# Depressed people are expendable. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 3, 2011, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/depressed-people-are-expendable/595079 "2011-09-03T17:57:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2011, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/depressed-people-are-expendable/595079/1 "2011-09-03T17:57:02Z")
Discuss. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2011, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/depressed-people-are-expendable/595079/2 "2011-09-03T18:02:18Z")
> [@Beware\_of\_Doug](#): > > Discuss. No-you first. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2011, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/depressed-people-are-expendable/595079/3 "2011-09-03T18:06:47Z")
People who belittle and disparage the mentally ill would better serve humanity by being ground up and used as fertiliser. Yep, that pretty much covers it. ---
**Author:** ![picker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/picker/32/13969_2.png) [@picker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/picker)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2011, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/depressed-people-are-expendable/595079/4 "2011-09-03T18:10:02Z")
People that advocate others being ground up and used as fertiliser should be ground up and used as fertiliser. Or rather, that’s how I’d feel if I wasn’t so depressed. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2011, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/depressed-people-are-expendable/595079/5 "2011-09-03T18:15:03Z")
> [@Beware\_of\_Doug](#): > > Discuss. Either come back and expound on this topic soon, or I’m locking this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2011, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/depressed-people-are-expendable/595079/6 "2011-09-03T18:16:45Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > No-you first. Read [this discussion](http://forums.intpcentral.com/showthread.php?31192-Depression-and-responsibility/), please. We now live in a world where personal responsibility is the beginning and the end. Depressed people - and I am one - have issues with this. Those issues are either serious and meaningful (if we are worth anything in ourselves) or just a giant smokescreen for cowardice and weakness (if we are only worth anything as self-sufficient actors). ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2011, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/depressed-people-are-expendable/595079/7 "2011-09-03T18:23:12Z")
Given that there is real misuse of the diagnosis of depression, and that it is finally impossible to be certain whether it is real in any given individual, maybe society would be better off if _all_ individuals claiming to be depressed were written off, and those capable of meeting 100% of the demands of the real world, without question or complaint, were the only ones entitled to full dignity as humans. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2011, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/depressed-people-are-expendable/595079/8 "2011-09-03T18:30:04Z")
> [@Beware\_of\_Doug](#): > > Given that there is real misuse of the diagnosis of depression, and that it is finally impossible to be certain whether it is real in any given individual, maybe society would be better off if _all_ individuals claiming to be depressed were written off, and those capable of meeting 100% of the demands of the real world, without question or complaint, were the only ones entitled to full dignity as humans. “Written off” how? ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2011, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/depressed-people-are-expendable/595079/9 "2011-09-03T18:30:31Z")
What about the physically disabled? Do you think that if they can’t meet 100% of the demands of the real world they should be denied “full dignity as humans” too? ---
**Author:** ![Hyperelastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Hyperelastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hyperelastic)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2011, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/depressed-people-are-expendable/595079/10 "2011-09-03T18:30:58Z")
I would assert that there is no objective difference between depression and apathy/sadness/weakness. What the average shoe salesman would regard as his normal state of mind, Steve Jobs might regard as a crushing depression. What Steve Jobs regards as his normal state of mind might appear to be egomaniacal, grandiose and manic to most people. It all comes down to how you expect to feel and whether how you actually feel is acceptable or unacceptable to you compared to your expectations. If you can “snap yourself out of it” just by trying really hard, then do that. If you can’t, then seek help or adjust your expectations. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2011, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/depressed-people-are-expendable/595079/11 "2011-09-03T18:34:57Z")
Of course you think that, you’re a depressive and your self-worth is shot to hell in a culture where that looks bad. But if we slaughtered the depressives, then fewer people would think like you. The neurotypicals don’t value your life as little as you do, & the manics don’t have enough numbers to keep the slaughter going in a democracy. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2011, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/depressed-people-are-expendable/595079/12 "2011-09-03T18:37:18Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > What about the physically disabled? Do you think that if they can’t meet 100% of the demands of the real world they should be denied “full dignity as humans” too? I don’t think we’ll do that. We need scapegoats in society. Physically disabled people make poor scapegoats, because their disability is concrete and measurable. Depressed people, OTOH, make excellent scapegoats, because they challenge our values as to what is real. Depression can’t be pointed to on a CAT scan or expressed in numbers. That is, finally, an affront to the real world. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2011, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/depressed-people-are-expendable/595079/13 "2011-09-03T18:38:09Z")
> [@Beware\_of\_Doug](#): > > Given that there is real misuse of the diagnosis of depression, and that it is finally impossible to be certain whether it is real in any given individual, maybe society would be better off if _all_ individuals claiming to be depressed were written off, and those capable of meeting 100% of the demands of the real world, without question or complaint, were the only ones entitled to full dignity as humans. You’d write off Abraham Lincoln? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2011, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/depressed-people-are-expendable/595079/14 "2011-09-03T18:38:38Z")
NM ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2011, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/depressed-people-are-expendable/595079/15 "2011-09-03T18:41:01Z")
> [@Beware\_of\_Doug](#): > > Depressed people, OTOH, make excellent scapegoats, because they challenge our values as to what is real. Depression can’t be pointed to on a CAT scan or expressed in numbers. That is, finally, an affront to the real world. So you think we should use depressed people as scapegoats? Maybe enact some sort of final solution? What a waste. You should put them to work before writing them off. Sound good? ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2011, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/depressed-people-are-expendable/595079/16 "2011-09-03T18:41:33Z")
More seriously, the ‘abnormality’ of depression is socially constructed and does not in itself create an exception to human rights theory. Now, as a radical conservationist, I see individual human life as expendable, but depressives don’t really use so many more resources than anyone else. And depressives, if they gain coping mechanisms, may in some cases be better able to deal with huge failure than those without depressive episodes in their pasts. This is useful in certain high-powered careers. Optimists are good at getting elected to high office, but bad at dealing with Really Bad Stuff, because, well, they’re optimists. They can’t tell it’s really bad until they get broken. (The last paragraph is apparently the theory of some guy I just read an interview with in _Maclean’s_ of all places. Don’t remember the issue, but one this summer.) ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2011, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/depressed-people-are-expendable/595079/17 "2011-09-03T18:46:27Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > You’d write off Abraham Lincoln? Yes. And Churchill. And a good percentage of the troubled thinkers, artists, and humanitarians of history. Life as properly lived is a grim march to nowhere, motivated by healthy delusions which benefit the greatest number. Most of what makes us human, however uplifting and affirming we find it, would not be possible if most of humanity were not marching in step, tuned into the delusions that are best. The moral contradictions alone inherent in that situation are immense. It might actually be a _more_ humane and gentle world for the rest of us if those who can’t take it were dispatched. Imagine if depression were made a crime against humanity. The rates of morbidity would plummet. Our internal resistance to our deeper feelings would become mighty. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2011, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/depressed-people-are-expendable/595079/18 "2011-09-03T18:47:46Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > More seriously, the ‘abnormality’ of depression is socially constructed and does not in itself create an exception to human rights theory. > > Now, as a radical conservationist, I see individual human life as expendable, but depressives don’t really use so many more resources than anyone else. > > And depressives, if they gain coping mechanisms, may in some cases be better able to deal with huge failure than those without depressive episodes in their pasts. This is useful in certain high-powered careers. Optimists are good at getting elected to high office, but bad at dealing with Really Bad Stuff, because, well, they’re optimists. They can’t tell it’s really bad until they get broken. > > (The last paragraph is apparently the theory of some guy I just read an interview with in _Maclean’s_ of all places. Don’t remember the issue, but one this summer.) **Foolsguinea** , the statement about individual human lives being expendable bothers me, but I don’t wish to hijack this discussion. I’ve opened a [thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=14215750#post14215750) in Great Debates, quoting your post above, if anyone wishes to discuss it there. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2011, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/depressed-people-are-expendable/595079/19 "2011-09-03T18:56:02Z")
Anything published in _Maclean’s_ is likely compromised. It is a Canadian publication. Canada, with its Scottish religious and philosophical heritage, used to be firm in the doctrines of Calvinism and the survival of the fittest. Today its moral core has been fatally decayed by social compassion and the socioethnic diversity that results. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2011, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/depressed-people-are-expendable/595079/20 "2011-09-03T19:00:41Z")
> [@Beware\_of\_Doug](#): > > \ > > Life as properly lived is a grim march to nowhere, motivated by healthy delusions which benefit the greatest number. Most of what makes us human, however uplifting and affirming we find it, would not be possible if most of humanity were not marching in step, tuned into the delusions that are best. > \ I am writing you a prescription for a hookerbot. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/depressed-people-are-expendable/595079.md?page=2)