# Der Trihs Pitting du jour **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 7, 2011, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-pitting-du-jour/566714 "2011-01-07T04:39:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-pitting-du-jour/566714/361 "2013-11-18T14:40:06Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Okay, I’m game - under what circumstances would it not be racist to repeatedly make conclusions about false genetic groupings based on phenotype after being similarly repeatedly informed that those genetic groupings were in fact false? How about the circumstance where it is at best an oversimplification to assert that SIRE never correlates to a shared genetic history? Regards, Shodan PS - Stop making scientific statements about race, you racist racist, you. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-pitting-du-jour/566714/362 "2013-11-18T14:42:18Z")
> [@](#): > > I mean Black as it is used by the scientific racists and their fellow-travellers on this Board. Let’s see a cite that demonstrates this. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-pitting-du-jour/566714/363 "2013-11-18T14:43:54Z")
I see the Shodanning is starting… ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-pitting-du-jour/566714/364 "2013-11-18T14:48:53Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Let’s see a cite that demonstrates this. No. Not playing your stupid game - anyone with any interest can look up the numerous scientific racist threads, peppered all over GD, like so much diarrhoeic spew. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-pitting-du-jour/566714/365 "2013-11-18T14:56:46Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > How about the circumstance where it is at best an oversimplification to assert that SIRE never correlates to a shared genetic history? > > Regards, > Shodan > > PS - Stop making scientific statements about race, you racist racist, you. Hush, sweetie. Big people are talking. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-pitting-du-jour/566714/366 "2013-11-18T14:57:48Z")
Maybe, but they aren’t making any sense. Regards, Shodan PS - you racist. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-pitting-du-jour/566714/367 "2013-11-18T15:00:04Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > No. Not playing your stupid game - anyone with any interest can look up the numerous scientific racist threads, peppered all over GD, like so much diarrhoeic spew. I’ve read them. But you claimed you were using the same definitions of race as they do. I am not prepared to believe that until you show it. Of course, if you define actually proving what you say as a “stupid game”, well, then racistracistracist. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-pitting-du-jour/566714/368 "2013-11-18T15:04:39Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Maybe, but they aren’t making any sense. > > Regards, > Shodan > > PS - you racist. Because I’m not a racist, I support the right of Shodan, and other Mullet-Americans to _derp_ around like this. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-pitting-du-jour/566714/369 "2013-11-18T15:08:26Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I’ve read them. But you claimed you were using the same definitions of race as they do. I am not prepared to believe that until you show it. So you’ll happily defend racists’ posting rights without even the least awareness of what’s in their idol Rushton’s books? That’s nice. Just to keep others informed, Rushton was on the “Only 3 races: Black, White,Yellow” end of the spectrum. In 1995. Yes, that’s “19” in front there, not “18”. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-pitting-du-jour/566714/370 "2013-11-18T15:38:35Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I’ve defined my terms a while ago. So you can’t claim ignorance of what I meant when I said “Black” this late in the discussion. So no, I don’t mean “African-American” or “West Indian”, I mean Black as it is used by the scientific racists and their fellow-travellers on this Board. What does that have to do with what I said? What does how you define “black” have to do with determining who is most at risk of sickle cell in southern Africa? Are you just not bothering to read anyone else’s posts, or are you doing what you complain about “scientific racists” doing, and dropping your irrelevant hobby-horse bullshit in to derail a conversation? Look, “black” is a cultural descriptor. In some circumstances, it correlates well enough with genetic populations well enough to be a useful shorthand. Discussing what those circumstances are isn’t racist - even if I disagree with you about what they are. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-pitting-du-jour/566714/371 "2013-11-18T15:43:40Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > So you’ll happily defend racists’ posting rights without even the least awareness of what’s in their idol Rushton’s books? That’s nice. I am asking you to prove what you said, to which you responded that it was a stupid game to do so. > [@](#): > > Just to keep others informed, Rushton was on the “Only 3 races: Black, White,Yellow” end of the spectrum. In 1995. Yes, that’s “19” in front there, not “18”. Now prove that this is the definition used on the SDMB, which is what you claimed. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-pitting-du-jour/566714/372 "2013-11-18T15:50:31Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Now prove that this is the definition used on the SDMB, which is what you claimed. > > Regards, > Shodan It’s certainly not the definition anyone’s been using in this thread… ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-pitting-du-jour/566714/373 "2013-11-18T16:30:12Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > It’s certainly not the definition anyone’s been using in this thread… Correct. The definition in this thread is pretty much the one that it usually is. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-pitting-du-jour/566714/374 "2013-11-18T17:29:51Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Maybe, but they aren’t making any sense. > > Regards, > Shodan > > PS - you racist. I take no responsibility for your lack of basic comprehension. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-pitting-du-jour/566714/375 "2013-11-18T21:51:25Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > . . . It is not, for example, racist to claim that black Americans are convicted of more crimes per capita than white ones\*. It _is_ racist to act as though any particular black person is a criminal without actual evidence. . . . It would also be racist to draw the inference that there is something in the intrinsic nature of black people that makes them more likely to commit crimes. It is not racist to say that sociological conditions – segregation, discrimination, poverty, racism itself – contribute to criminality and that more American blacks live in these conditions than white people do. It’s deadly tricky, though. A schoolteacher in Los Angeles observed that when a child is disruptive in a classroom, it is far more likely that the child is black than any other ethnic group. Is this a racist thing to say…if it happens to be true? Should it be said? If it is a real problem, should it be diagnosed before an attempt at treatment is made? One side says it’s racist to make the observation, and the other side says it’s “political correctness gone amok” not to make the observation. (I vote against making the observation because it tends to be used as a political lever by people who support changes in the school systems that would not actually improve conditions!) ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-pitting-du-jour/566714/376 "2013-11-18T22:16:43Z")
I would say that if the observation is not made, nothing can be done to solve the issue. That’s obviously simplistic, and there are obviously times when it should not be made at that point, but pretending that these issues don’t exist won’t make them go away, and accusing those who observe them of racism won’t help anything. If anything it will make it worse. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-pitting-du-jour/566714/377 "2013-11-18T22:35:53Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > (I vote against making the observation because it tends to be used as a political lever by people who support changes in the school systems that would not actually improve conditions!) You are saying outright that scientifically established observations should be hidden because they might be misused. How very sad. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-pitting-du-jour/566714/378 "2013-11-18T22:48:51Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > You are saying outright that scientifically established observations should be hidden because they might be misused. > > How very sad. Plus you wind up looking more than a little silly as you say repeatedly “Elephant? What elephant?” Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-pitting-du-jour/566714/379 "2013-11-18T23:35:12Z")
Any chance at all of moving the topic of Der Trihs’ view on what is and is not racism to another thread? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-pitting-du-jour/566714/380 "2013-11-18T23:46:41Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > You are saying outright that scientifically established observations should be hidden because they might be misused. . . . “The kids causing trouble in classrooms tend to be black” is not a “scientifically established observation.” And, thank you for proving my point by misusing my observation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-pitting-du-jour/566714.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-pitting-du-jour/566714.md?page=20)