# Depleted Uranium Tipped Weapons
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/depleted-uranium-tipped-weapons/259058
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [August 9, 2004, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/depleted-uranium-tipped-weapons/259058 "2004-08-09T17:55:21Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 9
### Author:  [@1010011010](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/1010011010)
#### Post date: [August 17, 2004, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/depleted-uranium-tipped-weapons/259058/161 "2004-08-17T00:07:25Z")
> [@Boy Scout11](#):
>
> You might be correct, but you also offered no specific proof with this specific material. Have you tested it yourself? Many here claim they want proof and yet, proof seems to be, what most here conmsider someone elses words from some web site. Yes, that goes for you, because you do not have the specific proof, with this specific material.
I work at Knolls Atomic Power Laboratory - Kesselring Site Operation. I’m employed by the Navy as an Engineering Laboratory Technician… which involves a fair bit of health physics. I do not speak with the authority of KAPL-KSO, the Department of the Navy, the Department of Energy, or claim to be an expert on this subject.
I do know a bit about it, though.
> [@Boy Scout11](#):
>
> Many say depleated uranium is just that and can’t hurt you, while others claim that inside the body it can. Seems our government is satisfied with the arguing, instead of proof, for all to see.
Uranium is still a heavy metal and still radioactive, even if it doesn’t have much U-235 in it. If anyone is calling bullshit on you it’s on the “wee pointy metal bits” line you seem so stuck on.
> [@Boy Scout11](#):
>
> To further cite what you present here, you speak of a fine dust that becomes easily airborne, referred to as ceramic, instead of glass spheres, when it is superheated. This is still a metal dust, at least, that which is not consumed in heat, from a blast.
Ceramic and glass are not mutually exclusive terms. Metal dusts, BTW, will usually burn quite well. Uranium, as already mentioned, is pyrophoric when finely divided… which means that it burns spontaneously at normal temperatures.
> [@Boy Scout11](#):
>
> It is POSSIBLE, that even as rods, upon impact, being as this stuff is somewhat harder than lead, but not much, disentigrates into a fine powder and as small as it is, it can float on the wind and enter the blood stream as a metallic powder and it will have cutting points,
No, it is not possible for uranium as a fine metallic dust to exist as a left-over from a DU munition… Uranium dust will burn, producing uranium oxide. The uranium oxide, in the superheated environment of a shell impact, will form ~10micron ceramic uranium (which is not made of uranium metal, but from oxide) spheres.
> [@Boy Scout11](#):
>
> as it will not be blasted into glass spheres, so the soldiers COULD be getting both, as it is a very fine powder in one instance and glass spheres in another instance.
Except for the already noted problem that uranium metal powder is pyrophorric.
---
### Author:  [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)
#### Post date: [August 17, 2004, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/depleted-uranium-tipped-weapons/259058/162 "2004-08-17T01:20:54Z")
> [@Boy Scout11](#):
>
> You might be correct, but you also offered no specific proof with this specific material. Have you tested it yourself? Many here claim they want proof and yet, proof seems to be, what most here conmsider someone elses words from some web site.
Knowledge of chemistry or physics is hardly lacking on this board. If he was fundamentally wrong, he would have been called on it.
One of the neat things about chemistry is that you can generally predict the reactive behaviors of damn near anything. Classes of elements behave in consistent ways and bond in consistent ways. Formations of oxides are hardly an unknown concept. The heat and force of a DU penetrator impact if anything would make oxide formation more likely if you understand the factors that influence reaction rates.
---
### Author:  [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)
#### Post date: [August 17, 2004, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/depleted-uranium-tipped-weapons/259058/163 "2004-08-17T06:39:44Z")
Jesus. What a !@#$& mess this thread is.
I’m a vet of Gulf War I. I ate Army MRE’s (the greatest danger to our Armed Forces by far; the Potatoes Au’Rotten alone should merit a Bio Hazard sticker, IMO), got Anthrax Shots, took the Anti-Nerve Agent Pills, and sat in the turret of an M1-A1 Abrams for four months (not constantly, you know; that would just be wierd) next to a butt-load of [M829A1 APFSDS-T](http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m829a1.htm) rounds, and I can say with the utmost authority that [I’m fine!](http://www.premier.net/~cspedale/opus/images/bill2.jpg)
> [@](#):
>
> I bet santa isn’t coming to your house this year.
You bet yer ass he ain’t! I’m a Life Member of the N.R.A., and any red-suited freak tries skinnying down _my_ chimney in the dark A.M. is gonna get an ass-load of depleted uranium butt-seeking 00!
---
### Author:  [@ambushed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ambushed)
#### Post date: [August 17, 2004, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/depleted-uranium-tipped-weapons/259058/164 "2004-08-17T07:51:22Z")
> [@Boy Scout11](#):
>
> On another board, I have spoken with a person very knowledgeable on war and his screen name is warbird. When speaking with him, it was he that said that many of our soldiers were urinating out this substance and from another source, it was said that women having intercourse with soldiers in this condition, have experienced burning afterwords and children with birth defects unknown. If a soldier is urinating this stuff, he must surely have it everywhere, considering this stuff is inhaled into the lungs. After I spoke of it being as a ceramic like stuff, another person on that site cut and pasted almost the same thing from a web site, testing the stuff. I have also heard of it being called that very same thing by an ex soldier when I was in his home.
Experience has taught me that the very _ **LAST** _ thing a person who believes he’s suffering from a scientifically dubious “mystery” ailment wants is truth. The only thing they’ll believe is their personal self-delusion-confirming bullshit and crackpottery, especially if it comes from personal anecdotes.
You’ve found the mother-load, my friend.
---
### Author:  [@ambushed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ambushed)
#### Post date: [August 17, 2004, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/depleted-uranium-tipped-weapons/259058/165 "2004-08-17T08:24:49Z")
> [@Boy Scout11](#):
>
> Try DU tipped, explosive, Tomahawks and bunker buster bombs.
_I’ve_ tried 'em, and they’re delicious! Try 'em dipped in drawn butter – they’re to die for!
---
### Author:  [@Boy\_Scout11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boy_Scout11)
#### Post date: [August 17, 2004, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/depleted-uranium-tipped-weapons/259058/166 "2004-08-17T10:14:51Z")
> [@1010011010](#):
>
> I work at Knolls Atomic Power Laboratory - Kesselring Site Operation. I’m employed by the Navy as an Engineering Laboratory Technician… which involves a fair bit of health physics. I do not speak with the authority of KAPL-KSO, the Department of the Navy, the Department of Energy, or claim to be an expert on this subject.
>
> I do know a bit about it, though.
>
> Uranium is still a heavy metal and still radioactive, even if it doesn’t have much U-235 in it. If anyone is calling bullshit on you it’s on the “wee pointy metal bits” line you seem so stuck on.
>
> Ceramic and glass are not mutually exclusive terms. Metal dusts, BTW, will usually burn quite well. Uranium, as already mentioned, is pyrophoric when finely divided… which means that it burns spontaneously at normal temperatures.
>
> No, it is not possible for uranium as a fine metallic dust to exist as a left-over from a DU munition… Uranium dust will burn, producing uranium oxide. The uranium oxide, in the superheated environment of a shell impact, will form ~10micron ceramic uranium (which is not made of uranium metal, but from oxide) spheres.
>
> Except for the already noted problem that uranium metal powder is pyrophorric.
Specifically, you said the above and it is with things like this, that make me flinch and question,–here is what you said above,–Metal dusts, BTW, will usually burn quite well. Did you notice the word “usually”? That pertains to my questioning specific materials and your lack of a cite. I will take what you say as the truth in this matter however.
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### Author:  [@Boy\_Scout11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boy_Scout11)
#### Post date: [August 17, 2004, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/depleted-uranium-tipped-weapons/259058/167 "2004-08-17T10:17:52Z")
> [@drachillix](#):
>
> Knowledge of chemistry or physics is hardly lacking on this board. If he was fundamentally wrong, he would have been called on it.
>
> One of the neat things about chemistry is that you can generally predict the reactive behaviors of damn near anything. Classes of elements behave in consistent ways and bond in consistent ways. Formations of oxides are hardly an unknown concept. The heat and force of a DU penetrator impact if anything would make oxide formation more likely if you understand the factors that influence reaction rates.
You too huh? Usually, generally? Those are the words for could be, might be, depending.
---
### Author:  [@ambushed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ambushed)
#### Post date: [August 17, 2004, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/depleted-uranium-tipped-weapons/259058/168 "2004-08-17T11:10:29Z")
Depleted uranium debate on another forum with many cites that took place in 2002: [Dirty Bombs](http://www.2thinkforums.org/anyboard/archive/15669.html)
---
### Author:  [@Boy\_Scout11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boy_Scout11)
#### Post date: [August 17, 2004, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/depleted-uranium-tipped-weapons/259058/169 "2004-08-17T11:17:52Z")
> [@ambushed](#):
>
> Depleted uranium debate on another forum with many cites that took place in 2002: [Dirty Bombs](http://www.2thinkforums.org/anyboard/archive/15669.html)
If there is something specific that you have gotten from that thread, that you believe is important or different, please cite it. 🙂
Thanks,
---
### Author:  [@ambushed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ambushed)
#### Post date: [August 17, 2004, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/depleted-uranium-tipped-weapons/259058/170 "2004-08-17T11:33:04Z")
The scientific evidence, such as that supplied in [The Science of the Silver Bullet](http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=0003C801-90E4-1C75-9B81809EC588EF21&pageNumber=1&catID=4) in Scientific American and other reputable scientific sources tell us very reliably that depleted uranium, if it’s a measurable health hazard at all, is a very tiny one and is utterly dwarfed by common natural and man-made environmental risk sources. The most comprehensive report indicates that the potential toxicity involved – either chemical or radiologic – is **orders of magnitude** below any extant chemical or radiological safety guidelines.
Unless you inhale DU dust in **pound** quantities, it poses no real health risk.
Webelo11 has been frothing himself into a frenzy over something **far** less dangerous than breathing in Los Angeles or Denver.
---
### Author:  [@Boy\_Scout11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boy_Scout11)
#### Post date: [August 17, 2004, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/depleted-uranium-tipped-weapons/259058/171 "2004-08-17T11:45:06Z")
> [@ambushed](#):
>
> The scientific evidence, such as that supplied in [The Science of the Silver Bullet](http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=0003C801-90E4-1C75-9B81809EC588EF21&pageNumber=1&catID=4) in Scientific American and other reputable scientific sources tell us very reliably that depleted uranium, if it’s a measurable health hazard at all, is a very tiny one and is utterly dwarfed by common natural and man-made environmental risk sources. The most comprehensive report indicates that the potential toxicity involved – either chemical or radiologic – is **orders of magnitude** below any extant chemical or radiological safety guidelines.
>
> Unless you inhale DU dust in **pound** quantities, it poses no real health risk.
>
> Webelo11 has been frothing himself into a frenzy over something **far** less dangerous than breathing in Los Angeles or Denver.
And because this one site says so, your going to believe it, even after so much else has been shown on this thread? Oh well, that is your choice, but let me see now, has our government ever cheated its people, or has it ever used propaganda thru other people or has it ever outright lied or has it ever taught others and big business to lie cheat and subsequently steal from hard working people?
Has it ever misdirected people and what about the spherical glass that is small enough to enter the soldiers blood and lymphatic systems and do those little glass spheres clog up the works as they are hard and nothing in the blood or lymphatic systems have anything hard in them?
Believe what you want, but I think the American public is becoming much more aware.
---
### Author:  [@ambushed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ambushed)
#### Post date: [August 17, 2004, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/depleted-uranium-tipped-weapons/259058/172 "2004-08-17T12:16:06Z")
> [@1010011010](#):
>
> Anyway, I don’t know where the whole “cutting up our troops from the inside” things is coming from- ceramic uranium mainly comes in the micron-range spherical variety. No sharp pointy bits. Anyway, as a fine dust, it easily becomes airborne. It also has a significantly longer biological half-life than other forms of uranium. It’s nasty crap, **BS11** ’s other claims not withstanding.
Cite, please? Why on Earth should uranium that has been stripped of as much radioactive material as possible have a “longer biological half-life than other forms of uranium”? Sounds like conspiracy-oriented crackpottery to me…
The stuff’s very close to totally benign. Working in your garden exposes you to _hundreds_ of times more naturally occurring uranium dust and other radioactives in just the top 1 mm of soil than even the highest dosage of DU exposure in warfare will _possibly_ expose you!
---
### Author:  [@ambushed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ambushed)
#### Post date: [August 17, 2004, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/depleted-uranium-tipped-weapons/259058/173 "2004-08-17T12:42:57Z")
> [@Boy Scout11](#):
>
> And because this one site says so, your going to believe it, even after so much else has been shown on this thread?
You mean after so much ignorant, anti-scientific bullshit from you and so much scientific proof from everyone else that demonstrates conclusively that you don’t have even the tiniest clue about what you’re blithering so inanely about, don’t you? I’ll stick with the facts. And since you’re asking me to choose between _ **Scientific American** _ and **your** misguided, ignorant ravings, I choose _ **Scientific American!** _
> [@Boy Scout11](#):
>
> Oh well, that is your choice, but let me see now, has our government ever cheated its people, or has it ever used propaganda thru other people or has it ever outright lied or has it ever taught others and big business to lie cheat and subsequently steal from hard working people?
Let me see if I’ve got this right: You’re claiming that since one or more _people_ in the U.S. Government have misled us at certain times in the past (note that it’s impossible for “the government” to mislead anyone), _ **every** _ syllable – _ **every** _ single jot and tittle issued by _ **every** _ person who was in _ **any** _ way employed by _ **any** _ government agency – is a lie.
Got it.
Furthermore, you’re saying that since the esteemed and highly reputable scientific publication _Scientific American_ has the word “American” in it, it must therefore be a product of “the government”, and must therefore be nothing but lies.
Yep; you’re perfectly sane. And what an intelligent and effective rebuttal you’ve offered!
> [@Boy Scout11](#):
>
> Has it ever misdirected people and what about the spherical glass that is small enough to enter the soldiers blood and lymphatic systems and do those little glass spheres clog up the works as they are hard and nothing in the blood or lymphatic systems have anything hard in them?
That and the other potential health effects have been scientifically evaluated by many countries and many scientific institutions and that and the others have been found to be either very minor or thoroughly ridiculous. Inhaling DU is safer than breathing smog!
> [@Boy Scout11](#):
>
> Believe what you want, but I think the American public is becoming much more aware.
Yes, just like they’re becoming ever more aware that aliens won WWII and that pigs live in trees and housepets’ tiny little minds can be read by psychics. The best rule of thumb tells us from experience that the extent to which the American public believes something is always inversely proportional to the truth.
You’re as right as the American public is that Saddam was behind 9/11, Mr. Webelo. Your claims and arguments are delusional, I’m afraid. Nothing personal.
---
### Author:  [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)
#### Post date: [August 17, 2004, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/depleted-uranium-tipped-weapons/259058/174 "2004-08-17T12:58:11Z")
> [@Boy Scout11](#):
>
> You too huh? Usually, generally? Those are the words for could be, might be, depending.
No they are the words for “there are occasional exeptions”
You are clinging to the minutest fraction of a chance like you are defending a stay of execution. As about 5 other posters have pointed out, this stuff is about as dangerous as dishwashing liquid. Of course if many people got hit by a bottle of dishwashing liquid fired from the main gun of an M1 Abrams, we would be discussing the hazards of inhaled dishwashing liquid aerosolized by the impact.
I said generally in reference to chemistry as a whole, not to your topic. I didn’t use the word “usually” in the post you quoted
Back in my EMT days we called your apparent manner of thinking “zebra chasing”.
When you see a black horse, do you think horse, or that someone has cleverly concealed a stolen zebra by painting over the white areas.
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### Author:  [@ambushed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ambushed)
#### Post date: [August 17, 2004, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/depleted-uranium-tipped-weapons/259058/175 "2004-08-17T12:59:18Z")
> [@Jurph](#):
>
> For example, you could try posting a [link](http://www.cadu.org.uk/intro.htm), however biased, that supports your position. If you were really interested, you could [link to something a little more unbiased](http://www.iicph.org/docs/DU_Human_Rights_Tribunal.htm). You could even point to [multiple](http://www.miltoxproj.org/assesment.htm) sources.
For what it’s worth, Jurph, your cites have long been discredited.
See, for just one example of such discrediting: [The Science of the Silver Bullet](http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=0003C801-90E4-1C75-9B81809EC588EF21&pageNumber=1&catID=4), in _Scientific American_. I can supply additional discrediting citations if you ask.
---
### Author:  [@ambushed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ambushed)
#### Post date: [August 17, 2004, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/depleted-uranium-tipped-weapons/259058/176 "2004-08-17T13:22:16Z")
> [@monsterbob](#):
>
> Depleted uranium weapons are hazardous to the environment as the cite provided by Jurph shows.
>
> [http://www.miltoxproj.org/assesment.htm](http://www.miltoxproj.org/assesment.htm)
>
> Although the mechanisms are more mundane than the boyscout envisions, Uranium through its decay to lead and polonium through repeated alpha decay is a leading cause of death (non smoking related lung cancer) in the US. Barely cracks the top 10, but a significant hazard to health without the added insult of deliberately causing it to form a long lived aerosol.
>
> envisioning an additional 3000 to 21000 cancer deaths to our own troops is sufficient to ban the nasty devices.
Your claims are laughable, uninformed nonsense, bob. Your cite is by a nun with a political agenda who lacked nearly all of the scientific data and has long since been utterly discredited by genuine scientific research. That site, along with all the others that try to make the same points, remains active and frequently cited only because her bullshit is appealing to conspiracy nutjobs. It’s called confirmation bias – look into it.
Since you have no clue as to what you’re saying, let me elaborate a bit about Alpha radiation: It’s harmful radius of action is measured in **microns!** It is so pathetically weak that it can be completely and totally stopped and eliminated **by a single-sheet thickness of paper!**
In order to be harmful to health, the DU dust and its attendant alpha emissions must lodge itself almost **impossibly** within bone marrow. It’s theoretically possible, but you’d expect it to happen perhaps about one time in billions of exposures.
Furthermore, the 60 or so most highly DU-exposed U.S. soldiers have been almost monomaniacally examined for health problems for more than a decade, and nothing – repeat, **NOTHING** – has so far been found by _any_ doctors or other medical experts. Your claim of “3000 to 21000 cancer deaths” is a truly absurd and utterly bogus pile of anti-scientific excrement.
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### Author:  [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)
#### Post date: [August 17, 2004, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/depleted-uranium-tipped-weapons/259058/177 "2004-08-17T13:33:59Z")
> [@ExTank](#):
>
> You bet yer ass he ain’t! I’m a Life Member of the N.R.A., and any red-suited freak tries skinnying down _my_ chimney in the dark A.M. is gonna get an ass-load of depleted uranium butt-seeking 00!
You are _so_ on the naughty list.
---
### Author:  [@ambushed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ambushed)
#### Post date: [August 17, 2004, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/depleted-uranium-tipped-weapons/259058/178 "2004-08-17T13:38:39Z")
> [@Boy Scout11](#):
>
> Did you see anything new, learned from this thread? I’m mostly computer illiterate and IF I chose, I could research all I speak about, but much that I offer in medicine and other subjects, has not been addressed, that I know of. Since any decent board has people that are good at researching, I would think their value to any board is a good thing, if used in the best manner, for everyones sake…
>
> For instance, in metallurgy, we have gone from the blacksmith, that learned to go from just heating the metal and pounding it into shape, to the next step, that was heating, folding and pounding the metal down many times, to concentrate the molecules as close as possible, which made the metal much harder.
>
> Thinking along these lines and todays technology, I considered how superheating the metal in huge vats and poured could possibly be done better. In the senario I offered, I considered the further compaction of the heaviest elements in this superheated state and that was, when the molten metal reached its peak, a sort of hammer could pound on the side of these vats, depending and I believe that would make the heaviest molecules decend to the bottom of the vats, therefore, like folding and pounding the metal many times, the pounding of the sides of these vats would produce the same, depending on the need for harder metal. While I have not figured out how to retrieve the heaviest of metals from the bottom, it was a different form of thinking I had never heard before.
>
> In medicine and research, I know that they spin the blood and most other things, which seperates the components, buit I also offered the possibility of pinging down the blood, with say sound waves, which might reveal even more. Adding on to that, I mentioned that using different light spectrums may show differences in the blood that spinning and microscopic inspection may not show. Maybe, much of what I offer is already known, but as in dyslexia, none of the new thinking I brought to that arena had been proposed anywhere, as no one has brought to the boards any thinking by dyslexic associations about the things I spoke of. The good doctor even ran away when the really hard questions were asked of him, after he attacked me.
This isn’t an insult, it’s a genuine question. Did you graduate from high school? If yes, was it via home schooling or something?
Do you realize your speculations are at least 100 years obsolete?
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### Author:  [@InvidiousCourgette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InvidiousCourgette)
#### Post date: [August 17, 2004, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/depleted-uranium-tipped-weapons/259058/179 "2004-08-17T13:38:40Z")
> [@ambushed](#):
>
> For what it’s worth, Jurph, your cites have long been discredited.
>
> See, for just one example of such discrediting: [The Science of the Silver Bullet](http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=0003C801-90E4-1C75-9B81809EC588EF21&pageNumber=1&catID=4), in _Scientific American_. I can supply additional discrediting citations if you ask.
To be fair to **Jurph** , I think he was trying to illustrate to \*\*BoyScout11 \*\* how a defence of the original hypothesis might conceivably be constructed though the use of cites. I believe this was in the hope, whose flame flickered briefly, that this long and sprawling mess could be nurtured into a vibrant citizen of the GD community of threads. I do not believe that the cites reflect his own views. I may be confused, however. Sadly the flame died long ago. And the citizen? Heretical and renegade.
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### Author:  [@monsterbob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monsterbob)
#### Post date: [August 17, 2004, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/depleted-uranium-tipped-weapons/259058/180 "2004-08-17T13:43:58Z")
Quote:
“Inhaling DU is safer than breathing smog!”
Breathing smog can cause testicular cancer and KILL!
Therefore breathing DU is safer than dieing
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