# Der Trihs **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 3, 2009, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150 "2009-11-03T08:22:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![tacoloco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tacoloco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tacoloco)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/81 "2009-11-03T18:23:02Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Just because **DT** chooses to talk about the things he’s angry about (or hates, in his words) here doesn’t mean he’s necessarily always like that. I know people like DT, so it’s not a stretch to think perhaps DT is just an angry person. But, you are correct. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/82 "2009-11-03T18:25:39Z")
I gave up on taking **Der Trihs** seriously a long time ago. Face it: he’s the Jerry Falwell of atheism and the Ann Coulter of the left. Dude has no problem with generalizations and ridiculous accusations and strawmen. He makes me embarassed to be a liberal at times. **Der Trihs** , you’re basically becoming what you hate. I only REALLY started to become pissed off by him was back when he said that he hoped every single soldier in the Mid-East would be killed. As someone with family and friends there, that pissed the HELL out of me. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/83 "2009-11-03T18:29:50Z")
It just goes to show you, self-righteousness is a drug. People LOVE that feeling of justified hatred. I’m a stone atheist. But when I look around at all the people I know, I surely don’t see a strong correlation between being an asshole, and being religious. I know plenty of assholes, and plenty of pretty nice people, and the assholes don’t seem to be any more religious than the nice people. And so therefore, I reject the notion that religion turns people into assholes. It’s simply a false belief. And therefore, hating religion and the religious is simply ridiculous. If I wanted to improve the world, railing against religion would be the last thing I’d do. The fact that religion is all made-up nonsense (which it is) is irrelevant. You aren’t going to change people’s minds by accusing them of believing made-up nonsense. So how do you change things? Well, other ways. You don’t undermine religion by attacking religion, you undermine religion by making religion irrelevant. People don’t give up religion because you convince them religion is factually wrong, people give up religion when their social and emotional needs are no longer met by religion. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/84 "2009-11-03T18:30:35Z")
> [@tacoloco](#): > > I know people like DT, so it’s not a stretch to think perhaps DT is just an angry person. But, you are correct. Right, hence the necessarily. I don’t know the guy; for all I know he _could_ always be that way. But I’ve seen him in Cafe Society discussing books and things like anyone else. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/85 "2009-11-03T19:15:23Z")
I’ll tell you what religious people have done to every other American – they’ve increased our taxes. Huge swaths of property and income are tax exempt because of the tax breaks given to religious organizations, and the rest of us make up the shortfall. As a friend of mine once said, “Stomping on religion was the only good thing the Soviet Union ever did.” ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/86 "2009-11-03T19:16:46Z")
I don’t mind **DT** , he’s at least quite consistent in what he believes, which is better than that which I can say or do. And since he doesn’t have a desire to act on his anger or such, I’m fine with him hating. It’s not my choice or lifestyle, but I have no desire to go out there and change his ways or beliefs just because I don’t agree with them. I also find that if I were to think about it, I’d probably agree more with his side of matters than those standing against him. :Shrug: I’ve always tended to have more atheist and agnostic friends than religious ones it seemed. But as long as they meant me no ill will personally, and understood that I meant them none as well, we would always get along just fine. I see DT actually falling into that **category** , and I think if we talked, we’d get along just find. I think he might find me delusional, and not support my stance by condoning me he might give the message of encouraging others to be religious, but I don’t think he’d actually HATE me. Then again, he might. I could be completely wrong in my reading of him. I don’t actually think he’s a rage-driven human being. I think he’s just frustrated, but he’s a reasonable man, who like many others, are sick of feeling pushed around and marginalized because of their beliefs- so he pushes back. I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. The mans got his beliefs and sticks to 'em. I’m not a fan of radicalism, but everyone can’t really be in the middle, and it’s nice to be able to see and here from the end goals. I’d have a Soda with the man and listen to his ideas myself. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/87 "2009-11-03T19:20:34Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > What if jesus actually DID say that gay people suck? Would she still be a christian? Only if Jesus says they swallow as well. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/88 "2009-11-03T19:21:27Z")
> [@A Monkey With a Gun](#): > > Apropos of **Der Trihs** ’s name, if a wandering mod comes by, can you change the thread title to spell his name correctly? Done. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/89 "2009-11-03T20:32:22Z")
> [@Stan\_Shmenge](#): > > Der Trihs, I am an atheist, and I am well aware of all the evil that can be laid at the doorstep of religion, but I can also see the good that it can do. My girlfriend, who my love for is probably beyond your ability to conceive, is religious, and I wouldn’t have it any other way. Her religion gives her something you and I can never have, and I wonder if you aren’t just a little jealous. Could that be driving your hate? :rolleyes: No. I find religion disgusting. I find the idea of being religious no more attractive than the thought of having a compulsion to eat rotting garbage. > [@Stan\_Shmenge](#): > > I myself read the Bible on occasion. Whatever it’s inspiration, the authors knew as much about human nature and foibles as any modern theoretician of the mind. The precepts outlined in the ten commandments are a prescription for a happy life. Don’t steal, don’t kill, don’t mess with your neighbor’s wife, don’t envy, don’t lie, respect your family, take a day off once in a while. You have a problem with any of that? As if that was exclusive to, or even had much to do with religion. Nor is it especially admirable in context; “don’t kill” meaning “don’t kill your fellow believers, but do kill those heathens over the hill”. Honor thy parents meaning “Obey your parents, no matter how badly they abuse you”. And so on. > [@Stan\_Shmenge](#): > > Religion in and of itself isn’t evil, it is the people who get carried away with it, and in those cases they are doing it wrong, taking it in the wrong direction. Nonsense. Religion is in itself evil, the way that sexism or racism or fascism is in itself evil. And it’s the ones who try to do good in its name who are perverting it, which is one reason why they tend to be bad at it. > [@Stan\_Shmenge](#): > > We get it. Religion has done some bad things. It has also done some very good things for people as well. You can use a saw to build a wonderful house, or cut off someone’s arm. Don’t blame the tool. Tools are passive things; they make no demands, they make no judgements. Religion does. Religion is not a tool; it is something that makes people into tools. > [@Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](#): > > He’s said time and time again that he would never actually ACT on his beliefs, because he is afraid of what the nutjobs might do to him. And because I have actual moral reservations about attacking people and burning down buildings. And I do “act on my beliefs” just by arguing against religion in such an overwhelmingly religious culture. > [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Now you’re just being stupid, if you think that all people who believe in a religion vote the same way. “All”? No. Many? Yes. When their preacher tells them to vote for Bush because Democrats are evil devil worshipers, that has an effect. > [@Guinastasia](#): > > I gave up on taking **Der Trihs** seriously a long time ago. Face it: he’s the Jerry Falwell of atheism and the Ann Coulter of the left. Dude has no problem with generalizations and ridiculous accusations and strawmen. He makes me embarassed to be a liberal at times. > > **Der Trihs** , you’re basically becoming what you hate. Hardly. I suggest you actually read them before accusing me of being like them. [QUOTE=Ann Coulter] “We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity.” “My only regret with Timothy McVeigh is he did not go to the New York Times Building.” “I have to say I’m all for public flogging.” “God gave us the earth. We have dominion over the plants, the animals, the trees. God said, 'Earth is yours. Take it. Rape it. It’s yours.” [/QUOTE] > [@Guinastasia](#): > > I only REALLY started to become pissed off by him was back when he said that he hoped every single soldier in the Mid-East would be killed. As someone with family and friends there, that pissed the HELL out of me. Well, too bad. Wishing for the destruction of an invading army isn’t an extreme or evil viewpoint, and the fact that you happen to know some of the conquerors or that they are waving an American flag over their victims doesn’t make their cause just or their actions any less evil. Would you condemn me if I wished for the destruction of an army invading America? ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/90 "2009-11-03T20:40:52Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > Life isn’t “sacred”, Stan! It has only as much meaning as we and those we know attach to it. Accepting that death is likely to be the end of existence, and that if you fuck up this life you won’t get another crack at the whip, is likely to be far more beneficial than folling the edicts of any holy book. Actually, some of the edicts like “don’t kill, steal, cheat on your spouse and listen to your parents” as well as avoiding most of the seven deadly sins like “Gluttony”, “Sloth”, “Wrath”, “Envy”, “Pride” and so on can actually help you live a much healthier and happier life. I’m not particularly religeous, but it’s my understanding that most religeons typically preach “don’t go around being a fat, sloppy, greedy asshole and we’ll all be better off”. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/91 "2009-11-03T20:55:04Z")
> [@A Monkey With a Gun](#): > > Please, just show some tolerance of how other human beings view the world. Drop the hate. You’ll live longer. Oh, _fuck_ your disingenuous attempt at offering advice. Trihs is fine the way he is and organized religion deserves far more scorn than he can ever heap upon it. if the religious types on this board can’t handle it, I cordially invite them to go pound salt. Trihs is entertaining, which already puts him miles above the sanctimonious braindead dips who’ve joined recently like Curtis Lemay and Alx and ivan, who (assuming they’re not deliberately trolling) are arguing that mankind is too smart and it’s only proper that we become stupider so they’ll feel less out-of-place. You’ll have to establish that Trihs is taking hostile _action_ against religion, because you complaining about just his _words_ relegates your entire preachy argument to the Realm of the Big Sacks of Bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/92 "2009-11-03T22:08:45Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Actually, some of the edicts like “don’t kill, steal, cheat on your spouse and listen to your parents” as well as avoiding most of the seven deadly sins like “Gluttony”, “Sloth”, “Wrath”, “Envy”, “Pride” and so on can actually help you live a much healthier and happier life. > > I’m not particularly religeous, but it’s my understanding that most religeons typically preach “don’t go around being a fat, sloppy, greedy asshole and we’ll all be better off”. All those “don’ts” were around long before religion. Not only did I figure it out without the help of religion, but most of the people I know who are slothful gluttons are also religious. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/93 "2009-11-03T22:36:56Z")
> [@Stan Schmenge](#): > > …take a day off once in a while. I don’t remember where Judeo-Christianity urges you to relax on Sunday, put your feet up and watch football. I had the idea that instead of putting food on the table or taking a break from work you were supposed to do some devotional heavy lifting. I don’t get the impression that **Der Trihs** is seething with hate 100% of the time against religion (not that that would be such a bad thing). He also expresses contempt for pseudoscience and quackery, which is appreciated. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/94 "2009-11-04T00:25:27Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > I don’t remember where Judeo-Christianity urges you to relax on Sunday, put your feet up and watch football. I had the idea that instead of putting food on the table or taking a break from work you were supposed to do some devotional heavy lifting. Or practice your archery, oddly enough. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/95 "2009-11-04T00:40:26Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > “All”? No. Many? Yes. When their preacher tells them to vote for Bush because Democrats are evil devil worshipers, that has an effect. Sure it does. But not all religious groups have preachers that tell them things like that. Most religious sermons aren’t overtly political. And some religious groups, like Unitarians and Reform Jews, for instance, are even much more liberal than the general population. You’re aiming at a fly with an elephant gun here. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/96 "2009-11-04T00:57:32Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > The utter stupidity that there is anyone who would be interested in a woman covered in dirt and sweating to the point of heat exhaustion astounds me. Not only do I expect that such people exist, I bet someone has already created a website that caters to these people. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/97 "2009-11-04T01:32:10Z")
What **Lemur866** said. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/98 "2009-11-04T01:35:53Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I’ll tell you what religious people have done to every other American – they’ve increased our taxes. Huge swaths of property and income are tax exempt because of the tax breaks given to religious organizations, and the rest of us make up the shortfall. > > As a friend of mine once said, “Stomping on religion was the only good thing the Soviet Union ever did.” LOL I suppose you oppose similar tax exemptions for all 501c3s huh? ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/99 "2009-11-04T02:11:58Z")
How would you explain **Der Trihs** the fact that the majority of the world who improved the world were religious? For instance people who fought for civil rights (Martin Luther King Jr.) or women’s rights (Susan B Anthony) were mostly religious. Your claim that religion is utterly evil is unfounded by reality. Would you really say for instance universalist Unitarian ministers who don’t try to convert you are dangerous? Also religion has many times influenced scientific advancement. For instance the Roman Catholic Church preserved a large amount of literature. Also Christianity has served scientific advanced far more than Roman paganism as the Christian view was that of a universal God in unknowable reaches of space who was portrayed the Architect of the Universe while Roman Paganism was just superstition packaged better. Finally what of the atheist tyrants who killed millions such as Stalin, Mao, or Pol Pot? I believe you are some sort of leftist possibly even a communist as you’ve stated previously that the US and the USSR were no better in the Cold War. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/100 "2009-11-04T02:18:44Z")
I honestly thought I could keep this thread from from a complete clusterfuck. I should have known better. I wanted to talk to **Der Trihs** about his hatred, which he admits. I don’t think hatred’s healthy. We were having a decent discussion on the first page before this thing became a train wreck, but now I’ve got idiots on both sides of the coin. Hell, there’s this: > [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Oh, _fuck_ your disingenuous attempt at offering advice. I told him not to hate. I was consistent with it. I still am. That’s not disingenuous, it’s what I think _everybody_ should do. I will, however, attempt to salvage a decent dialog. **Der Tris** , when I ask you why you hate the religious so much, you talk about institutions. I don’t want to talk about institutions, because it’s too easy to blame things on a “higher power” (_::chuckle::_ that’s religion in a nutshell isn’t it?), but I do want to know why you personally hate religion so much. Not history, not politics, not something that happened to somebody else, but what happened to _you_? I realize that question is a bit personal, but I think it would be very illuminating for everybody on the board if you could give us a personal story as to how you came to despise all things religious. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150.md?page=6)