# Deputy prime minister punches protestor: good show or bad egg? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 17, 2001, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deputy-prime-minister-punches-protestor-good-show-or-bad-egg/65728 "2001-05-17T15:22:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2001, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deputy-prime-minister-punches-protestor-good-show-or-bad-egg/65728/1 "2001-05-17T15:22:51Z")
As recounted in [this cnn.com story](http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/europe/05/17/uk.politics.02/index.html), Bristish Labour Party member and deputy prime minister John Prescott was hit on the side of the head with an egg thrown by a protestor at a campaign event. Prescott responded by punching the guy, who was apparently arrested later. The British press has responded in its usual calm and rational manner. The front pages are filled with 80-point headlines and full-color photos of the incident, while the editorial boards write hysterical editorials decrying the apparent end of democracy and civilization: > [@](#): > > The Sun tabloid wrote in its opinion section that it could not condone attacks on minister, but added: “We also cannot defend him hitting members of the public. This is a democracy not a yobbo state.” Meanwhile, down here in the state of Yobbo, I’m hoping they arrested the protestor at the hospital as he was getting his broken nose set. So what do you think about a politician who punches back? ---
**Author:** ![scratch1300](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dfb087/32.png) [@scratch1300](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scratch1300)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2001, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deputy-prime-minister-punches-protestor-good-show-or-bad-egg/65728/2 "2001-05-17T15:54:51Z")
He’s got _my_ vote. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2001, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deputy-prime-minister-punches-protestor-good-show-or-bad-egg/65728/3 "2001-05-17T16:08:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by minty green \* > \*\*So what do you think about a politician who punches back? \*\* Fine with me. If you’re attacked, you have every moral right to defend yourself. There was a similar case in Colorado where a (football?) player went after and hit some jerk who threw either a battery or a (full?) beer can at him. Again, I don’t see this as a problem. Fenris ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2001, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deputy-prime-minister-punches-protestor-good-show-or-bad-egg/65728/4 "2001-05-17T16:56:55Z")
[here’s how Clinton handled it.](http://abcnews.go.com/wire/Politics/reuters20010517_222.html) I’ll admit that I chucled when I first read the report. OTOH. perhaps playing a devils advocate here, 1. don’t we wish our leaders to behave a tad bit better than the general public? (Clinton haters can cringe here) 2. Isn’t there a **real** difference between defending oneself and revenge? And, on the latter point - a person hurls a fist at you, yes, I’d say you are justified in attempting to thwart that attack. Some one hurls an egg at you, and unless they’ve got the baker’s dozen pack right there, you’ve already sustained whatever injury they’re causing, isn’t the point then more of a revenge ‘you hit me so I’ll hit you’? and “mom, he hit me first”??? (see I see this like the time my kid got upset with a teacher at his school - the teacher had told the class he intended to do something that was against school policy. my son challenged him on that, demanded to be allowed to go see an administrator then **cussed** the teacher out - and because he added the cussing, our position with the administration of the school was diminished.) ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2001, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deputy-prime-minister-punches-protestor-good-show-or-bad-egg/65728/5 "2001-05-17T22:40:37Z")
I saw this on TV. Prescott had to cross a road and walk along a bit to get to the building he was visiting. There were dozens of protesters with placards. He didn’t seem to have an escort / bodyguard (though I’m sure he’s supposed to). As he passed between the demonstrators, one smacked him from the side with an egg (from about 2 feet away). Prescott turned and pushed hard with an outstretched arm. If he’d wanted to throw a punch, he would have used his other arm. The demonstrator pushed back, and Prescott fell back against a low wall. Police then arrested the demonstrator. My conclusions: - Prescott should have been better briefed, and protected. - the election is pretty boring, since the two main parties have similar policies (gee, they’re both tough on crime!) - the Government have a massive lead in the polls, and we don’t have proportional representation, so the third party (with a respectable 15% of the vote) don’t get much publicity - Prescott is not very clever, but at least he understands the Kyoto negotiations (unlike a certain President :rolleyes: ) ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2001, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deputy-prime-minister-punches-protestor-good-show-or-bad-egg/65728/6 "2001-05-18T05:17:12Z")
Well, at least he waited for the protestor to attack him personally, instead of just choking the guy for yelling at him, like a certain Canadian prime minister. And at least he punched the guy out, rather than teargassing him and everybody else within three kilometers, like a certain Canadian prime minister. Hmm. ---
**Author:** ![Andy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/aeb1de/32.png) [@Andy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2001, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deputy-prime-minister-punches-protestor-good-show-or-bad-egg/65728/7 "2001-05-18T10:21:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fenris \* > Fine with me. If you’re attacked, you have every moral right to defend yourself. Just a thought. If you consider this was reasonable use of force in the circumstances, presumably it would have made no difference at all _who_ was punched. I mean what if it were someone protesting about their rights as a minority, such as, oh, I don’t know, a woman, a wheelchair bound person, someone from an ethnic minority…you can see where I’m going here, but as I said, just a thought. My take; this was thuggery, if I’d retaliated in a similar manner to someone hurling an egg at me, I’d expect to end up charged with assault at the very least. Aside: rather convenient that the egg-thrower was arrested and released on police bail until mid-June…after the elction of course ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2001, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deputy-prime-minister-punches-protestor-good-show-or-bad-egg/65728/8 "2001-05-18T10:37:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Andy \* > **Just a thought. If you consider this was reasonable use of force in the circumstances, presumably it would have made no difference at all _who_ was punched. I mean what if it were someone protesting about their rights as a minority, such as, oh, I don’t know, a woman, a wheelchair bound person, someone from an ethnic minority…** You ask if it was “reasonable use of force in the circumstance”, then you change the circumstances. Do you think that, if he’d turned to face someone in a wheelchair, he would have hit them? I doubt it. \*\* > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fenris \* > If you’re attacked, you have every moral right to defend yourself. \*\*I agree. People who resort to stunts like throwing eggs at politicians are idiots. If someone did it to me, I’d swing at them. It’s nice to see a politician I can identify with? ---
**Author:** ![Andy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/aeb1de/32.png) [@Andy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2001, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deputy-prime-minister-punches-protestor-good-show-or-bad-egg/65728/9 "2001-05-18T10:53:39Z")
So the identity (or their circumstances) of the person who threw the egg determines whether or not it’s reasonable to react in the way he did? What if we change things just a little, make it a small man, or a young man, let’s say 20, 19, 16, 14 years old. There’s a set of circumstances where it’s OK to lash out and others where it’s not? What, then, are the rules? I think it’s far better and simpler to have a simple set of rules: don’t act like a thug; don’t thump people. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2001, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deputy-prime-minister-punches-protestor-good-show-or-bad-egg/65728/10 "2001-05-18T10:59:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Andy \* > Just a thought. If you consider this was reasonable use of force in the circumstances, presumably it would have made no difference at all _who_ was punched. I mean what if it were someone protesting about their rights as a minority, such as, oh, I don’t know, a woman, a wheelchair bound person, someone from an ethnic minority…you can see where I’m going here, but as I said, just a thought. I don’t like violence at all. I particularly despise men who fight women or wheelchair bound people, because it’s unfair. I don’t see why ethnic minorities come into it. Are you suggesting it’s OK to hit white men, but not black ones? (And while I’m stirring: how do you tell when a politician is lying? when their lips move!) ---
**Author:** ![gadgetgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c5a1d2/32.png) [@gadgetgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gadgetgirl)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2001, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deputy-prime-minister-punches-protestor-good-show-or-bad-egg/65728/11 "2001-05-18T11:45:09Z")
Ok, did you see the guy’s face when the Deputy Prime Minister slugged him? It went from this “oh look at me, I’m taking the moral high ground and making a statement” to “oh shit, this guy just broke my nose” in a 2.5 seconds. It was beautiful. I’m sorry, if someone threw an object at my head, I’d go to a bit of effort to defend myself. How did he know at the time what was being thrown at him? People are getting all “oh, the DPM is being so undiplomatic” but how diplomatic is throwing an egg at someone? What is this 7th grade? Isn’t that what you do in 7th grade, egg someone’s house? It’s all just silly. Maybe its all just a puplicity stunt to get some attendtion, maybe the egg thrower is in on it too… ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2001, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deputy-prime-minister-punches-protestor-good-show-or-bad-egg/65728/12 "2001-05-18T11:58:57Z")
Mr. Prescott is my boss (well, okay, my boss’s boss’s boss), so I could be biased, but I have to say that out of the whole Cabinet he seems to be the only one who reacts to things like a normal human being rather than rushing off to a spin doctor first. This means that he occasionally (nay, often) puts his foot in it, but I kinda like him anyway. I can’t say that I approve of him punching the guy, but at least I understand it. It’s been a stressful week for UK politicians: Prescott gets egged, Tony Blair gets shouted at, Jack Straw gets a slow handclap from the police (deadly, that), William Hague gets a severe heckling… I almost feel that, in the interest of fairness, I should go throw a cream pie at Charles Kennedy. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2001, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deputy-prime-minister-punches-protestor-good-show-or-bad-egg/65728/13 "2001-05-18T13:12:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Andy \* > \*\*So the identity (or their circumstances) of the person who threw the egg determines whether or not it’s reasonable to react in the way he did? \*\* Yes, of course the circumstances of a situation dictate what the reasonable action is. You think there’s only one course of action for all circumstances. For example, it would certainly have been unreasonable for the SB officers who were guarding him (if there were any - where were they?) to have shot the man when he threw an egg. If he’d pulled a gun though, that is what they would have had to do. > [@](#): > > **What if we change things just a little, make it a small man, or a young man, let’s say 20, 19, 16, 14 years old. There’s a set of circumstances where it’s OK to lash out and others where it’s not? What, then, are the rules?** Yes, there are circumstances where something is acceptable, and others where its not. As for rules, you have the laws of the country you’re in, its social practices, and your own morals. Unfortunately the last two are seldom written down in an easy to consult format > [@](#): > > \*\*I think it’s far better and simpler to have a simple set of rules: don’t act like a thug; don’t thump people. \*\* So I take it you wouldn’t ever hit someone should they threaten or assault you or your family. If so, although I admire you for the courage it takes to go through life as a pacifist, I do not personally agree with your philosophy. I also do not agree with the idea that reacting to an attack makes you a thug. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2001, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deputy-prime-minister-punches-protestor-good-show-or-bad-egg/65728/14 "2001-05-18T13:17:51Z")
I just saw the tape of it this morning and the demonstrator threw it very hard at him from two feet away. I think Two Jags had a very human reaction, I probably would have done the same thing. In the end though the protestor did seem to get the better of things as he shoved Two Jags to the ground and didn’t seem faxed by the blow. Maybe the next PM should be a judo expert just in case. ---
**Author:** ![Balor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/45deac/32.png) [@Balor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balor)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2001, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deputy-prime-minister-punches-protestor-good-show-or-bad-egg/65728/15 "2001-05-18T13:19:57Z")
This is being discussed on the Irish Times poll page. [http://scripts.ireland.com/newspaper/breaking/regularvote.cfm](http://scripts.ireland.com/newspaper/breaking/regularvote.cfm) The best quote is this - "He should resign. Such a poor performance. It would be a different story if he knocked the guy out, used a headbutt or threw a boot in. There is no room in politics for cissies. Ymcscc, Australia " ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2001, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deputy-prime-minister-punches-protestor-good-show-or-bad-egg/65728/16 "2001-05-18T13:24:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by puddleglum \* > **In the end though the protestor did seem to get the better of things as he shoved Two Jags to the ground and didn’t seem faxed by the blow.** I had a good look at one of the videos. The two men started wrestling with each other after the opening jab, and then a policeman came running in to grab the protestor and knocked both men to the ground. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2001, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deputy-prime-minister-punches-protestor-good-show-or-bad-egg/65728/17 "2001-05-18T13:48:13Z")
It made for entertaining tv. It would’ve been weird if the guy had started crying or something. Isn’t he a former boxer, or something? On a different note, they showed an interview of Dan Rather by O’Reilly where Dan said “bullfeathers!” And they kept repeating it over and over. Til my son, who was sitting there, went, “Bullfeathers?” Matt: do you have a link to that so I could see it? ---
**Author:** ![Balor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/45deac/32.png) [@Balor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balor)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2001, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deputy-prime-minister-punches-protestor-good-show-or-bad-egg/65728/18 "2001-05-18T13:52:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Andy \* > **If you consider this was reasonable use of force in the circumstances, presumably it would have made no difference at all _who_ was punched. I mean what if it were someone protesting about their rights as a minority, such as, oh, I don’t know, a woman, a wheelchair bound person, someone from an ethnic minority…** Are you saying that we are not to treat these people as equals? People in wheelchairs are entitled to get into fights if they choose to do so. Indeed, my friend Mary’s left wheel drew blood and left a nasty bruise on my left shin the last time she attacked me. Does she have to be from an ethnic minority as well to lose her right to fight? ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2001, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deputy-prime-minister-punches-protestor-good-show-or-bad-egg/65728/19 "2001-05-18T14:02:25Z")
Here is a quote from a news story: > [@](#): > > In the ensuing brawl, Evans, now freed pending more inquiries, shoved the Deputy PM in the face and pushed him over. If anyone has not seen the videos there are slideshows in the first and third articles here: [http://www.thesun.co.uk](http://www.thesun.co.uk) ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2001, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deputy-prime-minister-punches-protestor-good-show-or-bad-egg/65728/20 "2001-05-18T15:07:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Andy \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Fenris \* > > Fine with me. If you’re attacked, you have every moral right to defend yourself. > > Just a thought. If you consider this was reasonable use of force in the circumstances, presumably it would have made no difference at all _who_ was punched. I mean what if it were someone protesting about their rights as a minority, such as, oh, I don’t know, a woman, a wheelchair bound person, someone from an ethnic minority…you can see where I’m going here, but as I said, just a thought.\*\* Yup, I’m cool with it. A wheelchair-bound person, a woman, a minority, throws a rock/egg/whatever at me, I have every moral right to pop them one. The wheelchair is not a shield. Same with an ethnic minority, etc. If it had been a peaceful protest where the egg-thrower had just insulted the deputy PM, there’d have been no excuse for retaliation with force. But that wasn’t the case. Someone attacted a government official, and frankly got off lightly. Fenris [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deputy-prime-minister-punches-protestor-good-show-or-bad-egg/65728.md?page=2)