:22:43Z")
Betcha if you went to a pro-life message board today, right now…you already know what you’ll see. Us monkeys is predictable. **LifeLover1092** demands that any candidate for SCOTUS must clearly and forcefully articulate a determination to pound a flaming stake in the dark heart of Roe v. Wade. Anything less is not good enough to support. **Babysaver 322** points out that Kavanaugh was vetted by a dedicated pro-lifer, no need to rock the boat, get the other side all upset… **KillRoeWasHere** calls BS on that, been working on it for years, voting, donating, supporting and today is PAYDAY, dammit! Who cares what those losers think, ram it down their throats, they probably like that sort of thing anyway! **DiaperDan** chimes in, maybe we could be nicer, draw some flies… **KillRoeWasHere** pops up with the news that Pence was interviewed, saying that neither he nor Trump knew if Kavanaugh even _had_ a position, they didn’t ask, no “litmus test” because that’s not good…proof positive that the Republicans were going to betray their trust _again_! They must all write and email everybody and demand…you know the drill. (The Pence thing is for real, by the way. CNN, I think.) ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2018, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-should-confirm-kavanaugh-as-soon-as-possible/817685/49 "2018-07-11T06:45:00Z")
The Democrats probably can’t stop the nomination but putting up a good fight will excite their base which is important for the upcoming elections. Furthermore attacking the pro-business parts of his record is a good way of promoting their own economic message and highlighting how Trump’s populism is largely a sham ; this could help them regain some voters they have lost recently as well as attract uncommitted voters. They should also highlight that Roe V Wade, which is pretty popular, is in danger. Democrats have to reconcile themselves to a conservative SCOTUS majority for probably the next decade but they can turn lemons into lemonade. Much of the conservative judicial agenda is unpopular and a useful foil for Democrats to help them win elections which is what ultimately matters. Furthermore, the more energetically Democrats attack that agenda, the the tougher it will be for the justices to enact it. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2018, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-should-confirm-kavanaugh-as-soon-as-possible/817685/50 "2018-07-11T07:29:52Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > \*\*TonySinclair[/B] is offering the elected Democrats a chance to save face. The elected Democrats can not stop Kavanaugh’s confirmation. Elected Democrats can chose to fight the good fight (continued name-calling, whining, table-pounding), or the elected Democrats could concentrate on trying to actually win something they might be able to win. How many times did Republicans vote to abolish Obamacare when it had no chance of passing the Senate? Like 50? And where did that get them? _Majority control of the entire federal government._ ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2018, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-should-confirm-kavanaugh-as-soon-as-possible/817685/51 "2018-07-11T11:02:04Z")
> [@Huey\_Freeman](#): > > Democrats should do the following: > > 1. Refuse to vote for the must-pass spending bill that must pass by September 30th. > 2. Shutdown the government until further notice > 3. Deny Republicans quorum. > 4. Leave Congress entirely. Let the Republicans govern the government themselves. Alone. > Rest easy, though. Democrats are too spineless to do any of this. If they do what you advocate, the Democrats will look horrible and they will surely snatch defeat from the jaws of victory in the mid-terms. That would be an epic disaster, and they’re taking a big risk if they go out of their way to obstruct without making a solid case to do so. They might have an argument, but it can’t be “We’re not putting another conservative on the bench” Some have argued that the real error was made by Obama. He should have answered Mitch McConnell’s obstructionism with some constitutional tricks of his own and appointed his own justice to the bench and dared the Republicans to fight him on it. That’s a strategy that actually might have worked, but we’ll never know. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2018, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-should-confirm-kavanaugh-as-soon-as-possible/817685/52 "2018-07-11T11:13:10Z")
> [@Troy\_McClure](#): > > Presumably the best outcome for the Democrats would be to turn out as many of their voters as possible in November. This is what has to happen - full stop. The voters have to come out and vote against plutocratic rule and they have to vote for the preservation of their democracy. If they throw a fit and stay at home because Democrats don’t successfully obstruct or don’t shut down the government, then they’re basically stabbing themselves in the eye with a pencil. Some voters wanted purity in 2016 and stayed home or voted third party. What we got was Neil Gorsuch. We got a trade war. We got inhumane detention camps with refugees treated like animals. We got a president and a party that is more aligned with Russia’s interests than with our own. We got a Muslim ban. We got corruption and graft like this country’s never seen. We’ve got a president and our party threatening freedom of the press and threatening to end the rule of law. If this isn’t enough to motivate the average progressive voter, then our republic is fucked. You vote against Trumpism. Period. End of discussion. You don’t need another reason to show up and vote. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2018, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-should-confirm-kavanaugh-as-soon-as-possible/817685/53 "2018-07-11T11:18:04Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Strong is not the same as dysfunctional. Assertive is not the same as aggressive. And in this case, capitulation is not the same as “sane and reasonable opposition”. > > ETA: I wonder: did the OP post a similar thread in 2016, urging the GOP to confirm Merrick Garland asap? …you do realize that the GOP had a majority in the Senate then, right? If the Dems had a majority in the Senate now, I’m guessing ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2018, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-should-confirm-kavanaugh-as-soon-as-possible/817685/54 "2018-07-11T11:52:58Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > …you do realize that the GOP had a majority in the Senate then, right? If the Dems had a majority in the Senate now, I’m guessing Sorry: “I’m guessing the OP’s advice would be different.” ---
**Author:** ![Huey\_Freeman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/huey_freeman/32/251_2.png) [@Huey\_Freeman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huey_Freeman)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2018, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-should-confirm-kavanaugh-as-soon-as-possible/817685/55 "2018-07-11T12:18:25Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > If they do what you advocate, the Democrats will look horrible and they will surely snatch defeat from the jaws of victory in the mid-terms. That would be an epic disaster, and they’re taking a big risk if they go out of their way to obstruct without making a solid case to do so. They might have an argument, but it can’t be “We’re not putting another conservative on the bench” > > Some have argued that the real error was made by Obama. He should have answered Mitch McConnell’s obstructionism with some constitutional tricks of his own and appointed his own justice to the bench and dared the Republicans to fight him on it. That’s a strategy that actually might have worked, but we’ll never know. This shit crazy. Make Democrats look horrible and crazy? Compared to what? Trump? LOL. I can’t wait till we snatch the Democratic party from white folks. Ya’ll ruining it. ---
**Author:** ![Delicious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@Delicious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Delicious)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2018, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-should-confirm-kavanaugh-as-soon-as-possible/817685/56 "2018-07-11T12:23:32Z")
The Democrats need to think outside the box, maybe they can all go round licking ill people in hospital then go cough all over the Republican Senators, challenge Trump to a duel, eat so many beans that the senate building gets so farty no-one can speak, fling their poop at the speaker, blast airhorns whenever someone tries to bring something up for a vote, all the male senators get naked and rub themselves all over the republican’s stuff so they don’t want to be in the room. Or all the above at once. If they don’t do that, they clearly love Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2018, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-should-confirm-kavanaugh-as-soon-as-possible/817685/57 "2018-07-11T12:23:32Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **TonySinclair** : > > What IS relevant is that no matter what the Court decides about indicting a sitting President, Trump can be indicted if he’s impeached and convicted. If he can be impeached. Remember, Kavanaugh is on record as saying that it shouldn’t be possible to even investigate the President, and it’s hard to impeach without an investigation. Which is, of course, why Trump nominated him. He’s scared shitless of Mueller, and wants to shut him down, because he has too much to hide. Like the fact that he’s flat broke and deep in debt. Like the fact that he enjoys being sexually humiliated. And yes, like the fact that he’s on Putin’s payroll. And that’s the message that we need to get out. EDIT: And, of course, the fact that that’s the _only_ reason that Trump nominated him. He doesn’t give a damn about abortion, or about any other conservative issues: He just wants someone to protect him because he’s scared, and that’s all he wants. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2018, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-should-confirm-kavanaugh-as-soon-as-possible/817685/58 "2018-07-11T12:56:54Z")
1. Midterms are all about turning out your voters. Maybe Presidential elections are about appealing to the median voter (although I believe this less as time goes by, but I digress), but midterms aren’t. Give Dem voters reason to show up and vote. 2. You don’t enthuse your voters by rolling over and playing dead. 3. It’s true that the Dems are unlikely to win this particular fight. But I’m with Josh Marshall: if you can’t win a fight like this, it’s important to lose well. This is a fight where the Dems can highlight the differences between the two parties. Not just _Roe_: Kavanaugh’s consistently ruled in favor of big corporations and against consumers, employees, unions. [Here’s a good example](https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/07/brett-kavanaugh-seaworld): > [@](#): > > One fun example of the conservative judge’s take on workers’ rights is his dissent—the only one—in a case involving the SeaWorld trainer who was eaten by a killer whale during a performance in 2010, the third time the whale had been “involved in a human death.” While his colleagues upheld a prior ruling that the theme park had violated safety standards by “exposing . . . trainers to recognized hazards when working in close contact with killer whales during performances,” Kavanaugh thought that was bullshit, writing that lots of sports are dangerous, but that doesn’t mean the Labor Department should use its authority to implement regulations aimed at minimizing the chances that trainers will be eaten in full view of paying customers. Why should businesses be penalized if their whales have a persistent habit of eating the help? _Jeez._ Yeah, fight this one. Fight like hell. Demand to see all the Bush-era and Starr Inquisition documents Kavanaugh wrote or signed off on. Drag this out, every day or two, bring up a new example of when Kavanaugh voted for the corporations and against ordinary people, make sure the voters know exactly who the GOP is voting for, when it votes to put this horrible excuse for a human being on the Supreme Court. Maybe it’ll even give Collins or Murkowski enough indigestion to vote against him. (Not expecting it, but one can hope. But I don’t buy the argument that another nominee would be even worse - _how much worse can s/he be?_ This guy will vote the GOP-approved way 99.5% of the time.) Twenty months ago, I assumed Obamacare was doomed. (It’s in the intensive care ward, sure, but it’s still alive aenough to insure people.) But we fought the good fight last year, and kept Congress, at least, from killing it. And Dem approval went up, and GOP and Trump approval went down. Fighting the big battles is the right thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2018, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-should-confirm-kavanaugh-as-soon-as-possible/817685/59 "2018-07-11T13:12:14Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > If he can be impeached. Remember, Kavanaugh is on record as saying that it shouldn’t be possible to even investigate the President, and it’s hard to impeach without an investigation. Just to be clear, he has argued that Congress should pass such a law, not that such a law already exists. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2018, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-should-confirm-kavanaugh-as-soon-as-possible/817685/60 "2018-07-11T13:23:46Z")
Yes, hence why I said “shouldn’t”, not “isn’t”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-should-confirm-kavanaugh-as-soon-as-possible/817685.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dems-should-confirm-kavanaugh-as-soon-as-possible/817685.md?page=4)