# Der Trihs **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 3, 2009, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150 "2009-11-03T08:22:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/161 "2009-11-04T12:52:29Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Sucks to live in a democracy, even a Constitutional one, don’t it? > > Regards, > Shodan As long as we have seperation of church and state no one should have to worrry about someone taking away their faith or making them believe a certain religion, and I think that may be Der Tris’s complaint,that some one is trying to force their beliefs into law. I have fundamentalist friends who are worried that their religion is not law and their faith will be taken away from them. No one can take my beliefs away, I have the freedom to use my own mind and am grateful to our forefathers who had the insite to protect the miniority from the majority, as far as religious belief is concerned. One could consider what happens when a religion uses law to inforce their belifs…Just look a t radical Muslim countries today as an example,then if Muslims became the majority here it would be the same. Think of the father who ran over his daughter because she wasn’t following her father’s radical ideas. If one doesn’t want the fundamentalist laws then they should make sure they get out and vote for a non-fundamentalist, then the law will protect them. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/162 "2009-11-04T12:56:58Z")
> [@Stan\_Shmenge](#): > > My girlfriend would tell you that Jesus never said a word about gays, and his word supersedes anything in Leviticus. The whole reason God sent Jesus was things were of hand and he was to straighten things out, and provide a way to be forgiven for all the nonsense that was taking place, so his word is the final say in things. She thinks gays should be allowed to do what they want. And she is most definitely a Christian. > > As far as making women wear black robes in the scorching desert, that is another religion entirely, one she does not believe in. And one, I might add, that has plenty of other things wrong with it besides. I can refer you to verses in the Quo’ran such as “slay those who ascribe divinity to aught besides God wherever you may come upon them, and take them captive, and besiege them, and lie in wait for them at every conceivable place.” Islam is the only religion I know of that advocates attacking and killing everybody else in any way you can think of. Ask your girl friend if she ever read the Epistles of Paul, that is why the Pope says being gay is a sin..a mortal one at that! I believe the Fundamentalists use that as well. ---
**Author:** ![Pedro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/919ad9/32.png) [@Pedro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pedro)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/163 "2009-11-04T13:07:09Z")
Add my vote for **Der Trihs**. Admire his patience and stamina to politely debunk religion. I’d rather just point and laugh. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/164 "2009-11-04T13:08:56Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > How would you explain **Der Trihs** the fact that the majority of the world who improved the world were religious? For instance people who fought for civil rights (Martin Luther King Jr.) or women’s rights (Susan B Anthony) were mostly religious. Your claim that religion is utterly evil is unfounded by reality. Would you really say for instance universalist Unitarian ministers who don’t try to convert you are dangerous? > > Also religion has many times influenced scientific advancement. For instance the Roman Catholic Church preserved a large amount of literature. Also Christianity has served scientific advanced far more than Roman paganism as the Christian view was that of a universal God in unknowable reaches of space who was portrayed the Architect of the Universe while Roman Paganism was just superstition packaged better. > > Finally what of the atheist tyrants who killed millions such as Stalin, Mao, or Pol Pot? I believe you are some sort of leftist possibly even a communist as you’ve stated previously that the US and the USSR were no better in the Cold War. The RCC also destroyed a lot of literature that didn’t agree with it’s teachings and put a lot of books on the list it’s people couldn’t read.(Early writings of Thomas etc. for example were excluded from the NT) At one time it even made people pledge not to see certain movies and leaned on their fear of hell if they did read or attend the movies it didn’t want them to see or read. At one time it was a sin to even go to a non Catholic Church service. Vatican 2 changed a lot of that. That is a way of brain washing..not to let people think for themselves. Luther changed that and the Christian Church again became a very divided religion. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/165 "2009-11-04T13:20:50Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > It is easy for me to say **I Love** … I even wrote a book about it… well **Vol. I** anyway, I’m working on Vol. II. 😉 > > Seriously though–sometimes “hate” is driven by utter frustration. Because of it, an intense inner anger seethes. The inner-voice says something like: “I can’t _believe_ people still believe the world is flat and they won’t shut up about it! They’re always all up in my face about it and _no_ amount of reasoning will make them stop derailing human progress and encroaching on people’s personal freedoms!!!” > > That, I think, is a bit like the “hatred” **Der Trihs** expresses. > > (I put \*hate \*and _hatred_ in quotes because I wonder just how much **Der Trihs** truly hates individuals–not institutions–that are religious. He may _say_ he has real hatred for those individuals, but I am free to opine that I’m not completely convinced). I wasn’t directing my ideas to Der Trihs, but makeing a general statement. Der Trihs doesn’t seem to be up set with the people as the religons that he feels harm them. One can love a person, but hate the action one takes. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/166 "2009-11-04T13:24:09Z")
> [@Stan\_Shmenge](#): > > One thing religion does provide, is answers that science, at least up to this point, cannot. > > Why are we here? > How did the universe get started? > What is the purpose of life? > Is there any existence beyond death? > > As an atheist, I realize that I may never have these answers, and have to be content with that. Some people are uncomfortable with not knowing the answer to these profound questions, and religion gives them what they need to make some sense of the world. > > Astronomy in particular used to really give me the heebie jeebies. Most people don’t even comprehend the immensity of the universe beyond the idea that the stars are very far away and the universe is very old. But the numbers, once understood, are so extremely humbling, that it is hard not to feel totally insignificant and unimportant. Religion gives comfort by saying that you ARE important. God sees every sparrow that falls, therefore he cares about you as well. It can also be considered that the answers are not the truth but a way of quieting their fears, like taking an asprin for a head ache, but not curing the cause. ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/167 "2009-11-04T13:24:36Z")
I didn’t read the thread, but count me as another fan of **Der Trihs**. I think that he is incredible patient, has honest debating tactics, and supports Enlightenment in general. Also, I have never seen him attack anyone who truly sees their religion as something personal. ---
**Author:** ![Nancarrow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c37758/32.png) [@Nancarrow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nancarrow)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/168 "2009-11-04T13:46:26Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > And yet both are inferior to empirical agnosticism, the only truly rigorous belief system. Via supreme coincidence it happens to be what I subscribe to. Are you empirically agnostic about the existence of a colony of ladybugs on the far side of the moon? ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/169 "2009-11-04T13:59:16Z")
> [@Stan\_Shmenge](#): > > Der Trihs, I am an atheist, and I am well aware of all the evil that can be laid at the doorstep of religion, but I can also see the good that it can do. Stan, I have to disagree with you and agree with DT based on that one statement alone. Arthur C. Clarke said it best: > [@](#): > > The greatest tragedy in mankind’s entire history may be the hijacking of morality by religion. Given that religion is a lie, a con game from start to finish, anything and everything that it does is tainted by that lie. It’s like swimming in a pool and ignoring the fact that someone peed in it. One does not need religion to be moral and do good; quite the opposite, actually. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/170 "2009-11-04T14:03:11Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > I wasn’t directing my ideas to Der Trihs, but makeing a general statement. Der Trihs doesn’t seem to be up set with the people as the religons that he feels harm them. One can love a person, but hate the action one takes. Hmmm…sounds a little like “hate the sin, love the sinner”, don’t it? I wonder why that works when we’re talking about believers but not when we’re talking about rationalists. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ea5d25/32.png) [@Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Scrappy_Hero_Pup)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/171 "2009-11-04T15:39:21Z")
[QUOTE= monavis] Ask your girl friend if she ever read the Epistles of Paul, that is why the Pope says being gay is a sin..a mortal one at that! [/QUOTE] Except the Epistles of Paul don’t say that, and the Pope doesn’t say that being gay is a mortal sin. We Christians have made our share of mistakes and misjudgments, we don’t need you inventing new ones. [QUOTE= monavis] The RCC also destroyed a lot of literature that didn’t agree with it’s teachings and put a lot of books on the list it’s people couldn’t read.(Early writings of Thomas etc. for example were excluded from the NT) [/QUOTE] Not adding the Gospel of Thomas to the Bible is not putting a book on a banned list. > [@](#): > > At one time it was a sin to even go to a non Catholic Church service. Vatican 2 changed a lot of that. Cite? [QUOTE= monavis] That is a way of brain washing..not to let people think for themselves. Luther changed that and the Christian Church again became a very divided religion. [/QUOTE] I’m pretty sure Martin Luther came BEFORE Vatican II. Of course, you’ve been spouting lunacy all thread, so feel free not to believe me. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/172 "2009-11-04T17:07:15Z")
> [@Nancarrow](#): > > Are you empirically agnostic about the existence of a colony of ladybugs on the far side of the moon? Well _I’m_ not, because I am a hundred per cent confident I can safely file that under “Ridiculous shit you made up when you posted to this thread”, and I needn’t look more deeply into it than that. ---
**Author:** ![Nancarrow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c37758/32.png) [@Nancarrow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nancarrow)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/173 "2009-11-04T17:18:26Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > Well _I’m_ not, because I am a hundred per cent confident I can safely file that under “Ridiculous shit you made up when you posted to this thread”, and I needn’t look more deeply into it than that. Indeed. I am glad to see that you have at least _some_ standards of evidence. There’s _some_ critical thinking going on there, you don’t just believe _anything_ anyone makes up. So, remind me, how did you ever hear about this Jesus guy? Once upon a time you did NOT believe Jesus was the son of God, because you didn’t have a clue who ‘Jesus’ or ‘God’ were. And then, a little while later, you DID believe, and have done ever since. When did that happen? What evidence persuaded you? How did you verify that assertion? How did you select that hypothesis amongst its many competitors? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/174 "2009-11-04T17:38:14Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Not to speak for **Trihs** , but that is one wild assumption. > > Personally, any church advocating for any political leader I find disgraceful, no matter the political bent. But then, I believe firmly that public life in all matters should be wholly secular and that religion should not extend beyond family, friends, and church. Is that marginalizing religion? Compared to the current culture in the US, yes, but I don’t believe the current culture in the US is healthy. Faith is a private, personal thing. IIRC, any church specifically campaigning for a particular politician or political party is subject to having their tax exempt status revoked, no? Yes, I know that doesn’t always happen, but if Bishop Such and Such were to come and out and say, “Vote for Senator What’s His Face!” he could be in a lot of trouble. Or campaigning actively for a certain bill from the pulpit. At least, I THINK that’s the case. It isn’t always followed through, though. Count me though as one who finds **Der Trihs** to be an asshole. I don’t give a shit what his beliefs are. “Help help, I’m being repressed!” :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![rivulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/839c29/32.png) [@rivulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rivulus)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/175 "2009-11-04T17:40:29Z")
> [@Maastricht](#): > > I didn’t read the thread, but count me as another fan of **Der Trihs**. I think that he is incredible patient, has honest debating tactics, and supports Enlightenment in general. Also, I have never seen him attack anyone who truly sees their religion as something personal. I agree. Sometimes **Der Trihs** jumps in more forcefully than appeals to my sensibilities. On the other hand, he has the patience to explain his position over and over again, in the face of some astonishingly willful ignorance. Under similar circumstances, I can confidently say, I would quickly flame out in a massive BBQ Pit bonfire of truly awesome proportions. Actually, as an aside, I am continually amazed by the patience displayed by a large number of Dopers during debates. One of the reasons I love this place. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/176 "2009-11-04T18:16:28Z")
Well, if by “patiently explaining” you mean repeating “religious people are evil and stupid” over and over again, then I agree with you. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/177 "2009-11-04T19:06:00Z")
Well, they ARE slow, and they need the repetition. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/178 "2009-11-04T19:10:41Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Well, if by “patiently explaining” you mean repeating “religious people are evil and stupid” over and over again, then I agree with you. Actually, he does a pretty good job explaining why he believes what he does. Whether you agree with him or not, he makes it plain where he’s coming from. Going back to the old partisan analogues, I think **Starving Artist** may be full of it but I think he does a decent job explaining why he thinks the way he does. Both of them may restate their theses an awful lot, but it’s far from the only thing they say. ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/179 "2009-11-04T20:57:06Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > **Der Trihs** is willing to go a lot further but IMO, he mostly tells it like it is. He is like the kid who is willing to point out that the Emperor Has No Clothes while everyone else shushes him. I am glad that there are people like him that are willing to go so far. Only rarely do I feel he goes _too_ far but I’d venture that most folks here–atheist or not, believe the opposite. –snipped from the excellent post #113, of which I agree with every word. **Der Trihs** is my hero. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/180 "2009-11-04T21:42:50Z")
Religion deserves to be hated. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150.md?page=10)