# Depleted Uranium Tipped Weapons
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/depleted-uranium-tipped-weapons/259058
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [August 9, 2004, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/depleted-uranium-tipped-weapons/259058 "2004-08-09T17:55:21Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 8
### Author:  [@Boy\_Scout11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boy_Scout11)
#### Post date: [August 16, 2004, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/depleted-uranium-tipped-weapons/259058/141 "2004-08-16T18:47:37Z")
> [@BMalion](#):
>
> You started it. (LOL)
>
> You made a claim.
>
> We asked for proof.
>
> you refused proof, made more claims.
>
> Someone else made a different claim.
>
> You asked for proof.
>
> You failed to spot the irony.
>
> Hilarity ensued.
>
> wash, rinse, repeat.
It came out in the wash, (if you had been comprehending,) everything I claimed in my origional piece, except for the DU turning into shards that cut, but it has been established in this thread, that it produces glass or ceramic spheres, that do enter the blood stream.
Furthermore, as this glass circulates in the bloodstream, even as small as it is, not one of you can prove that as small as some of the veins in the brain are, as well as thruout the body, that these spheres cannot lead to blockages within these veins. I also pointed out, that nothing else in the bloodstream is a solid, except for plaque and we all know plaque can kill and that it is the only other thing that is hard within the blood. The blood has nothing hard in it, for a reason.
I would further point out, that I believe at one of the times in debating these issues, that one of the problems pointed out by the medical community, was that some of these patients presented blotchy skin. The blotchy skin I believe, COULD be caused by these little spheres blocking the blood flow to the cappilaries, just beneath the skin.
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### Author:  [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)
#### Post date: [August 16, 2004, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/depleted-uranium-tipped-weapons/259058/142 "2004-08-16T20:00:07Z")
> [@Boy Scout11](#):
>
> It came out in the wash, (if you had been comprehending,) everything I claimed in my origional piece, except for the DU turning into shards that cut, but it has been established in this thread, that it produces glass or ceramic spheres, that do enter the blood stream.
No, it has not been established that the uranium oxide spheres into the blood. In fact, the evidence is that they get trapped in the lungs and stay there. Until you provide some further evidence that the uranium crosses over to the blood, the rest of your claim fall apart.
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### Author:  [@Boy\_Scout11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boy_Scout11)
#### Post date: [August 16, 2004, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/depleted-uranium-tipped-weapons/259058/143 "2004-08-16T20:06:10Z")
> [@1010011010](#):
>
> This has been one of the more entertaining threads I’ve read here.
>
> **Jurph** , you might want to try [Googling “ceramic Uranium”](http://www.google.com/search?&q=%22ceramic+Uranium%22) yourself. While it’s amusing to imagine **Boy Scount11** losing sleep over missles tipped with shards of Fiestaware, ceramic Uranium is a real substance that results from the vaporization and oxidation of the metal on impact.
>
> Anyway, I don’t know where the whole “cutting up our troops from the inside” things is coming from- ceramic uranium mainly comes in the micron-range spherical variety. No sharp pointy bits. Anyway, as a fine dust, it easily becomes airborne. It also has a significantly longer biological half-life than other forms of uranium. It’s nasty crap, **BS11** ’s other claims not withstanding.
>
> On a totally different note, powder alloys are also sometimes refered to as “ceramic”… but as far as I know, DU munitions are not powder alloy.
To further cite what you present here, you speak of a fine dust that becomes easily airborne, referred to as ceramic, instead of glass spheres, when it is superheated. This is still a metal dust, at least, that which is not consumed in heat, from a blast. It is POSSIBLE, that even as rods, upon impact, being as this stuff is somewhat harder than lead, but not much, disentigrates into a fine powder and as small as it is, it can float on the wind and enter the blood stream as a metallic powder and it will have cutting points, as it will not be blasted into glass spheres, so the soldiers COULD be getting both, as it is a very fine powder in one instance and glass spheres in another instance.
If anyone can, please cite where this is not possible.
Thanks,
Jim
---
### Author:  [@Boy\_Scout11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boy_Scout11)
#### Post date: [August 16, 2004, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/depleted-uranium-tipped-weapons/259058/144 "2004-08-16T20:10:56Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#):
>
> No, it has not been established that the uranium oxide spheres into the blood. In fact, the evidence is that they get trapped in the lungs and stay there. Until you provide some further evidence that the uranium crosses over to the blood, the rest of your claim fall apart.
If you read this entire thread, somewhere in here, it cites soldiers urinating this stuff out and that it was in the blood.
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### Author:  [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)
#### Post date: [August 16, 2004, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/depleted-uranium-tipped-weapons/259058/145 "2004-08-16T20:24:32Z")
> [@Boy Scout11](#):
>
> … but it has been established in this thread, …
Not by _you_ however, your posts have established little of anything.
> [@](#):
>
> If anyone can, please cite where this is not possible.
Earth?
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### Author:  [@Joe\_Random](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Random)
#### Post date: [August 16, 2004, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/depleted-uranium-tipped-weapons/259058/146 "2004-08-16T20:28:54Z")
> [@Boy Scout11](#):
>
> If anyone can, please cite where this is not possible.
But, you see, that’s not how things work around here (nor in any community dedicated to intellectual discourse). Whoever is making the positive assertion that something is occurring is the one who has to provide the cite for _their_ position. Otherwise, you could easily end up with someone claiming, for instance, that Gulf War Syndrome is caused by a voodoo curse, and demanding that someone _else_ come up with a cite that shows that their “theory” is not possible. Surely you would object to someone doing that?
> [@](#):
>
> If you read this entire thread, somewhere in here, it cites soldiers urinating this stuff out and that it was in the blood.
I’ve looked through the thread and don’t see it. Would you mind either linking to the cite, or at least quoting its text?
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### Author:  [@Boy\_Scout11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boy_Scout11)
#### Post date: [August 16, 2004, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/depleted-uranium-tipped-weapons/259058/147 "2004-08-16T20:41:09Z")
> [@BMalion](#):
>
> Not by _you_ however, your posts have established little of anything.
>
> Ok, lets say you are correct, even though I have debated this subject quite alot before and have a very good memory as to what many others have said, there have been some members here that have cited fore and against my theories and that is what a true debate is all about. Some people want to know the whole truth, because our soldiers lives are at risk, but it seems as if you couldn’t care less by your words and assertions, while you seem not to read or comprehend all that has been presented on this thread.
>
> Earth?
You show no debate, just personal insults and quips.
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### Author:  [@Jurph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jurph)
#### Post date: [August 16, 2004, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/depleted-uranium-tipped-weapons/259058/148 "2004-08-16T20:53:16Z")
> [@Boy Scout11](#):
>
> If you read this entire thread, somewhere in here, it cites soldiers urinating this stuff out and that it was in the blood.
Really? So you’re saying that someone looked something up and [posted a link](http://www.miltoxproj.org/assesment.htm) to it? Do you remember who it was? Because that would be an amazingly useful way to conduct a debate!
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### Author:  [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)
#### Post date: [August 16, 2004, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/depleted-uranium-tipped-weapons/259058/149 "2004-08-16T20:54:11Z")
> [@Boy Scout11](#):
>
> If you read this entire thread, somewhere in here, it cites soldiers urinating this stuff out and that it was in the blood.
That’s not the way I read it. The relevant stuff is [here](http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/du.htm):
> [@](#):
>
> The published results of these medical evaluations indicate that the presence of retained DU fragments is the only scenario predictive of a high urine uranium level, and those with embedded DU fragments continue to have elevated urine uranium levels ten years after the incident. It is unlikely that an individual without embedded DU fragments would have an elevated urine uranium level, and consequently any uranium-related health effects.
Note the references to **embedded** fragments. The only way that uranium gets into the blood is if a chunk of it punctures the body and stays there. Take away the fragment and you take away the traces of uranium in the urine.
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### Author:  [@Jurph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jurph)
#### Post date: [August 16, 2004, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/depleted-uranium-tipped-weapons/259058/150 "2004-08-16T20:55:49Z")
> [@Boy Scout11](#):
>
> You show no debate, just personal insults and quips.
Mr. Kettle, paging Mr. Kettle. You have an urgent call from Mr. Pot.
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### Author:  [@Boy\_Scout11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boy_Scout11)
#### Post date: [August 16, 2004, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/depleted-uranium-tipped-weapons/259058/151 "2004-08-16T20:59:25Z")
> [@Joe Random](#):
>
> But, you see, that’s not how things work around here (nor in any community dedicated to intellectual discourse). Whoever is making the positive assertion that something is occurring is the one who has to provide the cite for _their_ position. Otherwise, you could easily end up with someone claiming, for instance, that Gulf War Syndrome is caused by a voodoo curse, and demanding that someone _else_ come up with a cite that shows that their “theory” is not possible. Surely you would object to someone doing that?
>
> I’ve looked through the thread and don’t see it. Would you mind either linking to the cite, or at least quoting its text?
Ok, I will satisfy your inability to read and comprehend this time,–Snip–In contrast, the DU ceramic aerosol released in war entered directly into lymph and blood through the lung-blood barrier and circulated throughout the whole body. All internal contamination is excreted through either sweat or urine.
Beneath is the cite for du in the blood and as I said, if you had bothered to read and comprehend, you would have seen, instead, people like you waste other peoples time.
[http://www.iicph.org/docs/DU\_Human\_Rights\_Tribunal.htm](http://www.iicph.org/docs/DU_Human_Rights_Tribunal.htm)
Depleted Uranium as a Weapon of War
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### Author:  [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)
#### Post date: [August 16, 2004, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/depleted-uranium-tipped-weapons/259058/152 "2004-08-16T21:03:22Z")
> [@Boy Scout11](#):
>
> You show no debate, just personal insults and quips.
You have mis-quoted me in your previous post. You seem to have cut and pasted comments from me and another poster. The lack of understanding the quote box function can be a disadvantage in this forum but shows improvement on the citation skills.
I do not recall insulting you personally, I’d ask for a cite but that would be… pointless?
If I have offended you, please except my apologies, I only meant to attack the posts, not the poster.
I plead guilty on the quips.
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### Author:  [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)
#### Post date: [August 16, 2004, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/depleted-uranium-tipped-weapons/259058/153 "2004-08-16T21:08:44Z")
4 pages and finally a cite!
they grow up so fast.
_wipes tear from eye_
---
### Author:  [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)
#### Post date: [August 16, 2004, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/depleted-uranium-tipped-weapons/259058/154 "2004-08-16T21:21:16Z")
> [@Boy Scout11](#):
>
> Ok, I will satisfy your inability to read and comprehend this time,–Snip–In contrast, the DU ceramic aerosol released in war entered directly into lymph and blood through the lung-blood barrier and circulated throughout the whole body. All internal contamination is excreted through either sweat or urine.
> Beneath is the cite for du in the blood and as I said, if you had bothered to read and comprehend, you would have seen, instead, people like you waste other peoples time.
> [http://www.iicph.org/docs/DU\_Human\_Rights\_Tribunal.htm](http://www.iicph.org/docs/DU_Human_Rights_Tribunal.htm)
> Depleted Uranium as a Weapon of War
Did you read the enirety of that article? Perhaps this bit “Much of the ceramic DU aerosol is in respirable sized particles -10 micrometer and less in diameter. It stays in the lungs for upwards of two years”. If your hypothesis that the particles had jagged edges which made tiny cuts in the body was true, the particles wouldn’t remain in the lungs for such an extensive time. You’ll notice that the article also puts an increased dosage of radiation, potentially causing cancer, as the risk factor. Not tissue damage, not lungs covered in scar tissue, nada.
Even with radiation, there is no conclusive data showing that low levels of radiation cause any significant increase in the rate of cancer.
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### Author:  [@Boy\_Scout11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boy_Scout11)
#### Post date: [August 16, 2004, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/depleted-uranium-tipped-weapons/259058/155 "2004-08-16T21:25:32Z")
> [@BMalion](#):
>
> 4 pages and finally a cite!
>
> they grow up so fast.
> _wipes tear from eye_
I did not post that cite, 1000100100, or something like that, cited that, not me. I simply offered theory and it happened to be correct in many ways. I first offered this same text on another site and argued these points, remembering much of what was offered there. Furthermore, there was one or two more here that offered things as they were interrested in our soldiers and not so much what I had to say and I think highly of those people, while I debate and admit to my own frailties. This is about soldiers and some innocent Iraqui’s, not us.
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### Author:  [@Boy\_Scout11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boy_Scout11)
#### Post date: [August 16, 2004, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/depleted-uranium-tipped-weapons/259058/156 "2004-08-16T21:32:17Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#):
>
> Did you read the enirety of that article? Perhaps this bit “Much of the ceramic DU aerosol is in respirable sized particles -10 micrometer and less in diameter. It stays in the lungs for upwards of two years”. If your hypothesis that the particles had jagged edges which made tiny cuts in the body was true, the particles wouldn’t remain in the lungs for such an extensive time. You’ll notice that the article also puts an increased dosage of radiation, potentially causing cancer, as the risk factor. Not tissue damage, not lungs covered in scar tissue, nada.
>
> Even with radiation, there is no conclusive data showing that low levels of radiation cause any significant increase in the rate of cancer.
What you speak of here, is about weapons that explode upon impact, with DU and not the penetrator rods that are not explosive. The type that are not explosive, must surely shed some of the du as metal dust and it also would be as dust that can enter the lungs in the metallic form, crossing the blood and lymph barriers and that dust being the second form, which can drift on the wind and be kicked up as troops walk thru it, will become airborne again and they will breathe it in.
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### Author:  [@Jurph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jurph)
#### Post date: [August 16, 2004, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/depleted-uranium-tipped-weapons/259058/157 "2004-08-16T21:50:03Z")
> [@Boy Scout11](#):
>
> What you speak of here, is about weapons that explode upon impact, with DU and not the penetrator rods that are not explosive.
I don’t expect that you’ve actually read any of the links. But if you had, you’d have noticed that the kinetic energy of DU penetrator rods combined with their pyrophoric properties means that _all_ DU projectiles that hit armor at a given speed will, to some extent, combust. Their outer layer starts a spontaneous reaction and burns away, leaving a cloud of uranium oxide or uranium dioxide.
> [@](#):
>
> The type that are not explosive, must surely shed some of the du as metal dust and it also would be as dust that can enter the lungs in the metallic form, crossing the blood and lymph barriers…
No! Come on, aren’t you paying attention? When uranium oxidizes, it becomes Uranium Oxide or Dioxide – the **ceramic** form. That’s the one that’s absorbed via inhalation, which stays in the bloodstream the longest. The metallic form – see my myriad links above – is excreted almost immediately. The combustion products are generally a condensate left over from the oxidation, and are characteristically spherical.
> [@](#):
>
> … and that dust being the second form, which can drift on the wind and be kicked up as troops walk thru it, will become airborne again and they will breathe it in.
I don’t know which dust (or “second form”) you’re talking about.
On the up side, your last post contained a cite. Congratulations! I think we may be approaching a rational debate here.
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### Author:  [@Boy\_Scout11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boy_Scout11)
#### Post date: [August 16, 2004, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/depleted-uranium-tipped-weapons/259058/158 "2004-08-16T21:55:47Z")
> [@Jurph](#):
>
> Really? So you’re saying that someone looked something up and [posted a link](http://www.miltoxproj.org/assesment.htm) to it? Do you remember who it was? Because that would be an amazingly useful way to conduct a debate!
You have but to read and comprehend, but since you show you do not possess that capability, just move 5 posts up from where you say the above, to find an answer.
---
### Author:  [@Boy\_Scout11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boy_Scout11)
#### Post date: [August 16, 2004, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/depleted-uranium-tipped-weapons/259058/159 "2004-08-16T22:00:11Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#):
>
> That’s not the way I read it. The relevant stuff is [here](http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/du.htm):Note the references to **embedded** fragments. The only way that uranium gets into the blood is if a chunk of it punctures the body and stays there. Take away the fragment and you take away the traces of uranium in the urine.
You prove beyond a shodow of a doubt, that you do not read and comprehend.
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### Author:  [@Boy\_Scout11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boy_Scout11)
#### Post date: [August 16, 2004, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/depleted-uranium-tipped-weapons/259058/160 "2004-08-16T22:04:43Z")
> [@Jurph](#):
>
> I don’t expect that you’ve actually read any of the links. But if you had, you’d have noticed that the kinetic energy of DU penetrator rods combined with their pyrophoric properties means that _all_ DU projectiles that hit armor at a given speed will, to some extent, combust. Their outer layer starts a spontaneous reaction and burns away, leaving a cloud of uranium oxide or uranium dioxide.
>
> No! Come on, aren’t you paying attention? When uranium oxidizes, it becomes Uranium Oxide or Dioxide – the **ceramic** form. That’s the one that’s absorbed via inhalation, which stays in the bloodstream the longest. The metallic form – see my myriad links above – is excreted almost immediately. The combustion products are generally a condensate left over from the oxidation, and are characteristically spherical.
No, you did not read and fully comprehend all that has been offered here, but that’s not surprising, as you have shown the propensity to twist and turn other peoples words and by the way, like many before you, I do notice that you try to make people answer things over and over again, wasting their time and energy. This is the last I answer you.
I don’t know which dust (or “second form”) you’re talking about.
On the up side, your last post contained a cite. Congratulations! I think we may be approaching a rational debate here.
[/QUOTE]
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