# Denver Suburb wants to make it a crime to hire a day laborer. WTF? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 29, 2006, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/denver-suburb-wants-to-make-it-a-crime-to-hire-a-day-laborer-wtf/370628 "2006-08-29T04:41:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2006, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/denver-suburb-wants-to-make-it-a-crime-to-hire-a-day-laborer-wtf/370628/61 "2006-08-29T23:15:24Z")
BTW, we have at least 2 distinct problems and they needn’t have the same solutions: 1. Illegal imnigrants sneaking across the border, mainly to the south. 2. Terrorists trying to get into the US to cause havoc. Pretending that anything which doesn’t support #2 is racist just doesn’t hold water. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2006, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/denver-suburb-wants-to-make-it-a-crime-to-hire-a-day-laborer-wtf/370628/62 "2006-08-29T23:20:35Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] How is it bigoted to want to enforce the law against illegal immigration? My dad was born in El Salvador. He had a dream - to come to the United States, and leave behind a country where he had almost zero chance of economic prosperity and social mobility. And he did it. [/QUOTE] Let’s say, for whatever reason, he couldn’t enter here legally (like Congress put in an “El Salvador Exclusion Act” like they did with China back in the day)… yet he broke the law and lived out The American Dream anyway. Do you think your views on immigration would be different? ---
**Author:** ![JohnBckWLD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d6d6ee/32.png) [@JohnBckWLD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnBckWLD)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2006, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/denver-suburb-wants-to-make-it-a-crime-to-hire-a-day-laborer-wtf/370628/63 "2006-08-29T23:22:48Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > …If you add costs and penalties to the cheap labor market it might make it cost effective to hire legal labor. There is someone out there who will build T\_Square’s wall and clean his house, cut his grass and clean his pool, legally, but it is more expensive. It’s often because those businesses pay their taxes and pay their employees a living wage. [QUOTE=DrDeth] Of course, there is another issue here- almost no one pays Employment taxes (etc) on day laborers, so there’s a tax evasion issue too. [/QUOTE] It’s entirely a tax evasion issue. Retaining wall installation runs at about $25[/] in this area. The price of labor to install a 3’ tall, 145 linear foot wall exceeds the I.R.S’s annual gift tax exemption. Don’t equate paying day laborers off the books / under the table with the few bucks you toss to your babysitter or the kid down the block who mows your lawn. If you’re so gung-ho on cash for service w/o tax liability; be consistent and pit gift taxes - and the entire income tax based system we currently have. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2006, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/denver-suburb-wants-to-make-it-a-crime-to-hire-a-day-laborer-wtf/370628/64 "2006-08-30T00:03:16Z")
My question to folks who believe the same as **if6was9** is this: if illegal immigration is no big deal, why have the laws at all? Why not just let anyone in at any time from anywhere? Aren’t you tacitly advocating non-enforcement of current laws? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2006, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/denver-suburb-wants-to-make-it-a-crime-to-hire-a-day-laborer-wtf/370628/65 "2006-08-30T00:08:55Z")
[QUOTE=Blalron] Let’s say, for whatever reason, he couldn’t enter here legally (like Congress put in an “El Salvador Exclusion Act” like they did with China back in the day)… yet he broke the law and lived out The American Dream anyway. Do you think your views on immigration would be different? [/QUOTE] It’s impossible to say. My views on many aspects of life were undoubtedly shaped by the vision of my father as an upright and law-abiding citizen, someone with a great respect for the rule of law and the principles of this country. It wasn’t his words but his example that was persuasive in this regard. I doubt my father could have been the same man otherwise – that it, it’s impossible for me to picture him as the same guy, with the single difference that he chose to break the law in order to live out The American Dream anyway. Any statement he made about respect for the law, about the necessity for obeying rules, about the value of America’s system, would have been hollow, and he would have known it just as well as we would. So in essence you’re asking me, “How would you be if your father had been someone else?” And I have no way of knowing. Presumably, I’d be different. Maybe I’d be a liberal atheist. Maybe I’d be much the same. I can’t even begin to speculate. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2006, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/denver-suburb-wants-to-make-it-a-crime-to-hire-a-day-laborer-wtf/370628/66 "2006-08-30T05:07:47Z")
[QUOTE=KGS] Now, it’s true that most of the foreign terrorists who attacked this country came through Canada, not Mexico [/QUOTE] Barring that one clown that was arrested by a border guard in Washington, which foreign terrorists are you referring to? I invite you to name names or withdraw the statement. ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2006, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/denver-suburb-wants-to-make-it-a-crime-to-hire-a-day-laborer-wtf/370628/67 "2006-08-30T08:20:41Z")
[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers] Barring that one clown that was arrested by a border guard in Washington, which foreign terrorists are you referring to? I invite you to name names or withdraw the statement. [/QUOTE] All right, smarty pants. I’m talking about the 9/11 terrorists. And I thought it was “common knowledge” that they immigrated through Canada, but apparently you think I’m wrong. So why don’t YOU perform your SDMB duty and fight my ignorance by citing where they DID come from? Sorry if I seem lazy, but I promise, if given the proper facts I will recant. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2006, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/denver-suburb-wants-to-make-it-a-crime-to-hire-a-day-laborer-wtf/370628/68 "2006-08-30T10:24:30Z")
[QUOTE=KGS] So why don’t YOU perform your SDMB duty and fight my ignorance by citing where they DID come from? Sorry if I seem lazy, but I promise, if given the proper facts I will recant. [/QUOTE] Actually, most of them came from Saudi Arabia… But most of them ALSO arrived here legally, on student visas. The illegal came in when they overstayed those visa (and in one case, immigration granted a visa extension _after_ 9/11… yes, the system does have problems). This is why people arriving here now on students visas are tracked more closely and when they go missing someone goes after them. ---
**Author:** ![Bookkeeper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bookkeeper/32/281_2.png) [@Bookkeeper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bookkeeper)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2006, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/denver-suburb-wants-to-make-it-a-crime-to-hire-a-day-laborer-wtf/370628/69 "2006-08-30T14:17:10Z")
[QUOTE=KGS] All right, smarty pants. I’m talking about the 9/11 terrorists. And I thought it was “common knowledge” that they immigrated through Canada, but apparently you think I’m wrong. So why don’t YOU perform your SDMB duty and fight my ignorance by citing where they DID come from? Sorry if I seem lazy, but I promise, if given the proper facts I will recant. [/QUOTE] And once again, “common knowledge” is [wrong](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A38816-2005Apr8.html) . All the 9/11 terrorists legally entered the US from overseas, and none came via Canada. (Even if they had, why would _Canada_ be at fault for the failure of US Customs/Immigration in letting them enter the US? And why no similar public castigation for the countries they _did_ come from?) ---
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2006, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/denver-suburb-wants-to-make-it-a-crime-to-hire-a-day-laborer-wtf/370628/70 "2006-08-30T15:13:09Z")
[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers] You know who was a day labourer? HITLER! Seriously, as a young man in Vienna in 1910, he couldn’t get into an art academy and had a few lean years. I just throw this in for laughs. [/QUOTE] Wow, there should be some kind of award for **Least Relevant Godwinization of a Thread** [sup]TM[/sup] 😃 ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2006, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/denver-suburb-wants-to-make-it-a-crime-to-hire-a-day-laborer-wtf/370628/71 "2006-08-30T15:37:24Z")
[QUOTE=KGS] All right, smarty pants. I’m talking about the 9/11 terrorists. And I thought it was “common knowledge” that they immigrated through Canada, but apparently you think I’m wrong. So why don’t YOU perform your SDMB duty and fight my ignorance by citing where they DID come from? Sorry if I seem lazy, but I promise, if given the proper facts I will recant. [/QUOTE] Actually, as you are the one who made the claim, it falls to you to show it to be correct when questioned. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2006, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/denver-suburb-wants-to-make-it-a-crime-to-hire-a-day-laborer-wtf/370628/72 "2006-08-30T15:42:59Z")
Well, at least KGS acknowledged that he _was_ ignorant. And knowing is half the battle. [sub]G.I. Joooooeee…[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2006, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/denver-suburb-wants-to-make-it-a-crime-to-hire-a-day-laborer-wtf/370628/73 "2006-08-30T16:50:41Z")
[QUOTE=magellan01] Actually, as you are the one who made the claim, it falls to you to show it to be correct when questioned. [/QUOTE] Not true…it falls to the person who makes the _extraordinary claim_ to provide evidence. I do not feel such a “common knowledge” statement is an extraordinary claim, and it makes no difference since somebody kindly provided a cite and put an end it. (How hard was that, really?) Apparently, tuning out Fox News wasn’t enough. Guess I have to tune out CNN, CSPAN, Discovery & History channels, and maybe HBO as well. That’s okay…the voices in my head are far more entertaining. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2006, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/denver-suburb-wants-to-make-it-a-crime-to-hire-a-day-laborer-wtf/370628/74 "2006-08-30T19:22:34Z")
[QUOTE=KGS] Not true…it falls to the person who makes the _extraordinary claim_ to provide evidence. I do not feel such a “common knowledge” statement is an extraordinary claim, and it makes no difference since somebody kindly provided a cite and put an end it. (How hard was that, really?) [/quote] No. It ALWAYS falls to the person making the claim to provide the evidence. The more extraordinary the claim, the more convincing and detailed the evidence needed. As this example shows, you cannot simply wave your hands and say, “Oh, it’s common knowledge!” It’s not a matter of how hard or how easy it was – you make the claim, you provide the evidence. That’s the way it has to work. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2006, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/denver-suburb-wants-to-make-it-a-crime-to-hire-a-day-laborer-wtf/370628/75 "2006-08-30T19:58:12Z")
[QUOTE=KGS] Not true…it falls to the person who makes the _extraordinary claim_ to provide evidence. I do not feel such a “common knowledge” statement is an extraordinary claim, and it makes no difference since somebody kindly provided a cite and put an end it. (How hard was that, really?) Apparently, tuning out Fox News wasn’t enough. Guess I have to tune out CNN, CSPAN, Discovery & History channels, and maybe HBO as well. That’s okay…the voices in my head are far more entertaining. 🆒 [/QUOTE] What Bricker said. If yo do not see the sense in that, any debate you are in is bound to be frustrating for both parties involved. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2006, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/denver-suburb-wants-to-make-it-a-crime-to-hire-a-day-laborer-wtf/370628/76 "2006-08-30T20:25:23Z")
[QUOTE=KGS] Not true…it falls to the person who makes the _extraordinary claim_ to provide evidence. [/QUOTE] Cite? Besides, even if they did come from Canada, you’re point was that people were being racist if they didn’t also want to build a fence on the northern border. So, you’d not only have to show that the terrorists came from Canada, but that they snuck across on foot. I’ve not seen any evidence that a significant number of Canadians who are here illegally came across on foot in remote areas. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/denver-suburb-wants-to-make-it-a-crime-to-hire-a-day-laborer-wtf/370628.md?page=3)