# Denver Suburb wants to make it a crime to hire a day laborer. WTF? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 29, 2006, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/denver-suburb-wants-to-make-it-a-crime-to-hire-a-day-laborer-wtf/370628 "2006-08-29T04:41:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2006, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/denver-suburb-wants-to-make-it-a-crime-to-hire-a-day-laborer-wtf/370628/41 "2006-08-29T16:25:43Z")
[QUOTE=Anne Neville] The thing is, a lot of people _say_ they’re against illegal immigrants, but if you listen further, they trot out arguments against things like Spanish-language radio and television, or various other things that have to do with the language or culture of immigrants and have nothing to do with their legal or illegal status. It’s kind of like people who say they’re against something Israel is doing, but eventually it comes out that they’re against Israel or Jews in general, or people who say they’re against crime in black communities, but are using that as a smokescreen for their disapproval of some aspect of black culture. It’s the kind of statement that has, unfortunately, been used by enough bigots that it has to be carefully qualified if it’s going to be used by a non-bigot. [/QUOTE] I don’t agree. A statement stands or falls on its own merits. You’re saying that because bigots ALSO say they’re against illegal immigration, a non-bigot who expresses his opposition to illegal immigration must carefully qualify his position. Sorry - I don’t accept that necessity. ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2006, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/denver-suburb-wants-to-make-it-a-crime-to-hire-a-day-laborer-wtf/370628/42 "2006-08-29T16:44:54Z")
[QUOTE=Airman Doors, USAF] For about the millionth time, having a problem with illegal immigration does not make one a bigot, and I’d thank you to stop saying that because that is an extremely disingenuous argument. [/QUOTE] Actually, there might be something to this. I am absolutely convinced, that human beings in general, and Americans in particular, need someone to HATE. Some disenfranchised underclass of people, that we can separate from, point fingers at, and laugh at them and say, “at least I’m not anything like THAT jerkass!” Problem is, there aren’t many disenfranchised groups left, thanks to the virulent spread of Political Correctness. We can’t demonize blacks, Jews, or gays anymore. Cigarette smokers used to be a hot item (ironically, Colorado recently passed a sweeping anti-smoking law) but that’s become passe. Gang members? Too 90’s. Pedophiles? Too scary and unreliable, just look how the John Mark Karr case turned out (man, what a ratings loss that was for the networks!) High school bullies can’t even pick on those weird-looking kids anymore, not since they started picking up guns and shooting up their classmates. What’s left? Illegal immigrants. And it’s disingenuous to think there isn’t a little bit of racial bias here, since all the debate you hear and all the pictures you see are about immigrants from BROWN countries. Heck, I live in a neighborhood where 10% of the population is fresh off the boat from Russia & other Eastern European countries, and certainly not all of them are legal…but do we complain about them? Nope, it’s that Guatemalan maid and that Mexican waking me up with the leafblower at 8 a.m., those are the so-called “criminals” that appear on the news. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2006, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/denver-suburb-wants-to-make-it-a-crime-to-hire-a-day-laborer-wtf/370628/43 "2006-08-29T16:50:13Z")
Of course, there is another issue here- almost no one pays Employment taxes (etc) on day laborers, so there’s a tax evasion issue too. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2006, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/denver-suburb-wants-to-make-it-a-crime-to-hire-a-day-laborer-wtf/370628/44 "2006-08-29T18:45:00Z")
You know who was a day labourer? HITLER! Seriously, as a young man in Vienna in 1910, he couldn’t get into an art academy and had a few lean years. I just throw this in for laughs. ---
**Author:** ![hawksgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ed655f/32.png) [@hawksgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hawksgirl)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2006, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/denver-suburb-wants-to-make-it-a-crime-to-hire-a-day-laborer-wtf/370628/45 "2006-08-29T18:55:00Z")
[QUOTE=if6was9] Not fighting here… how is it not about immigration? Who else is hired by the day\* ? [/QUOTE] Um, my ex (US born white guy) worked as a day laborer after getting out of high school while he thought about what he was going to do with his life. He made good money doing it. I think we actually have a business here that puts day laborers with jobs. He’d just go in and see if there was anything for him to do that day, meaning someone came in saying he needed workers and he felt like working that day. He helped a guy move from his house, re-arranging merchandise or some such thing at Home Depot, and all sorts of different things. He was totally legit, and I doubt that the day-labor place asked for a birth certificate for someone who just walks in one day. ---
**Author:** ![Will\_Repair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a698b9/32.png) [@Will\_Repair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Will_Repair)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2006, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/denver-suburb-wants-to-make-it-a-crime-to-hire-a-day-laborer-wtf/370628/46 "2006-08-29T19:19:36Z")
If he was alive today [William E. Miller](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_E._Miller) would be spinning in his grave. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/41988e/32.png) [@El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Cid_Viscoso)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2006, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/denver-suburb-wants-to-make-it-a-crime-to-hire-a-day-laborer-wtf/370628/47 "2006-08-29T19:19:47Z")
[ > [@](#): > > A [US] Senate Budget Committee field hearing on the cost of immigration policies, scheduled for Wednesday in Aurora, has stirred up opposition from local advocacy groups on both sides of the issue. > > … > > “We are very concerned that the hearing will be a one-sided, biased presentation that will attempt to justify an enforcement-only approach to this broken immigration system,” [protest organizer Lisa] Duran said Monday. ]([http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN\_15\_4952608,00.html](http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_4952608,00.html))[Here is some good video of Councilwoman Wallace](http://cbs4denver.com/local/local_story_241102827.html) expressing her views on the matter. ---
**Author:** ![Will\_Repair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a698b9/32.png) [@Will\_Repair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Will_Repair)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2006, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/denver-suburb-wants-to-make-it-a-crime-to-hire-a-day-laborer-wtf/370628/48 "2006-08-29T19:22:36Z")
Er, forgot to mention. During a 60 Minutes interview some years after the '64 election he talked about living on a [cash](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=386058) only basis. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2006, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/denver-suburb-wants-to-make-it-a-crime-to-hire-a-day-laborer-wtf/370628/49 "2006-08-29T19:30:56Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] I don’t agree. A statement stands or falls on its own merits. You’re saying that because bigots ALSO say they’re against illegal immigration, a non-bigot who expresses his opposition to illegal immigration must carefully qualify his position. Sorry - I don’t accept that necessity. [/QUOTE] I don’t think it’s good, but I think it’s often necessary. Negative (in this case, racist) expressions of a particular position tend to overwhelm legitimate uses in what people think of those who use those expressions. Unfortunately, we do sometimes get judged based on what people who hold opinions similar to ours say and do. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2006, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/denver-suburb-wants-to-make-it-a-crime-to-hire-a-day-laborer-wtf/370628/50 "2006-08-29T19:43:34Z")
[QUOTE=if6was9] Maybe not you, **Airman**. But MANY others. I stand by what I said. [/QUOTE] I have to side with Airman Doors here, although I see your point. Yeah, a lot of the “concern” over illegal immigration has to do with racism. But let’s do a thought experiment – suppose we had millions of white Canadians illegally streaming over the border to find jobs and, well, warmth. Would there be “no problem” with that? Would no one be concerned? I think there would STILL be a lot of concern in the US. They would still pose tremendous problems in terms of finding housing and jobs and educating their kids. You wouldn’t have to be a racist to think that’s an issue. And I think many who are concerned about illegal immigration are not racists for that reason. That said, I’m sure the same racists who back the Pubbies because they oppose affirmative action, etc., also are “concerned” about illegal immigration because the people involved are brown. But you should be able to raise the issue on a debate board without being described as a racist, or even considered a potential racist, unless you gave other clues that indicate racism, which I’ve seen no sign of from Airman Doors. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2006, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/denver-suburb-wants-to-make-it-a-crime-to-hire-a-day-laborer-wtf/370628/51 "2006-08-29T19:51:05Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] I don’t agree. A statement stands or falls on its own merits. You’re saying that because bigots ALSO say they’re against illegal immigration, a non-bigot who expresses his opposition to illegal immigration must carefully qualify his position. Sorry - I don’t accept that necessity. [/QUOTE] It’s like saying Hitler was a vegetarian, thus Vegetarians must be Nazis. 😛 **Airman Doors, USAF** is right. Day laborers is not just about illegal immigration, and being against illegal immigration isn’t just about racism. And, I do wish dudes would quit hijacking threads like this one to equate the two. (Yes, **if6was9** , I mean you). ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2006, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/denver-suburb-wants-to-make-it-a-crime-to-hire-a-day-laborer-wtf/370628/52 "2006-08-29T20:38:31Z")
[QUOTE=Anne Neville] Unfortunately, we do sometimes get judged based on what people who hold opinions similar to ours say and do. [/QUOTE] Well, stop it. Your statement is utterly passive. We are on a message baord dedicated to fighting ignorance – and instead of fighting ignorance by attacking those making sweeping generalizations, you call on those being swept to refine their presentation. You’re on the wrong side of this. ---
**Author:** ![Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4da419/32.png) [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gala_Matrix_Fire)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2006, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/denver-suburb-wants-to-make-it-a-crime-to-hire-a-day-laborer-wtf/370628/53 "2006-08-29T21:19:17Z")
Anti-illegal immigrant = racist because none of them are insisting on buiding a wall along the Canadian border. Just the Mexican one. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2006, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/denver-suburb-wants-to-make-it-a-crime-to-hire-a-day-laborer-wtf/370628/54 "2006-08-29T21:39:25Z")
[QUOTE=bluethree] Anti-illegal immigrant = racist because none of them are insisting on buiding a wall along the Canadian border. Just the Mexican one. [/QUOTE] That’s because the difference is tenfold. From [here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_immigration_to_the_United_States#Profile_summaries_of_illegal_immigrants), courtesy of numerous sources, the number of illegal Mexicans amounted to 57% of the total along with another 25% from Latin and South America, who likely did not come in to the country from Canada. That’s 82% who almost certainly came in via our southern border. If you split the rest up you are forced to conclude that nearly 90% of our illegal immigrant population comes from the southern border with Mexico, not from the northern border with Canada. I think it’s easy to see where the problem lies. Simply pointing this out is not racism either, by the way. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2006, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/denver-suburb-wants-to-make-it-a-crime-to-hire-a-day-laborer-wtf/370628/55 "2006-08-29T22:03:07Z")
[QUOTE=Airman Doors, USAF] That’s because the difference is tenfold. [/QUOTE] Indeed, the length of the border is also tenfold- Mexico 350 miles, Canada 4000 miles. It’d cost then \*\*100X \*\* per “illegal” to build a border there. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![percypercy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@percypercy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/percypercy)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2006, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/denver-suburb-wants-to-make-it-a-crime-to-hire-a-day-laborer-wtf/370628/56 "2006-08-29T22:08:19Z")
The man who worked on our yard for fifteen years could be called a day laborer. My parents paid him each day he showed up, and he certainly didn’t have a company name he worked under. That’s quite common for yard work. -Lil ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2006, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/denver-suburb-wants-to-make-it-a-crime-to-hire-a-day-laborer-wtf/370628/57 "2006-08-29T22:10:32Z")
[QUOTE=DrDeth] Indeed, the length of the border is also tenfold- Mexico 350 miles, Canada 4000 miles. It’d cost then \*\*100X \*\* per “illegal” to build a border there. :rolleyes: [/QUOTE] Methinks you did the math wrong. I don’t know what the length of the Mexican border is, but I’ll bet you $100 it’s \> 350 miles. ---
**Author:** ![Mayo\_Speaks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c57346/32.png) [@Mayo\_Speaks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mayo_Speaks)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2006, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/denver-suburb-wants-to-make-it-a-crime-to-hire-a-day-laborer-wtf/370628/58 "2006-08-29T22:49:38Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Methinks you did the math wrong. I don’t know what the length of the Mexican border is, but I’ll bet you $100 it’s \> 350 miles. [/QUOTE] You win the bet. from Wikipedia: US-Mexico: 1951 miles US-Canada: 5522 miles > **[Mexico–United States border](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States-Mexico_border)** > > The international boundary separating Mexico and United States extends from the Pacific Ocean to the Gulf of Mexico. The border traverses a variety of terrains, ranging from urban areas to deserts. It is the most frequently crossed border in the world, with approximately 350 million documented crossings annually. Illegal crossing of the border to enter the United States has caused the Mexico–United States border crisis. It is one of two international borders that the United States has, the oth > **[Canada–United States border](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States-Canada_border)** > > There are two international borders between Canada and the United States: Canada's border with the northern tier of the contiguous United States to its south (6,416 kilometers or 3,987 miles), and with the U.S. state of Alaska to its northwest (2,475 kilometers or 1,538 miles). It is the longest international border in the world by total length, and the section between Canada and the contiguous United States is the second-longest continuous international border in the world after the Kazakh The... And add me to the “anti-illegal immigration != racist” camp. ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2006, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/denver-suburb-wants-to-make-it-a-crime-to-hire-a-day-laborer-wtf/370628/59 "2006-08-29T22:53:08Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Methinks you did the math wrong. I don’t know what the length of the Mexican border is, but I’ll bet you $100 it’s \> 350 miles. [/QUOTE] The border is [1,951 miles long](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S.-Mexico_border), to be precise. We don’t have a problem with Canadian immigration since Canada has basically the same standard of living as the U.S., plus socialized medicine and Rush. Now, it’s true that most of the foreign terrorists who attacked this country came through Canada, not Mexico…but this isn’t about terrorism anyway. It’s about that guy picking strawberries in 120-degree heat, or moving my refrigerator when it needs to be moved, and these people _obviously_ pose a greater threat to our security!!! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2006, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/denver-suburb-wants-to-make-it-a-crime-to-hire-a-day-laborer-wtf/370628/60 "2006-08-29T23:12:48Z")
[QUOTE=KGS] We don’t have a problem with Canadian immigration since Canada has basically the same standard of living as the U.S., plus socialized medicine and Rush. Now, it’s true that most of the foreign terrorists who attacked this country came through Canada, not Mexico…but this isn’t about terrorism anyway. It’s about that guy picking strawberries in 120-degree heat, or moving my refrigerator when it needs to be moved, and these people _obviously_ pose a greater threat to our security!!! :rolleyes: [/QUOTE] Cite that most of the 9/11 terrorists came from Canada, and (more importantly wrt a fence) cite that they snuck across the border on foot? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/denver-suburb-wants-to-make-it-a-crime-to-hire-a-day-laborer-wtf/370628.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/denver-suburb-wants-to-make-it-a-crime-to-hire-a-day-laborer-wtf/370628.md?page=4)