# Der Trihs, I call B\*\*\*S\*\*\* **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 22, 2008, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-i-call-b-s/460901 "2008-08-22T04:43:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2008, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-i-call-b-s/460901/161 "2008-08-26T23:43:26Z")
[QUOTE=tomndebb] How “playing dumb”? I had already responded with the same perspective before “murderous” was interjected into the conversation. Why would I not continue to see the discussion from my perspective? **Starving Artist** ’s response to my second post made no mention of the death fantasies. **Shodan** dragged the death wishes into the conversation, but since he had already posted several accusations earlier in the thread without making them an issue, his comments seemed, to me, to be simply piling on things to quarrel over rather than some new actual offense. Your post mentioned a death wish in a different context and appeared as a follow-on to **Shodan**. I am not claiming that I understood the direction you two were going, but it was more a matter of reading the posts from my original perspective rather than ignoring the death issue or pretending that it was never present. [/QUOTE] OK, to clarify matters, I wasn’t following what \*\*Shodan \*\* said at all. In fact, I wasn’t participating in this thread…my first post to it was that link to **Acid Lamp’s** post. I was directly referencing what **Der Trihs** was being pitted for…his claim that it’s the people on the right that we need to be afraid of where gun ownership is concerned. The ensuing conversation seemed to all be referencing that post of mine…considering that **Starving Artist** responded to me, **mswas** responded to him, etc. (Which you seemed to agree with, based on your reiteration of the exchange in post #154.) ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2008, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-i-call-b-s/460901/162 "2008-08-26T23:57:17Z")
[QUOTE=FinnAgain] Whether or not an interpretation has weight is based on _whether or not it is in accord with the facts and offers a cogent analysis_. While you are certianly corrupt, you’re also clearly not stupid. You know the who someone is has no bearing on whether or not their interpretations are true. Your continued and blatant celebration of your moderating biases where **Shodan** is concerned should be cause for embarrassment. But not only are not not ashamed, you seem to be proud to publicly admit that you are incapable of moderating, (or choose not to moderate) with anything but prejudice and bias where he is concerned. [/QUOTE] Your first point is true, but not in the way you want it to be. Interpretation of a subjective event clearly includes the personalities involved as well as the context of the events. Those personalities and overall context are every bit as much of the “facts” as the words that actually appear on the page. (Otherwise, friendly insults would be impossible, yet they clearly exist.) I agree that my relationship with Shodan is troubling, but since he is careful to stay behind the technical lines of the rules, I see no reason to actually reprimand him for his frequently disruptive behavior. I suppose that I could shut him down when he is disruptive, but, like **Carol Stream** ’s behavior, I do not think that it is sufficiently disruptive to warrant action. As to **Sevastopol** , his “final Warning” was issued at the end of a brief period in which he garnered three in a few months. Following that he received no Warnings for over a year, received one, then again went over a year without receiving a Warning. Back when the board was only a few years old, simply counting the number of Warnings made sense. As the board has aged, we have tended to look at the number of Warnings collected in a short period of time, not since the board was initiated. While he is hardly an ideal poster, **Sevastopol** has stayed inside the boundaries often enough to avoid banning, just as several other posters have–a couple of them now considered valued posters despite having received “final Warnings” several years back. **Argent Tower** ’s thread was closed [because the line between calling the beliefs of various groups and the beliefs of individual posters had been blurred on numerous occasions by numerous posters in the thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=10127544#post10127544). It was not closed because he called one belief stupid on one occasion. (That is how he spun it in the subsequent thread that addressed the topic again and in which he declined to participate further, but that was not the reason.) He opened the thread with a **Pit** rant and his single use of the word “stupid” was hardly the only **Pit** -like comment in it. Despite that inauspicious beginning, I allowed the thread to proceed for many posts until it was clear that the personal hostility was going to overwhelm the topic–and I noted in closing that the topic was still open to discussion provided that it was not wrapped in personal acrimony. [QUOTE=FinnAgain] The response, however, was that Der received something of a [compliment](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9845305&postcount=75) from a mod for being “honest” enough to admit that it was just his opinion that he was using to back up his act of flaming all Dopers with political views sufficiently opposed to his. (Flaming is okay in GD as long as you personally insult more Dopers at a go than just one. I’m guessing three is the magic number). [/QUOTE] I’m impressed by your ability to distort something even when you quote it. The whole thread was partisan sniping with hardly a fact in evidence (and not generally directed at other posters, initially). As it began to run off the rails, one poster took a personal swipe at **Der Trihs** for expressing opinions and I noted that at least he admitted that his opinions were opinions rather than being [_reverb_] _Edicts of Truth_ [_/reverb_] or something. I then told the poster to knock off the personal attacks. It is not permissible to insult groups of posters _as posters_, but it is not prohibited to insult large categories of people. (If your claim was true, you should have received multiple Warnings for insulting anti-semites–a group that you consider to be significant in **Great Debates**.) You will note in each of these instances that what is permitted is expression, (regardless how objectionable some find it), and what is not permitted are personal attacks or disruptive behavior that will tend to shut down the expression of opinions. I don’t care what **Der Trihs** believes or what sort of rants he spouts. As long as he is content to rattle off his list of attitudes and most posters are smart enough to ignore him, he is not hurting anyone. If anyone wishes to engage him in order to show where he is wrong, they are welcome to do that as well. His claims that **all** the members of various groups are evil or stupid are, themselves, stupid. However, they are so stupid that no one takes them seriously and they are not really impinging on the board. Too often the claims for “fighting ignorance” resolve to “the staff should suppress the views that I don’t want to see aired.” I’m sorry, but I figure good ideas, well presented, should be sufficient rebuttal without the heavy hand of the staff to support them. Posters who submit nonsense in ways that disrupt the board are liable to be reined it, but if their nonsense is not disruptive, I see no reason why I should be arbiter of Truth. Even insults are prohibited NOT because insulting people is bad (read _The Straight Dope_ some time), but because personal insults tend to derail the discussions. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2008, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-i-call-b-s/460901/163 "2008-08-27T00:17:18Z")
The reverb on your Edicts of Truth broke my speakers. Who’s going to pay for that? ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2008, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-i-call-b-s/460901/164 "2008-08-27T00:29:53Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > No, I did not report it, because mod action or inaction is irrelevant to my point. As far as I’m concerned, I wouldn’t care if no one was officially chastised for that kind of remark, no matter what group it was directed at. I was referring to the non-reaction by everyone who read that post of Acid Lamp’s and just went right on to the next post with nary a blink. The point of that thread is confessions. Imagine if you went to a counselor’s office and got berated harshly and loudly by the counselor every time you mentioned the things you don’t tell anyone else. I can understand making a new thread, but confessions should be kept free of negative judgement. (And I thought it was incredibly disturbing as well) ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2008, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-i-call-b-s/460901/165 "2008-08-27T01:07:45Z")
Just one point, **Tom** : on the one hand you say that the “report a post” function is a tool that should be used by posters. But then you share publicly that a particular poster uses it, albeit not seldom. Do you see how the latter might tend to cut down on the former? That is all. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2008, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-i-call-b-s/460901/166 "2008-08-27T01:50:51Z")
[QUOTE=pedescribe] The point of that thread is confessions. Imagine if you went to a counselor’s office and got berated harshly and loudly by the counselor every time you mentioned the things you don’t tell anyone else. I can understand making a new thread, but confessions should be kept free of negative judgement. (And I thought it was incredibly disturbing as well) [/QUOTE] But the confession itself was a negative judgement, surely? If **Acid Lamp** is allowed to share his murderous thoughts, it’s only fair that others be allowed to share their negative thoughts towards his/her confession. Plus there’s a difference between counselling where presumably such thoughts may be overlooked with a higher purpose in mind or the focus of counselling, and a post on a message board that seemed to me to be almost boastful - but that’s just my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2008, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-i-call-b-s/460901/167 "2008-08-27T01:53:32Z")
[QUOTE=magellan01] Just one point, **Tom** : on the one hand you say that the “report a post” function is a tool that should be used by posters. But then you share publicly that a particular poster uses it, albeit not seldom. Do you see how the latter might tend to cut down on the former?. [/QUOTE] I’ll bet the guy who called 911 to report his inadequately-made Subway sandwich was irked to see his name in the papers. With luck, it won’t discourage him from reporting future emergencies, e.g. too few mayonnaise packets or a toyless Happy Meal. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2008, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-i-call-b-s/460901/168 "2008-08-27T03:25:29Z")
[QUOTE=Vinyl Turnip] I’ll bet the guy who called 911 to report his inadequately-made Subway sandwich was irked to see his name in the papers. With luck, it won’t discourage him from reporting future emergencies, e.g. too few mayonnaise packets or a toyless Happy Meal. [/QUOTE] You really think that is a good analogy? :smack: Let’s spell it out, Number 4: In this SDMB instance we’re talking about an action that the powers that be supposedly want people to take. In your example, the person took an action in contacting the authorities that they DO NOT want people to take. I hope that helps. I doubt it will, but there’s no harm in hoping. [Sigh.] ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2008, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-i-call-b-s/460901/169 "2008-08-27T03:29:01Z")
[QUOTE=magellan01] Just one point, **Tom** : on the one hand you say that the “report a post” function is a tool that should be used by posters. But then you share publicly that a particular poster uses it, albeit not seldom. Do you see how the latter might tend to cut down on the former? [/QUOTE] I asked (pretty much rhetorically) whether either of two posters who were upset about a post in **MPSIMS** had reported it. The response was a claim by **Shodan** that he had reported posts in **Great Debates** to no effect. At that point, it seemed appropriate to note that he had submitted lots and lots of Reports, many deemed to lack justification. His response was to make a point of calling out specific posts that he had reported. I responded to those claims and further noted that his Reporting, even if excessive, was occassionally useful. (I also noted that his Reporting was selective, apparently basing what to report on his agreement or disagreement with the posters in question.) If the topic of Reports and responses to Reports was not appropriate, then **Shodan** should have considered not bringing it up. I have responded specifically to **Shodan** ’s comments. It is not my habit to point out posts or posters involved in a Report situation, but it seems silly to refrain from responding to a direct statement by the poster in which the details are laid out by him. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2008, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-i-call-b-s/460901/170 "2008-08-27T03:57:10Z")
I think I hear the beck and call of Vagisil for some of you. Jesus tapdancing Christ on a pogostick. What an expenditure of creative energies for naught. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2008, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-i-call-b-s/460901/171 "2008-08-27T04:38:47Z")
[QUOTE=tomndebb] I asked (pretty much rhetorically) whether either of two posters who were upset about a post in **MPSIMS** had reported it… [/QUOTE] Yeah, I see your point. But this: > [@](#): > > You report so many borderline (or even clearly acceptable under the rules) posts in GD that you have earned a reputation for crying “Wolf!” (And since you frequently report “insults” toward the Right in threads where similar or worse “insults” have been hurled at the Left that you do not report, I tend to “consider the source” whenever you spew these accusations in the Pit.) …I feel was very inappropriate. I find it surprising, unfortunate, and unseemly that a moderator would share information that members don’t have when it was not necessary, as per your explanation. (I’m referring only to the passage I cited.) I would think that mods, and administrators, would choose to err on the side of keeping opinions of posters that the mods and/or administrators might collectively hold to themselves. As it is, your action here has discouraged reporting posts on the future. Or doing so _often_. Which I think you would agree is a problem because we run into the another problem: discerning what the meaning of “often” is. Anyway, I’m disappointed. Not that anyone gives a crap… Onward. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2008, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-i-call-b-s/460901/172 "2008-08-27T07:24:10Z")
nevermind ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2008, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-i-call-b-s/460901/173 "2008-08-27T13:13:40Z")
[QUOTE=tomndebb] I asked (pretty much rhetorically) whether either of two posters who were upset about a post in **MPSIMS** had reported it… If the topic of Reports and responses to Reports was not appropriate, then **Shodan** should have considered not bringing it up. [/quote] A quick correction - **tomndebb** was the one who brought up the topic of reporting posts. He asked if “ **Acid Lamp** ’s specific post” had been reported, **Sarahfeena** and I both responded that we had not. **Sarahfeena** said she did not because mod action was not the point of her post. I responded because I had reported direct insults in GD in the past, and no action had been taken. It was at that point that **tomndebb** began the discussion of his perception of my reporting of posts - > [@](#): > > You report so many borderline (or even clearly acceptable under the rules) posts in GD that you have earned a reputation for crying “Wolf!” (And since you frequently report “insults” toward the Right in threads where similar or worse “insults” have been hurled at the Left that you do not report, I tend to “consider the source” whenever you spew these accusations in the Pit.) which is an ingenious construction, because it puts me on the horns of a dilemma. An insult, which would otherwise garner a warning, will be ignored if I report it. So, some insults I simply have to ignore, because nothing will be done whether I report it or not. > [@FinnAgain](#): > > If you are honestly so biased against a poster that you cannot look at his claims on their merit alone, and instead filter them through the lens of who he is as a poster or whether or not he also reports objectionable posts from “the other side”, then you need to get a hold on yourself or resign. QFT. On the one hand, he complains that I report too much; on the other, that I report too few. > [@tomndebb](#): > > …like Carol Stream’s behavior, I do not think that it is sufficiently disruptive to warrant action. I suppose this, and your ruling on use of the phrase “you are a pill” (and, presumably, “paranoid nutcase”) are as close as we can get to an official ruling - both calling another poster “a pill” or saying that they speak “paranoid nutcase” **and Carol Stream’s posts** are acceptable, not disruptive, and not deserving of warnings. Good to know. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2008, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-i-call-b-s/460901/174 "2008-08-27T13:39:28Z")
[QUOTE=magellan01] You really think that is a good analogy? :smack: Let’s spell it out, Number 4: In this SDMB instance we’re talking about an action that the powers that be supposedly want people to take. In your example, the person took an action in contacting the authorities that they DO NOT want people to take. [/QUOTE] Well, yeah. Not to brag, but I thought it wasn’t a half-bad analogy. Neither **Shodan** nor sandwich-guy is prohibited from their particular recourse for seeking help, but neither method is designed to be abused. Not being privy to each of **Shodan** ’s myriad cries of outrage—each one no doubt completely justifiable, which will one day be revealed and confirmed in all their abject horror by some independent Truth Commission —I rely on **tom** ’s word. It does not, unfortunately, tax the imagination that **Shodan** would seek to bog down the board’s moderators (and **tomndebb** specifically) with innumerable petty partisan complaints. If only it did! Despite convincing performances to the contrary, you poor, put-upon souls are not stupid, and you know exactly what you’re doing with all your melodramatic wails and semantic nattering. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2008, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-i-call-b-s/460901/175 "2008-08-27T15:49:24Z")
[QUOTE=Vinyl Turnip] Well, yeah. Not to brag, but I thought it wasn’t a half-bad analogy. [/QUOTE] Well, it wasn’t half-bad. It was all bad. Completely inapt. It didn’t work. Period. I’ve explained that, but you’re either too dense or, and this is my take, just too stupid. Literally. If you want me to keep attempting to educate you, I will need to be compensated financially. It is only fair. [QUOTE=Vinyl Turnip] It does not, unfortunately, tax the imagination that **Shodan** would seek to bog down the board’s moderators (and **tomndebb** specifically) with innumerable petty partisan complaints. If only it did! [/QUOTE] But it does tax the imagination that one cold be as stupid as you and operate a computer. See how you have to go over the top and characterize Shodan’s reportings as 1)innumerable, 2) petty, and 3) partisan? That should have tipped you off that you’re talking out of your ass. Especially since your oracle, Tom, stipulated himself that some of his reportings were valid and helpful. And it would have dawned on you if you weren’t of such low IQ. And given you’re grasp of anaolgies, that’s a clear fact. [QUOTE=Vinyl Turnip] Despite convincing performances to the contrary, you poor, put-upon souls are not stupid, and you know exactly what you’re doing with all your melodramatic wails and semantic nattering. [/QUOTE] Congratulations, you know what a thesaurus is. You sound like Cornell West or the Wyans brothers doing their schtick from the TV show channeling him as two guys in jail. And make as much sense. I can see that your trying. But you must try harder. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2008, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-i-call-b-s/460901/176 "2008-08-27T16:05:06Z")
[QUOTE=magellan01] Anyway, I’m disappointed. Not that anyone gives a crap… [/QUOTE] You know, I read this post, and the very first thing that came to mind was when an Army whistleblower provided pictures of Abu Ghraib and the like, and the administration’s response was to ban cameras. Forget about the bad thing, let’s get pissed that someone talked about the bad thing. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2008, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-i-call-b-s/460901/177 "2008-08-27T16:16:08Z")
[QUOTE=Bosstone] You know, I read this post, and the very first thing that came to mind was when an Army whistleblower provided pictures of Abu Ghraib and the like, and the administration’s response was to ban cameras. Forget about the bad thing, let’s get pissed that someone talked about the bad thing. [/QUOTE] This must be a whoosh. You’ve GOT to be kidding me. Please tell me this is a whoosh. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2008, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-i-call-b-s/460901/178 "2008-08-27T16:29:03Z")
[QUOTE=magellan01] This must be a whoosh. You’ve GOT to be kidding me. Please tell me this is a whoosh. [/QUOTE] Hey, I just said it was the first thing I thought of. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2008, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-i-call-b-s/460901/179 "2008-08-27T16:30:56Z")
[QUOTE=Bosstone] Hey, I just said it was the first thing I thought of. [/QUOTE] Whew. Good. Maybe next time you should share the second thing you think of. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2008, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-i-call-b-s/460901/180 "2008-08-27T16:39:08Z")
[QUOTE=magellan01] See how you have to go over the top and characterize Shodan’s reportings as 1)innumerable, 2) petty, and 3) partisan? That should have tipped you off that you’re talking out of your ass. [/QUOTE] You are correct; the word “innumerable” was hyperbole and I’m sorry if that confused you. He obviously has not reported an infinite number of posts. Nos. 2 and 3, however, fairly characterize what **tom** said about many (again, not a literal infinite number) of **Shodan** ’s reportings. [QUOTE=magellan01] Congratulations, you know what a thesaurus is. You sound like Cornell West or the Wyans brothers doing their schtick from the TV show channeling him as two guys in jail. And make as much sense. [/QUOTE] See, now you’re just trying to hurt my feelings. And here I thought we were friends. I do own a thesaurus, but rarely use it. I’m sorry if my comments drove you to a dictionary. In the future I will try to better adapt my language to my audience, and will remember to qualify statements such as “you people are not stupid,” in light of the occasional glaring exception. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-i-call-b-s/460901.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-i-call-b-s/460901.md?page=10)