# Der Trihs Pitting du jour **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 7, 2011, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-pitting-du-jour/566714 "2011-01-07T04:39:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2013, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-pitting-du-jour/566714/321 "2013-11-17T19:49:20Z")
> [@Iggy](#): > > A black person may be [more likely to benefit](http://www.redcrossblood.org/learn-about-blood/blood-types) from a blood transfusion from another black person if the recipient has sickle cell disease. > > I get my racist membership card now? _meh_ You are looking at a Public Service Announcement aimed at North Americans. All you have done is provide an example of the sort of thing I mentioned previously. You will have to wait for **MrDibble** ’s response to see whether you qualify as a racist or just a smart ass with inadequate reading skills. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2013, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-pitting-du-jour/566714/322 "2013-11-17T20:00:28Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > _meh_ > > You are looking at a Public Service Announcement aimed at North Americans. > All you have done is provide an example of the sort of thing I mentioned previously. > > You will have to wait for **MrDibble** ’s response to see whether you qualify as a racist or just a smart ass with inadequate reading skills. 😉 Does v-Bulletin support attaching an “R” to usernames that quality? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2013, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-pitting-du-jour/566714/323 "2013-11-17T21:01:17Z")
> [@armedmonkey](#): > > ETA: I did say “African American” in the part you apparently didn’t read. I read it. But that wasn’t the statement I quoted, now was it? Like I said, if you say “Blacks [something scientific]” you’re just wrong. > [@Steophan](#): > > Does that apply to groups that work for black people? Or people who advertise hair care or make up products to black people? Or just to white people you disagree with and want to insult? Anytime you group all Black people together, you’re wrong. > [@tomndebb](#): > > _ehh_ > > I think context counts for more than you are allowing. A lot of studies used in the U.S. show up in the popular press or in PSAs with the population descriptor reduced to “blacks” or “African Americans.” But is that how the _actual studies_ are constructed? And yes, those PSAs/popularizations are wrong. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > Blacks belong to the species _H. sapiens._ > > Can I has racist now? :rolleyes: OK, I’ll add the caveat “unless you’re being a facetious fuckhole” to my statement. Happy? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2013, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-pitting-du-jour/566714/324 "2013-11-17T21:05:26Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > “Blacks have skin with a higher amount of melanin?” Racist? Than Dravidians and Melanesians? And if they’re from Ethiopia or Somalia? Hell yes, it’s racist to assume Blacks have more melanin than non-Blacks. > [@](#): > > “Blacks tend to have kinkier hair than whites?” Racist? Not so much, no. Congratulations, you’ve found a scientific-ish statement that works. My entire position is now invalidated.:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2013, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-pitting-du-jour/566714/325 "2013-11-17T21:09:17Z")
> [@Iggy](#): > > A black person may be [more likely to benefit](http://www.redcrossblood.org/learn-about-blood/blood-types) from a blood transfusion from another black person if the recipient has sickle cell disease. …or [an Indian or a Turk or a Kuwaiti.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sickle_cell_distribution.jpg). And NOT a Zulu or a Mozambican or a Namibian or a Somalian or Ethiopian. Despite the latter being Black. See the [racism](http://www.understandingrace.org/humvar/sickle_01.html) now? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2013, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-pitting-du-jour/566714/326 "2013-11-17T21:21:45Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > See the [racism](http://www.understandingrace.org/humvar/sickle_01.html) now? No. There’s no racism in that statement, or any of the ones I talked about. Racism is discrimination against people because of their skin colour. Grouping people by race for neutral purposes is not racism. Saying black people are more likely to get sickle cell than white people is not racist. Saying black and white people need different hair care products isn’t racist. Hell, saying that black Americans on average do worse in school than others isn’t racist. But saying that any given black person must be stupid, and treating them as such because of their skin colour, would be. Whether you like this or not, frankly, doesn’t matter. Actual facts, actual observations _cannot_ be racist. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2013, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-pitting-du-jour/566714/327 "2013-11-17T21:43:53Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Does v-Bulletin support attaching an “R” to usernames that quality? > [@MrDibble](#): > > …or [an Indian or a Turk or a Kuwaiti.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sickle_cell_distribution.jpg). And NOT a Zulu or a Mozambican or a Namibian or a Somalian or Ethiopian. Despite the latter being Black. > > See the [racism](http://www.understandingrace.org/humvar/sickle_01.html) now? So I now can haz Iggy® as my updated username!? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2013, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-pitting-du-jour/566714/328 "2013-11-17T22:21:26Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Actual facts, actual observations _cannot_ be racist. But that’s the way a certain type of person deals with actual facts and observations that are uncomfortable - deny that they are facts, and then shut off the discussion by crying racism. Fortunately, they often deal with the problem by descending (or ascending) into self-parody, as in “any scientific observation about blacks is racist”. Then the rest of us know when to argue back, and when just to point and laugh. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2013, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-pitting-du-jour/566714/329 "2013-11-17T22:32:50Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > OK, I’ll add the caveat “unless you’re being a facetious fuckhole” to my statement. Happy? I’m very happy. But you’re just wrong. Hedging doesn’t change that. ---
**Author:** ![kurtisokc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbce88/32.png) [@kurtisokc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kurtisokc)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2013, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-pitting-du-jour/566714/330 "2013-11-17T23:18:40Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > Atheists are often accused of this, and I’ve never see an example of it being true. Well, C.S. Lewis wrote that he became an atheist as a young man partly as a result of his mother’s death. Really, I have no idea how common it is, but I don’t doubt that it is true in some cases. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2013, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-pitting-du-jour/566714/331 "2013-11-17T23:41:11Z")
> [@armedmonkey](#): > > That’s not the point. The point is bias. Fox News gets it’s basic facts right, but it’s biased as fucking hell and you can’t trust how they “report” what ever the subject is. On the flip side, there is no way in Hell that I am going to take a news source called “RightWingWatch” seriously. Just no. No, Fox News does not get its facts right, and it does not represent its facts fairly. And Media Matters for America is a group with an agenda, but one that nonetheless _publishes full transcripts_ that you can view yourself. Or are full transcipts biased in your worldview? Right Wing Watch is sponsored by People for the American Way. If you can’t distinguish spin from fact you need to work harder in my opinion. Fox News false claims from the past week. From Media Matters for America: Fox host Neil Cavuto pretended that the Affordable Care Act’s (ACA) ban on gender discrimination, which requires all policies to include maternity care coverage, was never “telegraphed” to the American people when the law was first discussed – Cavuto is right, if you ignore repeated remarks made by President Obama, Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius, and multiple media outlets prior to the bill’s passage. And here’s another example: After attacking Obamacare by highlighting easily debunked personal anectodes, Fox hosted another guest who falsely claimed the health care law would harm him personally without checking to make sure his story was accurate. > **[Fox Imagines Much-Discussed Universal Maternity Coverage Was Kept Secret](https://www.mediamatters.org/fox-news/fox-imagines-much-discussed-universal-maternity-coverage-was-kept-secret)** > **[Fox Airs Another Misleading Obamacare "Horror" Story](https://www.mediamatters.org/fox-news/fox-airs-another-misleading-obamacare-horror-story)** The Economist Magazine and the news section of the Wall Street Journal are conservative publications in their home countries but they generally get their facts straight. When they don’t, they issue clarification and correction. Fox News is nothing like that: they consistently screw up their facts. Notice that I took examples from the past week (past 3 days actually). You can do that most of the time. Factual inaccuracy: this is a _feature_ for most modern US conservatives. We know this because they won’t denounce Fox News. ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2013, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-pitting-du-jour/566714/332 "2013-11-17T23:43:03Z")
I find the vast panoply of humanity to be underrepresented here, but still this is the best message board I have ever been a member of (and we are talking about since 1974 when a bunch of us wrote a program at Georgia Tech called ‘forum’). That having been said, the outriders of any dataset of humans (and I believe Der Trihs matches those specifications) are the most interesting to me. Irritating and outrageous, yes. Commonly wrong and difficult to process, but interesting nevertheless. And, based upon the information from this website (noted upthread) [http://ovalkwiki.com/Lieutenant+Commander+John+Der+Trihs](http://ovalkwiki.com/Lieutenant+Commander+John+Der+Trihs) we probably should cut this guy some slack. > [@](#): > > His miraculous survival streak can be credited to a skull that has been completely replaced with carbonan and piezogel, giving him a bulletproof, blastproof, fireproof travel case for his brain. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2013, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-pitting-du-jour/566714/333 "2013-11-17T23:47:03Z")
> [@armedmonkey](#): > > “Black” is a sloppy term, but it’s used a lot without being racist. And sometimes it’s science! It’s used a lot in surveys, scientific and otherwise, partly because single words of less than 8 letters code well. Race is commonly used as a control variable in the social sciences with US samples. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-pitting-du-jour/566714/334 "2013-11-18T00:13:33Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Evidently not. See his post just above. Yep. It’s amazing. Even with the red type and underlining, the point, sharpened to dangerous obviousness, was unable to penetrate the fat around the brain. > [@Monty](#): > > Not enough alliteration. How about _Broad Brush BS Bros_? Excellent!. B I think that the Broad Brush Bullshit Brothers rolls off the tongue even better. Though you’re version would be better for the insignia on their dunce caps. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-pitting-du-jour/566714/335 "2013-11-18T00:16:32Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > No. There’s no racism in that statement, or any of the ones I talked about. Racism is discrimination against people because of their skin colour. Grouping people by race for neutral purposes is not racism. Saying black people are more likely to get sickle cell than white people is not racist. Saying black and white people need different hair care products isn’t racist. > > Hell, saying that black Americans on average do worse in school than others isn’t racist. But saying that any given black person must be stupid, and treating them as such because of their skin colour, would be. Whether you like this or not, frankly, doesn’t matter. > > Actual facts, actual observations _cannot_ be racist. According to him, it sounds like reality has a racist bias. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-pitting-du-jour/566714/336 "2013-11-18T00:18:21Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Than Dravidians and Melanesians? And if they’re from Ethiopia or Somalia? > > Hell yes, it’s racist to assume Blacks have more melanin than non-Blacks. Nope. Not even close. Your confusing racial with racist. > [@MrDibble](#): > > Not so much, no. Congratulations, you’ve found a scientific-ish statement that works. My entire position is now invalidated.:rolleyes: Good. Glad you finally see the light. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-pitting-du-jour/566714/337 "2013-11-18T00:30:49Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > But that’s the way a certain type of person deals with actual facts and observations that are uncomfortable - deny that they are facts, and then shut off the discussion by crying racism. > > Fortunately, they often deal with the problem by descending (or ascending) into self-parody, as in “any scientific observation about blacks is racist”. Then the rest of us know when to argue back, and when just to point and laugh. > > Regards, > Shodan And this is why I was happy to have the conversation move away from **Der Trihs** a bit and have some of these people try to support their whines of racism. The former has a low bar and very little reward. Only the most blindly partisan apologists will seek to defend him. But holding to the fire the feet of those who you describe above is much more rewarding. I particularly love the fact that they seem so surprised that they would be challenged at all. It’s as if their "thought process: is simply. 1. racism bad 2. talking about race uses the same root as racism/racist 3. therefore it is the same thing And when cornered, “B-b-b-but there’s not such thing as race”. Chuckle. Chuckle. Yawn. Chuckle. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-pitting-du-jour/566714/338 "2013-11-18T05:13:57Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Grouping people by race for neutral purposes is not racism. _Repeatedly_ grouping people _wrongly_ by their skin colour when we know that it is bad science, j\*ust because \*of their skin colour and continent of origin and for no other reasons, _is_ racist. > [@](#): > > Saying black people are more likely to get sickle cell than white people is not racist. _Yes_, it is. Are Turks not White? Are Italians? Are Zulus not Black? And Somalis? It is _both_ wrong and racist to say Sickle cell is a Black trait. > [@](#): > > Saying black and white people need different hair care products isn’t racist. It’s just barely “science”, too. There’s a hidden tautology there - you must actually _already_ be defining Black people as those dark people _with kinky hair_ - or else, why are the Dravidians not Black? And also doesn’t distinguish between Blacks, Melanesians and Aborigines. In fact, it creates a simple little classification scheme - is _everyone_ either Black or White, in this picture? On what basis? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-pitting-du-jour/566714/339 "2013-11-18T05:25:17Z")
> [@armedmonkey](#): > > I think science is hard for **MrDibble**. In case anybody cares about the science behind African Americans and kidneys, here’s what [DaVita](http://www.davita.com/gfr-calculator/) (a huge dialysis company) says: > > and to drive this post home, here’s what [The Renal Association](http://www.renal.org/whatwedo/InformationResources/CKDeGUIDE/NormalGFR.aspx) says on the GFR calculation: > “Black” is a sloppy term, but it’s used a lot without being racist. And sometimes it’s science! “ethnicity” =/= race. I don’t object to science using the former, I object to it using the latter. I’m getting the sense that in America, it’s being used synonymously with African-American, which greatly confuses the discussion. But that isn’t how I use it. I use it to mean “Sub-Saharan African” And for clarity, by race _I_ mean anytime anyone uses the traditional 3-7 races model. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-pitting-du-jour/566714/340 "2013-11-18T05:27:01Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Nope. Not even close. Your confusing racial with racist. This is a meaningless distinction only racists like to make. Which, no surprises there. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-pitting-du-jour/566714.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-pitting-du-jour/566714.md?page=18)