# Denatured alcohol - wait, WTF **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 24, 2022, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/denatured-alcohol-wait-wtf/970238 "2022-08-24T18:48:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2022, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/denatured-alcohol-wait-wtf/970238/21 "2022-08-24T21:43:09Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > Wayne Wheeler was never a member of the US Government, legislature or law enforcement. Using his words to explain the policy is misleading. Wheeler was an incredible powerful lobbyist who had his fingerprints all over the passage of prohibition and its enforcement. As a member of the temperance movement he helped write anti-alcohol legislation. The New York Herald Tribune said in its obituary of him: “Without Wayne B. Wheeler’s generalship it is more than likely we should never have had the Eighteenth Amendment.” ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2022, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/denatured-alcohol-wait-wtf/970238/22 "2022-08-24T21:46:22Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > The implication that they wanted to secretly make it poisonous isn’t supported by facts. Who implied that it was secret? That it was intentionally made poisonous is just the historical record, whereas their efforts toward making it unpalatable were weak at best, and often nonexistent. Methanol often was the sole adulterant. The goal of reducing consumption by poisoning people would only work if it was public information. That was the whole point. That doesn’t make it not intentional poisoning. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2022, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/denatured-alcohol-wait-wtf/970238/23 "2022-08-24T22:02:09Z")
I gotta say, I’m surprised to find disagreement today over whether deliberately poisoning alcohol was a good thing or bad thing. Even in the 1920’s there was a huge outcry, and I’d like to think we’ve learned some lessons since then. From Deborah Blum, author of _The Poisoner’s Handbook: Murder and the Birth of Forensic Medicine in Jazz Age New York_ referenced in the links above (and a fascinating book, I highly recommend it): > We need to know that our government is capable of these things. Let’s not be naive about it. If you can go back 100 years and see the government seems okay with sacrificing American citizens to enforce its laws, that is worth remembering. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2022, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/denatured-alcohol-wait-wtf/970238/24 "2022-08-24T22:03:06Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > The alcohol in mouthwash will get you off as well. The dollar store variety used to be 28% which is 56 proof, quite a wallop. We used to see bums drinking it all the time. I believe the amount has been lowered to like 5% which makes a bottle of it more expensive than beer with higher ABV which is why we rarely see anyone drinking it anymore. I had a friend in the 80’s who drove cab. In those days, you could order stuff from a drugstore or supermarket and have it delivered by cab. He had a regular client who had a large bottle of Nyquil (30% ethanol in those days) delivered to a hotel room every night. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2022, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/denatured-alcohol-wait-wtf/970238/25 "2022-08-24T22:10:55Z")
> [@Keeve](#): > > “Denatonium”??? Seriously? Sounds like an obviously fake word. I thought it was the primer for the Illudium Q-36 Explosive Space Modulator. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2022, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/denatured-alcohol-wait-wtf/970238/26 "2022-08-24T22:42:14Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > I’ve had to deal with homeless drunks who mixed it with water and drink mix to make street punch. Considering how cheap booze is in my location I wonder why anyone would try this. > > **The alcohol in mouthwash will get you off as well.** One would think cheap booze falls within the same price point as mouthwash, as well. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2022, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/denatured-alcohol-wait-wtf/970238/27 "2022-08-24T22:43:04Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Not rubbing alcohol – that’s isopropyl, which a.) isn’t really potable and b.) won’t get you drunk. > > Denatured alcohol is ethanol 9the kind you drink) to which some adulterant has been added that will make you sick if you drink it – benzene was one they used to use. I don’t know what they use now. Ignorance fought, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2022, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/denatured-alcohol-wait-wtf/970238/28 "2022-08-24T22:47:40Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Illudium Q-36 Explosive Space Modulator. Is that you, Marvin? ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2022, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/denatured-alcohol-wait-wtf/970238/29 "2022-08-24T22:53:10Z")
You can find mouthwash 24 hrs a day, most jurisdictions don’t allow 24 hour alcohol sales. ---
**Author:** ![Bootb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19b73/32.png) [@Bootb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootb)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2022, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/denatured-alcohol-wait-wtf/970238/30 "2022-08-24T23:55:20Z")
When I was in high school c. 25 years ago, denatured ethanol was used in chemistry classes. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2022, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/denatured-alcohol-wait-wtf/970238/31 "2022-08-25T00:10:25Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > “The government is under no obligation to furnish the people with alcohol that is drinkable, when the Constitution prohibits it,” he told the press. “The person who drinks this alcohol is a deliberate suicide.” Daniel Okrent, Closing Time: The Rise and Fall of Prohibition, my copy. Good old Mr. Wheeler. His opponents called him out on his hypocrisy. One of the reasons the Anti-Saloon League wanted to enact prohibition was to save lives, but here was Mr. Wheeler advocating the government taking action known to end lives. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2022, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/denatured-alcohol-wait-wtf/970238/32 "2022-08-25T00:28:06Z")
Yeah and then you had temperance movements working with the Klan to enforce prohibition (the Klan saw booze as something immigrants did) and prohibition got weird real quick. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2022, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/denatured-alcohol-wait-wtf/970238/33 "2022-08-25T01:47:01Z")
> [@Lucas\_Jackson](#): > > > [@pkbites](#): > > > > I’ve had to deal with homeless drunks who mixed it with water and drink mix to make street punch. Considering how cheap booze is in my location I wonder why anyone would try this. > > > > **The alcohol in mouthwash will get you off as well.** > > One would think cheap booze falls within the same price point as mouthwash, as well. Not when 28% ABV mouthwash was a dollar for a 24 ounce bottle. I don’t know if it was cause/effect but the level is now only about 5%. Which, as I mentioned, may be why we don’t see many people drinking it any more. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2022, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/denatured-alcohol-wait-wtf/970238/34 "2022-08-25T01:51:34Z")
> [@Lucas\_Jackson](#): > > > [@CalMeacham](#): > > > > Not rubbing alcohol – that’s isopropyl, which a.) isn’t really potable and b.) won’t get you drunk. > > > > Denatured alcohol is ethanol 9the kind you drink) to which some adulterant has been added that will make you sick if you drink it – benzene was one they used to use. I don’t know what they use now. > > Ignorance fought, thanks. Not if you buy the idea that isopropyl won’t get you drunk, because it will. It will also make you real sick and even real dead. During the height of the pandemic thefts of the solution bags from hand sanitizing stations was a huge thing. So were incidents of intoxicated homeless people curled up in a ball in parking structures after drinking it. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2022, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/denatured-alcohol-wait-wtf/970238/35 "2022-08-25T01:57:39Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > Not when 28% ABV mouthwash was a dollar for a 24 ounce bottle. I don’t know if it was cause/effect but the level is now only about 5%. Original formula Listerine is 26.9% abv. Original formula Scope is 18.9% (label says 15% by weight; another formula I’m looking at has 13% by weight). This is from looking at labels on the Target website. The Scope is $5 for 34 oz. You can get the store brand (Up & Up) of Listerine (26.9% abv) for $3.69 for 50.7 oz. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2022, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/denatured-alcohol-wait-wtf/970238/36 "2022-08-25T02:00:36Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > The alcohol in mouthwash will get you off as well. The dollar store variety used to be 28% which is 56 proof, quite a wallop. We used to see bums drinking it all the time. I believe the amount has been lowered to like 5% which makes a bottle of it more expensive than beer with higher ABV which is why we rarely see anyone drinking it anymore. The store brand mouthwash I use is 21.6%. ([TopCare](https://topcarebrand.com/)) ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2022, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/denatured-alcohol-wait-wtf/970238/37 "2022-08-25T02:02:03Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > > [@pkbites](#): > > > > Not when 28% ABV mouthwash was a dollar for a 24 ounce bottle. I don’t know if it was cause/effect but the level is now only about 5%. > > Original formula Listerine is 26.9% abv. Original formula Scope is 18.9% (label says 15% by weight; another formula I’m looking at has 13% by weight). This is from looking at labels on the Target website. The Scope is $5 for 34 oz. You can get the store brand (Up & Up) of Listerine (26.9% abv) for $3.69 for 50.7 oz. I was talking strictly the dollar store stuff. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2022, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/denatured-alcohol-wait-wtf/970238/38 "2022-08-25T02:34:54Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > The main quibble is with @gnoitall’s asinine take. You are certainly free to disagree with @gnoitall’s take on it, but dial it back a bit, please. This isn’t the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2022, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/denatured-alcohol-wait-wtf/970238/39 "2022-08-25T02:41:40Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > That said, the point remains. Characterizing this as “the gummint is evil” is bullshit. They did it to curb the abuse of a controlled and industrial substance. No, the “gummint” is/was not evil, the head of prohibition was, or in this case, Wheeler. The idea was not to make it unpalatable or add bittering agents. It was to kill drinkers. ---
**Author:** ![am77494](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d2c977/32.png) [@am77494](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/am77494)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2022, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/denatured-alcohol-wait-wtf/970238/40 "2022-08-25T12:15:27Z")
I am not aware of the prohibition era, but today there are regulations for denaturing ethanol for use in different applications. There are hundreds of uses of denatured alcohol, some of them are : Shellac Coatings, Cosmetics, Fuel, Shampoos and soap etc. etc. Depending on the end use, the denaturing agent can be something as benign as vinegar or something very toxic. The idea is to keep it unpalatable while keeping it safe for use - like say for a shampoo, it needs to be safe to the scalp. There is a list of all denaturing formulas and their approved use here : [eCFR :: 27 CFR Part 21 -- Formulas for Denatured Alcohol and Rum](https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-27/chapter-I/subchapter-A/part-21) For example : ## [§ 21.49 Formula No. 23-H.](https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-27/section-21.49) (a) _Formula._ To every 100 gallons of alcohol add: Eight gallons of acetone, U.S.P., and 1.5 gallons of methyl isobutyl ketone. (b) _Authorized uses._ (1) As a solvent: 1. Hair and scalp preparations. 2. Lotions and creams (hand, face, and body). 3. External pharmaceuticals, not U.S.P. or N.F. 4. Rubbing alcohols. 5. Disinfectants, insecticides, fungicides, and other biocides. 6. Cleaning solutions (including household detergents). (2) Miscellaneous uses: 1. Product development and pilot plant uses (own use only). [T.D. ATF-133, [48 FR 24673](https://www.federalregister.gov/citation/48-FR-24673), June 2, 1983, as amended by T.D. TTB-140, [81 FR 59461](https://www.federalregister.gov/citation/81-FR-59461), Aug. 30, 2016] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/denatured-alcohol-wait-wtf/970238.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/denatured-alcohol-wait-wtf/970238.md?page=3)