# Der Trihs, a word **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 10, 2006, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-a-word/356172 "2006-05-10T02:29:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2006, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-a-word/356172/141 "2006-05-11T22:20:23Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > The attitude and the power one side might have at any given moment are two different things. On a debate board no one is going to throw you in jail for anything, so why not have as meaningful discussion on an issue you have so much interest in? And that requires to engaged parties. The point of this whole thing is that if you don’t ackowledge the other side the right to believe what they do without being an asshole, debate will either get shrill or shut down. I’ve bowed out of discussion a couple times for that very reason. And I don’t even practice a religion. Hmm. My response was to **JThunder** ’s claim that I thought that the other side couldn’t even claim to be right. Nothing is further from the truth, and I’d fight to the death to protect their right to claim they are correct. I’d even fight to preserve their right to claim they know they’re right. Where I draw the line is moving from statements into actions, unless they’ve got an ethical argument that does not depend on God saying something is wrong. (Unless they can produce their god, of course.) That was my question to you. Are you against absolutists of any stripe trying to impose their absolutist beliefs on us? This is not a trick question - I’d be surprised if you disagreed. I’d be surprised if most of those who profess religion around here disagree. That’s my dividing line. I’m for those who are against absolutism, no matter what their religious beliefs are, and against those in favor of it, again no matter what their religious beliefs are. My suspicion of most Western religions is that it can easily give cover for absolutism, since God is the ultimate Big Brother. ---
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2006, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-a-word/356172/142 "2006-05-11T23:35:26Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > You can remove paintings of the Madonna and Christ from a museum and reoplace it with other art, Jackson Pollack, for instance. That certainly doesn’t mean that Pollack’s art is now religious. True, but what Communist Russia and China did was more akin to removing the Madonna and Christ from a _church_, replacing it with Jackson Pollock, and telling the people to pray to it. All of a sudden, Pollock’s art is now religious. ---
**Author:** ![Kythereia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e8c25b/32.png) [@Kythereia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kythereia)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-a-word/356172/143 "2006-05-12T00:27:22Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > By the way, has anybody told **Der Trihs** that he’s being Pitted? Just wondering, since he hasn’t shown up to defend himself. :o My fault, I’ll find the thread. My original intent in starting this thread, IMHO, wasn’t to complain about **Trihs** being wrong. The thread was started to complain about **Trihs** being crass. Put another way: I say “I believe there is a God”, and an atheist says, “I disagree; I believe there is no God, but I respect your feelings”, fine, I have no problem with that. I say “I believe there is a God”, someone like **Der Trihs** comes up and says, “You’re a moronic delusional idiot following a bunch of pedophilic con-men spewing fairy-tale trash”, then I have a problem. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-a-word/356172/144 "2006-05-12T00:33:24Z")
> [@New Iskander](#): > > Speaking somewhat more strictly, Communism was a utopian socio-economic system that didn’t have place for religion whatsoever, tried to eliminate it by all possible means and used ‘atheism’ as a tool to achieve that goal. > > While living in USSR, I had to sit for many state sponsored classes of Atheism. Many of the teachers of Atheism in USSR sounded exactly like **Der Trihs**. Although, to be fair, the majority of those teachers were less radical, perhaps due to the fact they had lives. Now that was a beautiful slam. Pure poetry. I salute you 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-a-word/356172/145 "2006-05-12T03:03:07Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I was born Jewish, my parents were Jewish, If you’d been born Jewish to a Rasta and a Hindu, that would have been something. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-a-word/356172/146 "2006-05-12T03:11:14Z")
> [@George Kaplin](#): > > **Kid Chameleon** > > This sounds suspiciously like a challenge to prove God _doesn’t_ exist. Am I right? Can you please clarify this for me? I’d hate to foist ten paragraphs of hardcore philosobatory pontification on you if you hadn’t actually asked for it 🙂 I don’t believe he exists, so don’t do it for me. My remark was a bit more targeted to comments along the lines of ‘religions are X’ or ‘religions do X’ and not backing it up nor responding when a counter example is shown. There’s very little that all religions have in common and lambasting religion for the crusades is rediculous. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-a-word/356172/147 "2006-05-12T03:18:42Z")
> [@New Iskander](#): > > While living in USSR, I had to sit for many state sponsored classes of Atheism. Many of the teachers of Atheism in USSR sounded exactly like **Der Trihs**. Although, to be fair, the majority of those teachers were less radical, perhaps due to the fact they had lives. I thought this was pretty dam interesting as well as ironically very funny. 😃 Thanks for sharing. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-a-word/356172/148 "2006-05-12T03:24:05Z")
> [@New Iskander](#): > > Speaking somewhat more strictly, Communism was a utopian socio-economic system that didn’t have place for religion whatsoever, tried to eliminate it by all possible means and used ‘atheism’ as a tool to achieve that goal. Did they tell you why it was important to remove religion from society and replace it with atheism? ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-a-word/356172/149 "2006-05-12T03:37:01Z")
> [@dangermom](#): > > I think you’ve just missed it. IME it’s quite common for atheists to express such thoughts here in a more moderate fashion. Loopydude, Lobsang, and Rashak Mani have all done so in the past, IIRC–this is off the top of my head here, so I might be mistaken–and I know others have as well. But they weren’t usually so extreme that the discussion could not continue, and I have been happy to respond to them or keep reading the threads. > > IME it’s far more common here for atheists to call religious people delusional or gullible than it is for religious people to announce atheists are all going to hell, or even that they’re all immoral. > > I also agree with Frosted Glass’ comment that it’s just disrespectful of the boards. I still feel like I don’t know the relevant fora well enough to comment on this. I don’t feel I can start railing against **DT** because I’d just be taking your word for it (not that I don’t trust you), but I don’t feel I can, well, I don’t want to say defend him, but keep doing what I’ve been doing. > [@John Mace](#): > > First, I’m an atheist so I have no holy book. I’ve misread (heh) you quite severely, then. I apologize. > [@John Mace](#): > > And of course you know what I’m talking about. You’re redefining religion so that bad societal/governmental institutions fit. Let me guess-- Naziism was a religion, too, right? Very convenient. No and yes. You can call it convenient; I call it two religions with more similarities than differences. Tomato, tomahto. > [@magellan01](#): > > So, there’s nothing—NOTHING—in what Falwell preaches that you think has a nugget of truth in it? Nothing at all? Nothing about tolerance or the teachings of Jesus or forgiveness? Nothing? Either you have the most closed mind in the history of mankind or your just trying to be childish. I grant you there are other posibilities, as well. If Falwell teaches tolerance and forgiveness for all, and then that “God hates fags” and is taking vengeance upon the United States for our tolerance of them, I feel I must dismiss both as it’s rather difficult to figure out which one he’s really about. **DT** at least seems consistent. I’ll concede, though, that I know the works of both mostly by having stumbled upon them while focused on other things, and I mean, I don’t follow either one of them. There could be things about both I don’t know. From what I’ve seen, Falwell and Robertson are all about vitriol and bloody justice for perceived wrongs. Put another way, if you compare the apparent viewpoints of Falwell/Robertson vs. **Der Trihs** , Falwell/Robertson’s beliefs appear (to me, at least) to be full of ridiculous delusions with no foundation in truth whatsoever while I see **DT** ’s as being the extreme, overdone manifestations of what started out as logical observations. > [@magellan01](#): > > Oh, so in your mind, for something to be a religion, it MUST have oppressed and killed millions of people. I thiink I’m understanding you much better now. No. For something to be a religion, it MUST force people to make more significant dedications/changes in their lives than reading the NBA page in the sports section, buying shoes, or acknowledging a great scientific mind. > [@George Kaplin](#): > > For what it’s worth, I don’t buy into the whole Communism=Religion thing either. Neither do I. I hope Dopers start to actually read my posts and realize I’ve never equated communism itself to religion, before my viewpoint becomes a cliche here. > [@Lord Ashtar](#): > > When was the last time a theist said that to you in a debate? Be honest. And when was the last time an atheist said “You do know there’s no God, right?” to you in a debate? Stop taking things so literally. > [@cosmosdan](#): > > Ineviitable perhaps. That doesn’t mean they’re not both assholes. I’ll grant you that. Never said anything to the contrary, in fact. > [@cosmosdan](#): > > Is this your own bias showing? It’s what I thought was a funny response to the quoted passage. As much as I’ve said in his favor, **Der Trihs** reminds me more of zealotous assholes I know who follow Abrahamic religions than those who claim atheism/agnosticism. > [@cosmosdan](#): > > MAybe it’s because you have stopped listening after being exsposed to his BS too often. Heh, good point. I have nothing to say to this. > [@cosmosdan](#): > > If you don’t spend much time in GD or the pit then you’re missing it. There are several atheists here who provide a fine example of a better way. Hell, I’m a believer and I can’t stand Falwell or Swaggart. I just don’t think their atheistic clone is all that helpful. I’ll buy that. I’m starting to get a feeling that I’m delving into waters I’m not familiar enough with, and also as though I’m a pawn in a game where the subject of the pitting won’t show up and defend himself. I think I’ve been won over. > [@SteveG1](#): > > I’m going to TRY to be serious now. Anyone who says all religions by their very nature, or by their very existence are evil or kill people or are the sole cause of all bad things, whatever, is just lazy. I don’t know if you’re ranting about me here, but that belief has been attributed to me by others and I’ve never espoused it myself, nor do I hold it privately. > [@magellan01](#): > > No. It is an socio-economic theory, not a belief system. Unless you want to say that all theories are belief systems. And therefore all theories are religions. And I don’t think you want to say that, do you? Do you really feel that Stalinism was only a socio-economic theory? You don’t feel there was any element of faith or belief in Stalin/Lenin/etc.'s quest for your greater good? You don’t feel anyone had to put faith into the idea that Stalin just killed some otherwise innocent person because he was going to poison the believers with his disbelief? That’s how I see that nation, and I see Nazi Germany the same way even though the underlying economic theory is different. ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-a-word/356172/150 "2006-05-12T03:51:37Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > A-elephantist: (politely) You know there are no pink elephants in pajamas, don’t you? > > Elephantist: Of course there are! > > A-e: Have you ever seen one? > > … Anti-Elephantist: (politely) You know there’s no pink elephants in pajamas, don’t you? Elephantist: Of course there are! A-e: Have you ever seen one? Elephantist: Of course not? What kind of question is that? The Pink Elephant in Pajamas isn’t a physical being like you or I. A-e: So you admit there’s no such thing as a pink elephant in pajamas? Elephantist: That’s not what I said–I said it’s not a physical being. It doesn’t physically exist like grey elephants; its existence is more similar to a concept or a feelings existence then it is to a person’s existence. A-e: People who believe in Pink Elephants in Pajamas are the root of all evil; they are scabs upon humanity and all great evils that mankind has perpetuated have been done in the name of Pink Elephants in Pajamas. Elephantist: Communists didn’t belive in Pink Elephants, but they still did evil things. A-e: Communists _were_ Pink Elephants in Pajamas! Elephantist: No they weren’t Communism is a political ideology and Pink Elephants in Pajamas are supernatural beings. They’re fundamentally different. A-e: RELIGION IS FOR TEH SUXXORZ!!! OMG!! UR A CONFRIMIST!!! I"M SO MORE INTELGENT TEHN U! ---
**Author:** ![Othersider](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/cab0a1/32.png) [@Othersider](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Othersider)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-a-word/356172/151 "2006-05-12T04:24:13Z")
I’ve never liked the allegory of invisible pink unicorns, or whatever else, as an analogy for God. I’ve always thought of that as a straw man (or possibly one of those other logical fallacies). And I considered pitting **Der Trihs** , but now I’m glad I didn’t. I think a lot of you guys and girls have done a better job than I would have. $0.02 ---
**Author:** ![Jotun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/46a35a/32.png) [@Jotun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jotun)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-a-word/356172/152 "2006-05-12T06:29:00Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > What? This statement assumes that the offenses of the Soviet Union were due to religion. Where do you get that from? Many of the worst political movements in human history have been irreligious, they were also very irrational. That’s about the only parallel I can draw between religion and communism, they are both irrational. They both grasp on to dogma, and put very little emphasis on critical thinking. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-a-word/356172/153 "2006-05-12T06:50:56Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > If you’d been born Jewish to a Rasta and a Hindu, that would have been something. 🙂 Ah, feeble joke makes subtle point. If a god existed, this sort of thing should happen. I’d think that a kid without exposure to religion x growing up in a household of religion suddenly spouting the dogma of religion x would be powerful evidence for it. Don’t recall it ever happening, though. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-a-word/356172/154 "2006-05-12T06:55:33Z")
> [@Othersider](#): > > I’ve never liked the allegory of invisible pink unicorns, or whatever else, as an analogy for God. I’ve always thought of that as a straw man (or possibly one of those other logical fallacies). Well, the analogy is not quite the IPU for God, it is more how belief in the IPU without evidence (absurd on the face of it) is similar to the belief in God without solid evidence. A lot of it is to say to theists that if they examine their lack of belief in the IPU, they will understand our lack of belief in God. That invisible pinkness can be used as an analogy to the non-understandability of god is just the cherry on top. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-a-word/356172/155 "2006-05-12T11:52:09Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Ah, feeble joke makes subtle point. If a god existed, this sort of thing should happen. I’d think that a kid without exposure to religion x growing up in a household of religion suddenly spouting the dogma of religion x would be powerful evidence for it. Don’t recall it ever happening, though. Or perhaps God isn’t big on dogma? I’ve wondered if the succession of prophets was a failing attempt to get a simple message through and get away from dogma. If we, for the sake of argument, assume that God exists, then at most it seems that only one sect is on the right path so obviously humans are doing human things with a superhuman experience. Just like everything else, it’s people trying to get what they want out of something than the thing itself that produces bad results. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-a-word/356172/156 "2006-05-12T12:15:23Z")
> [@fetus](#): > > And when was the last time an atheist said “You do know there’s no God, right?” to you in a debate? Stop taking things so literally. “You know there’s no God, right?” is a better representation of the average atheist position than “I believe because my parents and the President do” is of the average theist position. That’s all I wanted to emphasize. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-a-word/356172/157 "2006-05-12T15:23:04Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > Did they tell you why it was important to remove religion from society and replace it with atheism? The best I remember, “Religion was opium of the masses”. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-a-word/356172/158 "2006-05-12T17:54:07Z")
> [@New Iskander](#): > > The best I remember, “Religion was opium of the masses”. Ah. Marx said it, I believe it, and that’s good enough for me. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-a-word/356172/159 "2006-05-12T20:37:42Z")
> [@Lord Ashtar](#): > > “You know there’s no God, right?” is a better representation of the average atheist position than “I believe because my parents and the President do” is of the average theist position. That’s all I wanted to emphasize. Being an atheist, I may be misinterpreting what I see, or not seeing all of it–but the way _I_ see it, most religious people believe because they were told to by their parents. I wouldn’t say the President has anything to do with it, but our culture does\* and maybe the President is a symbol of that. That said, I see where you’re coming from, as few believers would outright say “I believe because my parents and the people around me believe” (even though it’s usually true, and often true even for atheists) while one can more feasibly imagine an atheist actually saying “You know there’s no God, right?” in a debate. Well, honestly, logically there isn’t. But if there’s anything I’ve learned from this thread, it’s that saying so, plain out, doesn’t get you anywhere. - Our culture also emphasizes the virtues of atheism in various ways, too. It’s obviously not a one-way street. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2006, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-a-word/356172/160 "2006-05-13T01:33:26Z")
**Voyager** , take off your blinders for a moment and listen. I’m a little old retired Southern school teacher who gets together with eleven other retired teachers and school board members once a month. Several in the group are pretty active in various church groups as volunteers. There may be a couple of us who weren’t teachers. To the best of my knowledge, there is not a soul in the group who is opposed to gay rights or women’s rights. We would be horrified at the thought of murdering _anyone_ including a doctor who performs abortions. We understand the concept of separation of church and state and don’t see a conspiracy to undermine our annual Christmas party. Some of us curse like demons, but still believe in the power of prayer. Personally, I _am_ probably a Christian because I grew up in a Christian household. For that I am grateful. Through my father’s open-mindedness and a series of coincidences and experiences, I grew to be open to other ways of thinking and other beliefs. For that I am also grateful. The “God” that I believe in is probably not the God that you think that I believe in. No one is shut out of anything because we are all basically the same thing. That is what I believe more than _anything._ Here at SDMB, I would hope that intelligent Dopers would not make me a “victim” of the various labels that fit me (Christian, teacher, Southerner, old woman) but which are loaded because of ignorance or bigotry. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-a-word/356172.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-a-word/356172.md?page=9)