# Der Trihs **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 3, 2009, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150 "2009-11-03T08:22:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/421 "2009-11-10T00:39:10Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > Extraordinary claims…you mean like the equal dignity of all humans? I’m sure there’s a formula or gene or molecule or peer-reviewed article…or maybe Randi or Penn & Teller proved it. You should really read [this link.](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/disingenuous) ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/422 "2009-11-10T00:45:55Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > You should really read [this link.](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/disingenuous) Looks like you didn’t, but I’ll give you a B- for effort ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/423 "2009-11-10T00:59:56Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Don’t distort what I’m saying. The people I’m talking about don’t hate me because of anything I’ve said or done. They don’t even know I’m alive. It \*\*\*doesn’t matter \*\*\*if I’m an “asshole” or not; they don’t know or care. They care that I’m an atheist, and they hate me for that reason alone. And all other atheists, _ **regardless** _ of how we behave. Who is “they?” Besides, why are you living down to everyone’s expectations? Sounds like you’re only proving “their” point. But the problem with you is, you don’t just attack the extremists. You seem to go after anyone who might believe differently from you. Note I said _seem to_. If people are getting the wrong impression of you, maybe YOU are the problem, not them. As for Falwell, and Coulter, I stand by it. You’re an extremist who paints your so-called “opponents” as hateful individuals who want to enslave women, or institutionalize gays or what have you. Instead of acknowledging that not everyone who is religious, or a Republican, or leans to the right feels that way. There are plenty of people here, right on that board, who prove that. And finally, I don’t think this thread was supposed to be ABOUT whether or not religious beliefs are truth. It’s supposed to be about your BEHAVIOR. But of course, it’s okay to be a dick, if you’re right, eh? ---
**Author:** ![LurkMeister](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@LurkMeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkMeister)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/424 "2009-11-10T01:49:20Z")
You’re missing the point, **Guinastasia**. Everyone who believes in religion is a deluded fool who loathes all atheists with the heat of a thousand burning suns, and their sole purpose in life is to deny all atheists the right to not believe in God. Nobody who believes in God has any tolerance for people who don’t believe in God. How do we know this? Because **Der Trihs** has told us so. ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/425 "2009-11-10T02:17:10Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > Extraordinary claims…you mean like the equal dignity of all humans? 😕 Is it your assertion that generally religions (even if we limit this to modern and mainstream) enshrine equal dignity as a tenet of faith? Most regions have a pretty clear divide between the “us” true believers, and the “them” everyone else… and a fair few additionally have a “damned” category… this seems a strange claim (if I’ve understood you correctly). > [@](#): > > I’m sure there’s a formula or gene or molecule or peer-reviewed article…or maybe Randi or Penn & Teller proved it. Snark aside, a form of the so-called Golden rule does appear to be borne out by game theory, with co-operation forming a wining strategy for both individuals and a society. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/426 "2009-11-10T02:46:05Z")
Fun stuff. Start at the beginning, I guess: > [@Czarcasm](#): > > We ask. I would use the word “demand”, but for these purposes “ask” will suffice. > [@](#): > > You redefine the word “evidence” to include feelings and supposition. No, I do not. > [@](#): > > You provide “experts”. Experts at what? Or for what purpose. What do I need to provide an expert _for_? > [@](#): > > You provide “experts” that reference the previous “experts”. I do? Can you give some example? A hypothetical will do if you can’t be bothered to search. (An understandable thing to dread.) > [@](#): > > You provide “experts” that contradict previous “experts”. Are you sure you don’t have me confused with someone else? > [@](#): > > You add up all the “experts”, the “experts” that agree with those first “experts”, and the “experts” that contradict those “experts” and think that all those “experts” together means that there _must_ be something there to be an “expert” about. Are you talking about people like Daniel Dennett and Eugenie Scott? I did indeed mention them in particular, and they are each experts in their fields (cognitive science and evolutionary biology respectively) — but why would that bother you? They’re on _your_ side. > [@](#): > > You give us suppositions as fact(God lives “outside the universe”, God is a totally non-material being, God is an emotion, and others too numerous and vague to count) then build from these suppositions. I’ve certainly never said that God is an emotion. I’ve said that He is eternal, necessary, and essential (in other words, _real_.) I’ve said that I am convinced of His existence based on my own life experience. I’ve also said that I respect your life experience as well, and that I understand why you don’t believe in Him — a show of respect that you routinely discard or ignore. If you’re talking about love, love has many definitions. In fact, in Koine it has a few different words, intended to convey those different meanings. When I’ve said God is love, I haven’t said He is an emotion. I’ve said that He is agape — not philos or eros. Agape is not an emotion; it is a way. It is charity. In fact, until recent times, it was translated as “charity”. But these days, it’s called “love”. Language evolves that way. Agape, though, is not the kind of love you feel for your mate (eros) or for your brother (philos). It’s the kind of love that causes you to make a decision — specifically, whether you will be charitable; that is, whether you will edify the person with whom you have contact. > [@](#): > > You give us nothing that would be acceptable as evidence in any sort of real scientific query. Well… yeah. I mean, the joke’s on you, then. Why are you going about a scientific inquiry into something that is metaphysical? “In science, explanations are limited to those based on observations and experiments that can be substantiated by other scientists. **Explanations that cannot be based on empirical evidence are not a part of science.** ” National Academy of Sciences, _Science and Creationism: A View from the National Academy of Sciences_, Second Edition, National Academy of Sciences Steering Committee on Science and Creationism, 1999 (Emphasis mine.) > [@](#): > > We ask for more. > You give us the same. > We reject the silliness that has gone on, and yet we keep asking for evidence, and we keep the door open. Why? And what door? There is no door into my life for you to enter. I don’t know why you would have any more concern for my God than you have for my life. Feel free to close whatever door it is you’ve opened. It doesn’t lead to where I am. > [@Containing\_Iron](#): > > okay… > I can’t prove to you what I dreamed about last night. So you can dismiss my dreams as made-up stuff out of hand… > Just don’t be surprised if I do that to your god… Not surprised at all. As I said, in your shoes I would feel the same way. > [@](#): > > As for the respect… it seems to me that Der Trihs is under the impression that the people who believe a certain way treat him like shit, and adjusts his respect accordingly. This is a self-fulfilling prophecy if I ever saw one, but it is treating people like he himself is being treated.\* … \*this could also be me talking out of my ass… If I was a betting man, I would put money on this even… I think you’re right. Spot on. > [@](#): > > I myself usually treat people with as much respect as I would like to get, but here in the Netherlands religion is not such a hot topic as with you guys\*\* so YMMV … \*\*sadly, this is changing for the worse Like I said, I respect or disrespect people based not on what they believe or don’t believe, but on how they treat me. You and I are not so much unalike. > [@](#): > > but personally I didn’t try to engage you on the manner of respect… I just liked that you equated believing in god to dreaming… just as Der Trihs does Actually, Der Trihs does not equate belief in God with dreaming. He equates belief in God with _delusion_. That’s what he has called me: “delusional”. A dream is a real experience: you really had a dream. You are not making up that you had a dream. You are not hallucinating that you had a dream. You are not under some delusion that you had a dream. You actually, really had a dream. You just can’t prove what it was. > [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > You got precisely the answer the question deserved - so what if my “dream state” is not a “real” state? I’m not using the assumption that it is to influence law or science or anyone else’s life. If all religious persons felt the same way; what is not provably real should be kept separate from what is, we’d be better off. I completely agree. If we would stop treating what underlies our world — atoms and particles — as though they were real, and the universe as though it were anything other than a probability distribution, we would all be better off. “There is no quantum world. There is only an abstract quantum mechanical description.” Niels Bohr “The atoms or the elementary particles are not real; they form a world of potentialities and possibilities rather than one of things or facts.” Werner Heisenberg > [@](#): > > Well, you’re free to feel as smug as you like by the fact that I don’t consider Dennet particularly important, but that doesn’t magically make your God real. I didn’t need Dennet to know your argument was empty before; I don’t need him now. Not smug. Just surprised. He is far and away the most important atheist thinker of the modern age. Sartre is so yesterday. I just think that if you would study Dennett, your arguments would improve. Not to be smug, but dismissal is not an argument. > [@athelas](#): > > It is not a particularly new observation that a lot of religious activity (churchgoing and associated activities) fulfills functions other than religion, such as socializing and status positioning. No reason to believe that atheism is any different - it can function a signal of self-superiority, and, for some people, the louder the signal the better. Plus, I’m sure it’s irrationally fun to organize coalitions and wave your club at that other tribe of monkeys across the river. Astute. You’re basically talking about politics. It infests every discipline, not just government. There is politics in business. In science. In the arts. And yes, in religion. Atheism, too. That’s what [American Atheists](http://www.atheists.org/) is all about. > [@Apollyon](#): > > I don’t think I said that we should encourage ignorance. > > I think we’re actually agreeing here – real world example: my father-in-law is a retired Methodist minister. If I was to state to him that his beliefs are without objective proof he’d agree with me… but they are still his beliefs. > > If he were claiming that laws should be made based on these subjective-only beliefs then we’d have something to argue about. His extraordinary claims would then certainly require extraordinary proof, but I can hardly argue that his beliefs aren’t _his_ beliefs. (i.e. that they are subjectively real to him). > > As it is, and as a single example, he (and other Ministers of similar mind) wrote in years past in \*\*support \*\*of homosexual law reform in NZ because that was about rights being extended to real human people, and he felt that extending those rights was the morally correct thing to do. I can speak only for myself, but I like your father-in-law’s take on things. To serve Christ means to love others as you would love yourself. That means homosexuals, ordinary Joes, and atheists. > [@SandyHook](#): > > I rarely drop by The Pit so I just saw this today. > > I just want to say that I do disagree with his statement that, “Religion deserves to be hated.” Mocked, yes, and as often as possible - hated, no. To mock the belief is to mock the person. If you believe I should be mocked, then how will we ever be reconciled? Is it to be the case that the theist and the atheist should mock one another and never get along? Why not just drop the mocking and be friends? > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Don’t distort what I’m saying. The people I’m talking about don’t hate me because of anything I’ve said or done. They don’t even know I’m alive. It \*\*\*doesn’t matter \*\*\*if I’m an “asshole” or not; they don’t know or care. They care that I’m an atheist, and they hate me for that reason alone. And all other atheists, _ **regardless** _ of how we behave. Um… If they don’t know you’re alive, how can they hate you? It’s like I’ve said before. After many years of dealing with you, I’ve concluded that you’re a theist who hates God. You carry some kind of grudge, and you project your hatred of Him onto those who follow Him. I think you believe in God, and that you’re angry with Him. In many respects, you’re like the classical Christian devil. > [@Guinastasia to Der Trihs](#): > > And finally, I don’t think this thread was supposed to be ABOUT whether or not religious beliefs are truth. It’s supposed to be about your BEHAVIOR. That’s what always happens in these Der Trihs threads. He is righteously slammed for being an asshole, and unthinking people who are like-minded defend him just as athelas described. They gather 'round him and screech at the monkeys on the other side of the river. It’s no big deal. It’s just the nature of the thing. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/427 "2009-11-10T03:29:28Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > It’s like I’ve said before. After many years of dealing with you, I’ve concluded that you’re a theist who hates God. You carry some kind of grudge, and you project your hatred of Him onto those who follow Him. I think you believe in God, and that you’re angry with Him. In many respects, you’re like the classical Christian devil. Not to speak for **Liberal** here, but just to head it off at the pass, I’m pretty sure he’s talking solely about **Der Trihs** here, not atheists in general. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/428 "2009-11-10T03:34:37Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > I completely agree. If we would stop treating what underlies our world — atoms and particles — as though they were real, and the universe as though it were anything other than a probability distribution, we would all be better off. Let us know when a church builds a nuclear reactor through prayer alone. Let us know, in fact, when _any_ religion through its beliefs and rituals discovers or demonstrates something science could not. Until then, your equivocations are unimpressive. > [@](#): > > Not smug. Just surprised. He is far and away the most important atheist thinker of the modern age. Sartre is so yesterday. I just think that if you would study Dennett, your arguments would improve. Not to be smug, but dismissal is not an argument. It’s perfectly adequate in the face of something that has not a shred of supporting evidence (or at least none so far). You are rather presumptuously assuming that you’ve presented an argument (with evidence) that I must counter (with evidence). I do not choose to give you such a free ride. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/429 "2009-11-10T03:45:33Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > It’s like I’ve said before. After many years of dealing with you, I’ve concluded that you’re a theist who hates God. You carry some kind of grudge, and you project your hatred of Him onto those who follow Him. I think you believe in God, and that you’re angry with Him. In many respects, you’re like the classical Christian devil. **Lib** , with all due respect, I think this is bullshit. One can be an asshole towards religious people without being someone who has a “grudge against god.” Besides, as it’s been pointed out, those aren’t his ONLY targets. Although I do occassionally wonder how his parents brought him up to believe (for example, were they religious, and if so, what kind?), but mostly out of curiosity. I don’t think he’s bitter – just a jackass. I simply think that **Der Trihs** sees everything in black and white. There are no shades of grey in his universe. None whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/430 "2009-11-10T03:55:11Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Actually, Der Trihs does not equate belief in God with dreaming. He equates belief in God with _delusion_. That’s what he has called me: “delusional”. A dream is a real experience: you really had a dream. You are not making up that you had a dream. You are not hallucinating that you had a dream. You are not under some delusion that you had a dream. You actually, really had a dream. You just can’t prove what it was. And people really do have delusions too; they just think they are real. > [@Liberal](#): > > I completely agree. If we would stop treating what underlies our world — atoms and particles — as though they were real, and the universe as though it were anything other than a probability distribution, we would all be better off. > > “There is no quantum world. There is only an abstract quantum mechanical description.” Niels Bohr > > “The atoms or the elementary particles are not real; they form a world of potentialities and possibilities rather than one of things or facts.” Werner Heisenberg Long discredited claims. Scientists these days can move individual atoms and electrons about, form them into words; or capture them and give them pet names. > [@Liberal](#): > > Um… If they don’t know you’re alive, how can they hate you? Because they hate all atheists, obviously. > [@Liberal](#): > > It’s like I’ve said before. After many years of dealing with you, I’ve concluded that you’re a theist who hates God. Ah, the old “you aren’t _ **really** _ an atheist” line. Another favorite of the theists, who just can’t stand the idea that anyone really disagrees with them. And, an example of how I give my opponents more respect than they do me; I really do believe that you believe in God. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/431 "2009-11-10T04:09:10Z")
> [@Apollyon](#): > > 😕 Is it your assertion that generally religions (even if we limit this to modern and mainstream) enshrine equal dignity as a tenet of faith? > > Most regions have a pretty clear divide between the “us” true believers, and the “them” everyone else… and a fair few additionally have a “damned” category… this seems a strange claim (if I’ve understood you correctly). > > Snark aside, a form of the so-called Golden rule does appear to be borne out by game theory, with co-operation forming a wining strategy for both individuals and a society. You didn’t. Most atheists will accept the equal dignity of humans, that’s what I was refering to. “a form” and “appears” are not God-killing words. It may well be a winning strategy, but it is not a mathematical formula. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/432 "2009-11-10T04:11:49Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Because they hate all atheists, obviously. Who is “they”? ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/433 "2009-11-10T04:19:50Z")
Who are they? One would assume that atheists don’t hate atheists, so who would that leave? The non-atheists? These would be the people who would rather vote any other people of faith rather than atheists: [Gallup Polls & Other Surveys on American Attitudes Towards Atheists](http://atheism.about.com/od/atheistbigotryprejudice/a/AtheistSurveys.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/434 "2009-11-10T05:01:23Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > I simply think that **Der Trihs** sees everything in black and white. There are no shades of grey in his universe. None whatsoever. How much “grey” does religion deserve? ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/435 "2009-11-10T05:04:58Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > How much “grey” does religion deserve? How much “grey” does politics deserve? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/436 "2009-11-10T05:06:31Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > How much “grey” does religion deserve? Exactly. Religion isn’t something that can reasonably be taken seriously. It’s _ **ridiculous.** _ Not to mention dangerous. I hold in fear and contempt religion and the religious for the same reason I’d hold in fear and contempt someone who wanted to write public policy according to the dictates of the invisible goblin on his shoulder. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/437 "2009-11-10T05:08:15Z")
> [@Lord\_Ashtar](#): > > How much “grey” does politics deserve? Politics…has the realistic possibility of being right, or at least sane. Political ideals and initiatives can be based on reality and can actually work. Unlike religion. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/438 "2009-11-10T05:10:48Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Politics…has the realistic possibility of being right, or at least sane. Political ideals and initiatives can be based on reality and can actually work. Unless you’re a Republican. Then you’re just evil. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/439 "2009-11-10T05:23:57Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Exactly. Religion isn’t something that can reasonably be taken seriously. It’s _ **ridiculous.** _ Not to mention dangerous. I hold in fear and contempt religion and the religious for the same reason I’d hold in fear and contempt someone who wanted to write public policy according to the dictates of the invisible goblin on his shoulder. Likewise, I cannot possibly take YOU seriously. YOU are ridiculous most of the time. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/440 "2009-11-10T05:46:49Z")
> [@Lord\_Ashtar](#): > > How much “grey” does politics deserve? Politics represents compromises between citizens with varying demands for tangible goods and services. If politics was as void of content as religion, then laws would be about making pi equal to three or other pointless gestures. Meantime, take any religion, change all its core beliefs and what exactly have you accomplished but substituted one arbitrary fiction for another? Try such a radical flip with politics and suddenly banks crash (or rather, more of them do), roads don’t get repaired, police can enter anyone’s house and the army seizes power for itself, i.e. tangible, visible effects. But it’s adorable that you thought you were making a point. Just precious. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150.md?page=21) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150.md?page=23)