# Der Trihs **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 3, 2009, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150 "2009-11-03T08:22:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/221 "2009-11-05T13:42:19Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > And \*\*Der Trihs \*\*you are exaggerating wildly. No, I’m not. Atheists are one of America’s least trusted minorities according to surveys. According to surveys, most people don’t think we should be elected to anything, don’t think their children should marry us, and regard us as immoral. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/222 "2009-11-05T13:49:21Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > It’s a hell of a leap from this to “If you are a known atheist, you will be hated by most of the population.” > > There are any number of people I don’t hate but wouldn’t vote for. Try again. Not really. Is there any number of people you wouldn’t vote for _because_ of their religion, or lack thereof? Because there are a lot of people who think the most important thing a politician can do is love Jesus. If you thought the “Obama is a Muslim!!!” hysteria was bad\*, wait 'til you see an open atheist try to run. \*Thank you Colin Powell for going on MtP and saying even if he were a Muslim, so what, you goddamned bigots? So many people spent the time debunking the scary Muslim myth, and not enough people asked the bigger question, “And what if he is?” Fucking Puritans. ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/223 "2009-11-05T13:54:11Z")
All religions are authoritarian in nature and differ only among themselves as to the _real_ nature of Authority. They share a natural enmity and so are easily co-opted into the service of those who arm, stir up and profit by any dissension no matter who wins. We can thank Christianity for our notion of “just” war which is used to justify corporate plunder around the world and for fueling a good many of our culture wars here at home. Ugh. IMO, religion lost any moral authority it may have had when locks went on the alms boxes. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/224 "2009-11-05T13:57:39Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > No, I’m not. Atheists are one of America’s least trusted minorities according to surveys. According to surveys, most people don’t think we should be elected to anything, don’t think their children should marry us, and regard us as immoral. But they _love_ you. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/225 "2009-11-05T14:45:43Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > But they _love_ you. :dubious: I can feel that love whenever religious conflict breaks out-whatever disagreements the two sides may have, they are at least unified in their belief that atheists are the bad guys. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/226 "2009-11-05T14:50:37Z")
Here’s another question for y’all: Of all the religions out there that would like to have the laws reflect their beliefs, which would be tolerant of atheists if they were actually in control? Any answer along the lines of “My religion would tolerate you, but we are not trying to interfere with the legal process” is, of course, disqualified. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/227 "2009-11-05T15:03:27Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > It’s a hell of a leap from this to “If you are a known atheist, you will be hated by most of the population.” > > There are any number of people I don’t hate but wouldn’t vote for. Try again. Would you like a match for that leaping straw-man? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/228 "2009-11-05T15:23:43Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > As for all you meek and mild Christians - until you seize control back from the loonies, until you stop holding your nose and vote Republican you can he sure you’re going to get tarred with a broad brush. Because all liberal Christians vote Republican. Yeah, that’s the ticket. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/229 "2009-11-05T16:22:40Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Because all liberal Christians vote Republican. Yeah, that’s the ticket. :rolleyes: Stuff your friggin roll-eyes where the sun don’t shine. Yeah, that’s the ticket Then point to where I defined ‘meek and mild’ as liberal. Oh wait - I didn’t. Or are you saying that all Christians who vote republican are whacked out loons? In which case the problem is even worse than I thought. ---
**Author:** ![Walker\_in\_Eternity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/46a35a/32.png) [@Walker\_in\_Eternity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walker_in_Eternity)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/230 "2009-11-05T16:33:15Z")
> [@Michael\_Ellis](#): > > I don’t even get what you’re trying to say here. Do you really have such a stick up your ass about these common terms because you don’t agree with them? > > I especially love the fact that Mohammed shouldn’t be called a prophet, despite founding Islam. It’s an accurate description of the man no matter if you believe in God or not. Or are you just annoyed that it’s a religious title. In which case I hope you also complain about the term Jesus Christ. Christ is a descriptive, not a surname. I hope you refer to him as Yeshua bar-Joseph, which is his secular name. What about John the Baptist? I try to avoid all religious terms if possible, but without taking it to the realm of anal retentiveness. [Prophet](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophet) implies contact with some kind of supernatural force, not founding a religion, therefore I object to the term on the grounds that I deny the existence of any supernatural force. Using the term implies a tacit agreement with the existence of the supernatural, which I don’t think a supposedly impartial news service should be doing. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/231 "2009-11-05T17:20:02Z")
[QUOTE=OED] prophet • noun (fem. prophetess) 1 an inspired teacher or proclaimer of the will of God. 2 a person who predicts the future. 3 _a person who advocates a new belief or theory_. — PHRASES a prophet is not without honour save in his own country proverb a person’s gifts and talents are rarely appreciated by those close to him. with biblical allusion to the Gospel of Matthew, chapter 13. [/QUOTE] My italics. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/232 "2009-11-05T18:11:57Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > My italics. That doesn’t work so well in quotes, I’m afraid. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/233 "2009-11-05T18:22:58Z")
Er… so it doesn’t. :smack: Shame on me for not previewing. Oh well - I meant to highlight this bit: > [@](#): > > 3 a person who advocates a new belief or theory. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/234 "2009-11-05T18:56:56Z")
I have to say, I’m unaccustomed to seeing that use of the word “prophet,” except possibly in a mildly facetious sense. E.g., “Dr. Robert Atkins, the prophet of the low-carbohydrate diet.” I suspect that the vast majority of those that would ascribe the title “prophet” to Muhammad intend definition 1, and would be rather irked at any other interpretation. I have no personal qualms about using “prophet,” because for me the term is synonymous with “charlatan” no matter whom it’s applied to. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/235 "2009-11-05T19:56:24Z")
Religion per se isn’t the problem. Black-and-white thinking, dividing people into good and bad with broad-brush generalizations based on extremes and ignoring actual evidence in favour of fixed dogma - that’s the problem. Many (but certainly not all) religious people display that sort of thinking. As this thread so amply demonstrates, it isn’t a problem _confined_ to religious people, unfortunately. ---
**Author:** ![Cumberdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@Cumberdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cumberdale)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/236 "2009-11-05T19:59:32Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > I have to say, I’m unaccustomed to seeing that use of the word “prophet,” except possibly in a mildly facetious sense. E.g., “Dr. Robert Atkins, the prophet of the low-carbohydrate diet.” I suspect that the vast majority of those that would ascribe the title “prophet” to Muhammad intend definition 1, and would be rather irked at any other interpretation. > > I have no personal qualms about using “prophet,” because for me the term is synonymous with “charlatan” no matter whom it’s applied to. Similarly, I don’t use the term ‘father’ for Catholic clergy. I have a father and no one else should expect me to refer to them like that. I also don’t use the term reverend. If I recall, it is an honorary title or a term of respect not an official title like Doctor. Since I don’t honor or respect their claims, I don’t use the term, even though I have family members who many refer to with that word. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/237 "2009-11-05T20:09:52Z")
> [@Cumberdale](#): > > Similarly, I don’t use the term ‘father’ for Catholic clergy. I have a father and no one else should expect me to refer to them like that. > > I also don’t use the term reverend. If I recall, it is an honorary title or a term of respect not an official title like Doctor. Since I don’t honor or respect their claims, I don’t use the term, even though I have family members who many refer to with that word. I’m not religious, and even if I was, I’d be Jewish by ethnicity: but this just strikes me as pointlessly rude. If someone is commonly referred to by a particular title, to not use it does not appear as a principled blow for freedom of thought, but as a personal insult, unless you are given a chance to explain your reasons. One can honour and respect the _person_ even if one does not honour and respect the _claims_ - unless they personally give you cause not to, of course. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/238 "2009-11-05T20:24:51Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > One can honour and respect the _person_ even if one does not honour and respect the _claims_ - unless they personally give you cause not to, of course. I disagree. _People_ do not naturally come with titles, _positions_ do. When the position is one that’s earned honestly, that’s OK. “Dr”, “Prof.”, even “Your Honour” When it’s the result of a system of combined fraud, delusion and stupidity, not so much. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/239 "2009-11-05T20:41:20Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > I’m curious what those who admire **DT** think about his oft-spoken views on American troops in Iraq and conservatives/Republicans in general. Do you agree with those as well, for the same reasons as you do on religion? The issue I disagreed with\*\* DT\*\* most was when he stated he hoped the U.S soldiers got killed in Iraq. HOWEVER, he was absolutely correct in supporting the Iraqi efforts to repulse the foreign invaders (which were in large part, US soldiers and Marines.) Wishing death on them went too far, IMO, but supporting the desire to remove foreign invaders from a sovereign nation, in that instance, was correct. The hard part is seeing how they could be repulsed without being killed. My nephew, a Marine, was there. Had he been killed by a roadside bomb I would have been very angry and very sad. But I would have understood why he was killed. He and the rest of the invading force were in a place they had no right to be. They had weapons and were killing Iraqis. OF COURSE there were going to be people trying to kill him and all the rest of the U.S. forces. The same as we would if someone were to invade us. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/240 "2009-11-05T20:43:09Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I disagree. _People_ do not naturally come with titles, _positions_ do. When the position is one that’s earned honestly, that’s OK. “Dr”, “Prof.”, even “Your Honour” When it’s the result of a system of combined fraud, delusion and stupidity, not so much. Naturally enough, I don’t agree. I’m no Catholic, and I don’t at all believe in the dogma of Catholicism, but if I was introduced to a priest I’d not tell him ‘I think your position is the result of a system of fraud, delusion, and stupidity, so I won’t do you the courtesy of addressing you by your traditional epithet’. That strikes me as intolerably rude and confrontational. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150.md?page=13)