# Der Trihs, a moment of your time, if you would. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 13, 2007, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-a-moment-of-your-time-if-you-would/392089 "2007-02-13T22:53:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Omegaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e480ec/32.png) [@Omegaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omegaman)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-a-moment-of-your-time-if-you-would/392089/121 "2007-02-14T19:30:35Z")
[QUOTE=Larry Borgia] **Der Trihs** has said he has Asperger’s. Most of his posts should be read in [that light](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asbergers#Social_differences). When he advocates killing U.S. servicemen, he is incapable of understanding how that might read to someone that has family there. That part of his brain just doesn’t function. [/QUOTE] I can only hope he wears a large sign around his neck in public. Some people don’t have the lack of control that the internet affords. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-a-moment-of-your-time-if-you-would/392089/122 "2007-02-14T19:34:02Z")
[QUOTE=El\_Kabong] Anyway, my point is, how precisely does **Oakminster** ’s presumed ability to best **Der Trihs** in a fistfight make his view the correct one? Either **DT** is right or he is wrong. Or, and I know how popular this opinion is going to be, he is wrong about many thin [/QUOTE] I don’t think anyone has asserted that the winner of that hypothetical fight would be right, only that there are real world consequences to speaking the way he speaks that he avoids by spewing his garbage here. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-a-moment-of-your-time-if-you-would/392089/123 "2007-02-14T19:35:43Z")
[QUOTE=Larry Borgia] **Der Trihs** has said he has Asperger’s. Most of his posts should be read in [that light](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asbergers#Social_differences). When he advocates killing U.S. servicemen, he is incapable of understanding how that might read to someone that has family there. That part of his brain just doesn’t function. [/QUOTE] He is certainly capable of imagining what it is like to live in Iraq; that is one of the pillars of his position. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-a-moment-of-your-time-if-you-would/392089/124 "2007-02-14T19:36:14Z")
[QUOTE=Larry Borgia] **Der Trihs** has said he has Asperger’s. Most of his posts should be read in [that light](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asbergers#Social_differences). When he advocates killing U.S. servicemen, he is incapable of understanding how that might read to someone that has family there. That part of his brain just doesn’t function. [/QUOTE] Ah, great. I knew there _had_ to be a way for him not to be responsible for his own vile stupidity, and that given enough time a Doper would find it. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-a-moment-of-your-time-if-you-would/392089/125 "2007-02-14T19:39:07Z")
[QUOTE=Vinyl Turnip] Ah, great. I knew there _had_ to be a way for him not to be responsible for his own vile stupidity, and that given enough time a Doper would find it. [/QUOTE] I’m not saying he’s not responsible for his beliefs, I’m just saying he’s not worth getting irate at. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-a-moment-of-your-time-if-you-would/392089/126 "2007-02-14T19:40:20Z")
Let’s say, hypothetically, there is an armed conflict somewhere that you have a strong opinion about. Let’s say you are a citizen of nation Z. Now say that one country, nation X, was invading nation Y and was lobbing naval artillery day and night at targets that resulted in many casualties–among both the irregular defenders of nation Y and among Y’s civilian population. You find this a morally reprehensible and illegal war as well as dangerously unstable for the region and the entire world. You believe that nation X is waging this war without justification. Since this is a shooting war, it is assumed that people on both sides will be killed unless either side backs down. Neither side will back down. Seeing that you believe it to be morally just that nation X’s invaders are repelled, are you therefore wishing for the deaths of the invaders from nation X? How can you _not_ be seen as wishing for their deaths? Should you wrap every comment you make in convoluted caveats wishing: “While I do want to see X repulsed, I bear no malice towards those brave young lads from X as individuals and I hope they all make it home to Mom but this is war and some will die”? Or perhaps: “I know this is a violent and deadly conflict but I sure home both sides will revert to throwing pies soon, and that that will be enough to drive the invaders out of nation Y, and no one else will be harmed.” This hypothetical conflict is a war. People will be killed. You feel that nation X is clearly in the wrong, but nation X won’t budge–they will win or die. You don’t want them to win, so does that mean you want them to die? Now what if you are a citizen of nation X? ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-a-moment-of-your-time-if-you-would/392089/127 "2007-02-14T19:43:05Z")
[QUOTE=I Love Me, Vol. I] You don’t want them to win, so does that mean you want them to die? [/QUOTE] Gee, I don’t know. Did you _say_ you want them to die? And do you have Aspergers so that apparently we shouldn’t assume you mean what you say? ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-a-moment-of-your-time-if-you-would/392089/128 "2007-02-14T19:45:59Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] I don’t think anyone has asserted that the winner of that hypothetical fight would be right, only that there are real world consequences to speaking the way he speaks that he avoids by spewing his garbage here. [/QUOTE] That’s exactly right…it has nothing to do with who can “win” a fist fight. I doubt very highly **Oakminster** was talking about wanting to beating the crap out of him, anyway. As I said, it’s just that a guy who says that kind of thing to an actual person standing in front of him takes the risk of getting popped in the nose for it. Something tells me **Der Trihs** doesn’t go around taking those kinds of risks in life. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-a-moment-of-your-time-if-you-would/392089/129 "2007-02-14T19:49:11Z")
[QUOTE=Larry Borgia] **Der Trihs** has said he has Asperger’s. Most of his posts should be read in [that light](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asbergers#Social_differences). When he advocates killing U.S. servicemen, he is incapable of understanding how that might read to someone that has family there. That part of his brain just doesn’t function. [/QUOTE] I do not think Asperger’s is enough to forgive his behavior. Either ignore it as it means little and you feel he is within his rights to spout his crap or allow yourself to get upset by it and answer him in kind. Lets not use a disorder to excuse it. Jim ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-a-moment-of-your-time-if-you-would/392089/130 "2007-02-14T19:52:40Z")
[Quote=Contrapuntal] I don’t think anyone has asserted that the winner of that hypothetical fight would be right, only that there are real world consequences to speaking the way he speaks that he avoids by spewing his garbage here. [/Quote] Well, those “real-world consequences” you refer are in fact illegal and in my opinion, are wholly unjustified and should be punished if they occur. He is in fact correct to want to avoid them, because they do not address the correctness or incorrectness of his arguments. Once again, no one in particular appears to buy his most extreme opinions, therefore there seems to be no great danger of his convincing people to come over to his views in any concrete way, and no response needed that cannot be accomplished in this thread. Why would it be therefore correct, in anyone’s view, to punish him physically for having these opinions? Sorry, I realize this is a highly emotional issue for many people; I’ve stated my objections to the tone of some of the posts in this thread as clearly as I can so I’ll just leave it at that. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-a-moment-of-your-time-if-you-would/392089/131 "2007-02-14T19:52:51Z")
[QUOTE=Larry Borgia] I’m not saying he’s not responsible for his beliefs, I’m just saying he’s not worth getting irate at. [/QUOTE] I agree with the conclusion, at least. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-a-moment-of-your-time-if-you-would/392089/132 "2007-02-14T20:40:21Z")
[QUOTE=Vinyl Turnip] Ah, great. I knew there _had_ to be a way for him not to be responsible for his own vile stupidity, and that given enough time a Doper would find it. [/QUOTE] I bet he’s not punctual, either. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-a-moment-of-your-time-if-you-would/392089/133 "2007-02-14T21:05:33Z")
If I understand correctly, someone with AS can still be taught what may be right or wrong. Many have tried to (at the very least) coach **der Trihs** on a more effective approach to his stance. Attempts to do so have been met with malice. He will stalwartly defend the most abhorrent of his ideals, and continue to use the same verbage and wording even when pointed out that it is highly inflammatory and causing distress to others. If he is claiming he posts the way he does because of AS, I could honestly not care less. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-a-moment-of-your-time-if-you-would/392089/134 "2007-02-14T21:39:43Z")
[QUOTE=magellan01] You slid “numerous” in there to make it appear as if it was a more common occurrence than it is. [/QUOTE] Oh sweet fuck, I really did give you more credit that you deserve. A quick search gives: > **[Latest news & breaking headlines](https://www.thetimes.com/)** > > The latest breaking UK, US, world, business and sport news from The Times and The Sunday Times. Go beyond today's headlines with in-depth analysis and comment. “According to Iraqi police, 11 bodies were pulled from the wreckage of the house, among them four women and five children aged between six months and five years. An official police report obtained by a US reporter for Knight Ridder newspapers said: “The American forces gathered the family members in one room and executed 11 people.”” [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/26/AR2006052602069.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/26/AR2006052602069.html) “BAGHDAD, May 26 – Witnesses to the slaying of 24 Iraqi civilians by U.S. Marines in the western town of Haditha say the Americans shot men, women and children at close range in retaliation for the death of a Marine lance corporal in a roadside bombing…Two U.S. military boards are investigating the incident as potentially the gravest violation of the law of war by U.S. forces in the three-year-old conflict in Iraq. The U.S. military ordered the probes after Time magazine presented military officials in Baghdad this year with the findings of its own investigation” [http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2006-06-30-us-probe\_x.htm](http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2006-06-30-us-probe_x.htm) "BEIJI, Iraq (AP) — Investigators believe a group of U.S. soldiers suspected of raping an Iraqi woman, then killing her and three members of her family plotted the attack for nearly a week, a U.S. military official said Saturday. Up to five soldiers are being investigated in the March killings, the fifth pending case involving alleged slayings of Iraqi civilians by U.S. troops." and in case you think I’m picking on Americans, here’s one for my mob: [http://web.amnesty.org/library/print/ENGMDE140072004](http://web.amnesty.org/library/print/ENGMDE140072004) “UK armed forces in Iraq have shot and killed Iraqi civilians, including an eight-year-old girl and a guest at a wedding celebration, in situations where there was no apparent threat to themselves or others, says a new report from Amnesty International.” Now how about you do me a favour and tell me how many cases you want me to cite to justify the use of the word numerous? Fucking sophists really do get on my tits. Oh, and as for the nonsense you were upset I didn’t reply to, namely: [QUOTE=magellan01] Yes, it happens. And when it does it’s called things like “murder”. And people are held accountable and removed from duty and then punished. [/QUOTE] We’re holding people accountable are we? Well the choices of your president and my fucking shambles of a prime minister have accounted for 56000 civilian deaths in Iraq, according to this lot. [http://www.iraqbodycount.org/](http://www.iraqbodycount.org/) - would you care to tell me what form of accountability has been applied? Or is it ok to wipe those deaths off the books if we claim them as collateral? See it’s all very convenient for you to focus on beheadings and insurgent attacks, but the maths are simple enough that I’d expect even you to follow the trend here. In a war that we started, coalition casualties stand at 3500. Iraqi civilian casualties stand at 56000. Iraqis are dying at a rate of 17 for every 1 of our troops killed,and we’re the ones responsible. Want to bang on about our moral superiority again, or say how nasty that rude man Der Trish is? Funny really. People get upset because Trish says he’d rather our troops die than their people, but you dismiss tens of thousands of deaths as collateral and that’s just fine. I would demonstrate my moral outrage by demanding you say it in my local, but frankly I’d be happier not to have a tedious little turd like you turn up anywhere I’m trying to enjoy a pint. ---
**Author:** ![Slypork](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@Slypork](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slypork)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-a-moment-of-your-time-if-you-would/392089/135 "2007-02-14T21:43:04Z")
When **Der Trihs** or anyone proclaims a desire for US soldiers to be killed, all I can think of are the friends I have who are currently serving over in Iraq and Afghanistan. These vicious, heartless cruel men and women who go out of their way to cause harm to innocent people. One man is guarding a courthouse in Baghdad where he insures that government officials aren’t gunned down simply because they are working to make an efficient and honest government. Oh, yeah, he is also helping to take care of a four year old girl who has been living in the courthouse since her parents were killed by a car bomb that was targeting government leaders. She has no one else to take care of her so these beasts are taking care of her like she was their little sister. They play with her, read to her (in English and Arabic), ask for care packages from home of clothes and shoes for her. How terrible of them. Another man is flying cargo and transport in Afghanistan. He brings in medical teams and drops food and medical supplies to isolated regions. He does this while being shot at with automatic weapons and shoulder fired missiles. What a bastard. And then there is the woman working as a medic in Iraq. Besides her regular duties of taking care of the coalition troops she also helps take care of local women and children, some of whom have never seen a doctor. She has seen abuse, rape, beatings, torture (sorry, not caused by coalition forces but by insurgents and/or husbands/fathers). How can someone like her be allowed to live. I hate the troops that violate the standards of decency and abuse their power, as happened in Abu Graib and other places. But those are the exceptions, not the rule. To cast that broad a net across these people is just as bad as the folks that hate all black people because some have committed crimes or that hate all Muslims because some have committed terrorist acts. **Der Trihs** is free to spout his rants against the troops and the government as much as he wants because he is living in a country that, by the nature of it’s founding charter, allows dissent without fear of incarceration by the government. He is also allowed to preach hatred against others safely through the anonymity of an Internet message board. I don’t hate **Der Trihs**. I pity him. I feel sorry that one person could be filled with so much anger and the injustices he perceives were targeted at him. I feel sorry that he feels the need to push buttons and belittle and anger people as a way to compensate for his powerlessness in high school when he was the victim. Now he can be the bully. He has my pity. And, just to drive him a little nuts, I will pray for him. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-a-moment-of-your-time-if-you-would/392089/136 "2007-02-14T21:43:54Z")
**Gary** , Do you really expect to have a rational conversation with a flag-waving, troop-cheering, dumbfuck Bushbot? FWIW, well said anyway. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-a-moment-of-your-time-if-you-would/392089/137 "2007-02-14T21:50:35Z")
**erie774** , everything you said up until the last two paragraphs were great. It is the kind of thing you should throw in his face, every time he spouts his ignorance. The last two paragraphs where you assume he was a dysfunctional High School kid and then the whole I’ll pray for him stuff just fuels his kind of ignorance. He can ignore everything else you said as you included the last two bits. I do have to join the chorus in being amazed he is 38. He sounds like he is in his early twenties. Jim ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-a-moment-of-your-time-if-you-would/392089/138 "2007-02-14T21:51:52Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] This is what he said – In response to this question – All armed services members in Iraq are enlistees. According to your asshole buddy, they are all scum who deserve to die, something he is actively hoping for. Perhaps you should turn on the light before jumping into bed with someone. [/QUOTE] You know, strawmen really do bore me. Deeply so. He said…in response to something…and so you claim that’s my stance. Oh, and then for bonus schoolyard points you call him my buddy, and say I hopped into bed with him. To help clear up your confusion, I’m fairly sure I’ve not met Der Trish, so couldn’t call him a buddy. There’s large chunks of the 80’s and 90’s where details are a bit scarce for me, but I really do not recall fucking/being fucked by an older man from California. Have you anything to actually say, or are you really quite as below par as your posts make out. If you disagree with something I’ve said, quote the bit and argue your ground. Failing that, please feel free to fuck off. Fuck me, sometimes I truly despair: “you should turn on the light before jumping into bed with someone” I mean…what? This is the best you can do for a rebuttal? The dumbing down of society really does depress the shit out of me sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-a-moment-of-your-time-if-you-would/392089/139 "2007-02-14T21:55:19Z")
BTW, this is the reality of your so-called “collateral damage” – and I might add that the Lancet Study, which concludes that over 600,000 Iraqis have died directly and/or indirectly as a result of this American clusterfuck are more than likely, due to the methodology used, to be closer to the truth than is the IBC. [The “Shock and Awe” Gallery](http://www.marchforjustice.com/shock&awe.php)\* So much for your alleged “moral superiority.” \*Warning: graphic content. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-a-moment-of-your-time-if-you-would/392089/140 "2007-02-14T22:05:46Z")
Adding to my prior point: [Iraq’s death toll is far worse than our leaders admit](http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article17059.htm) **The US and Britain have triggered an episode more deadly than the Rwandan genocide** > [@](#): > > …And finally, there was a study, peer-reviewed and published in The Lancet, Europe’s most prestigious medical journal, which put the death toll at 650,000 as of last July. The study, which I co-authored, was done by the standard cluster approach used by the UN to estimate mortality in dozens of countries each year. While the findings are imprecise, the lower range of possibilities suggested that the Iraq government was at least downplaying the number of dead by a factor of 10. > > **There are several reasons why the governments involved in this conflict have been able to confuse the issue of Iraqi deaths. Our Lancet report involved sampling and statistical analysis, which is rather dry reading. Media reports always miss most deaths in times of war, so the estimate by the media-based monitoring system, [Iraqbodycount.org](http://Iraqbodycount.org) (IBC) roughly corresponds with the Iraq government’s figures. Repeated evaluations of deaths identified from sources independent of the press and the Ministry of Health show the IBC listing to be less than 10 per cent complete, but because it matches the reports of the governments involved, it is easily referenced.** > > \ > > Several other estimates have placed the death toll far higher than the Iraqi government estimates, but those have received less press attention. When in 2005, a UN survey reported that 90 per cent of violent attacks in Scotland were not recorded by the police, no one, not even the police, disputed this finding. Representative surveys are the next best thing to a census for counting deaths, and nowhere but Iraq have partial tallies from morgues and hospitals been given such credence when representative survey results are available. > > The Pentagon will not release information about deaths induced or amounts of weaponry used in Iraq. On 9 January of this year, the embedded Fox News reporter Brit Hume went along for an air attack, and we learned that at least 25 targets were bombed that day with almost no reports of the damage appearing in the press. > > \ > > The consequences of downplaying the number of deaths in Iraq are profound for both the UK and the US. How can the Americans have a surge of troops to secure the population and promise success when the coalition cannot measure the level of security to within a factor of 10? How can the US and Britain pretend they understand the level of resentment in Iraq if they are not sure if, on average, one in 80 families have lost a household member, or one in seven, as our study suggests? > > If these two countries have triggered an episode more deadly than the Rwandan genocide, and have actively worked to mask this fact, how will they credibly be able to criticise Sudan or Zimbabwe or the next government that kills thousands of its own people? > > For longer than the US has been a nation, Britain has pushed us at our worst of moments to do the right thing. That time has come again with regard to Iraq. It is wrong to be the junior partner in an endeavour rigged to deny the next death induced, and to have spokespeople effectively respond to that death with disinterest and denial. > > Our nations’ leaders are collectively expressing belligerence at a time when the populace knows they should be expressing contrition. If that cannot be corrected, Britain should end its role in this deteriorating misadventure. It is unlikely that any historians will record the occupation of Iraq in a favourable light. Britain followed the Americans into this débâcle. Wouldn’t it be better to let history record that Britain led them out? Bolding mine. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-a-moment-of-your-time-if-you-would/392089.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-a-moment-of-your-time-if-you-would/392089.md?page=8)