# Derek Jeter backing Jorge Posada **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [May 16, 2011, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/derek-jeter-backing-jorge-posada/582145 "2011-05-16T22:08:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/derek-jeter-backing-jorge-posada/582145/1 "2011-05-16T22:08:34Z")
For non-baseball fans, Yankee DH Posada arrived at the stadium, and seeing he’d been dropped to 9th. in the batting order (Posada is hitting .165), he asked for the night off. Jeter said, IHO, that Posada did nothing wrong. (Jeter isn’t exactly lighting it up). Why aren’t Jeter’s actions being considered insubordination? In ANY other line of work, his opinion and $3 would be worth a cup of coffee. Jeter is an EMPLOYEE, as such, he has NO RIGHT to question his boss’ decisions about a co-worker! ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/derek-jeter-backing-jorge-posada/582145/2 "2011-05-16T22:49:17Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > Jeter is an EMPLOYEE, as such, he has NO RIGHT to question his boss’ decisions about a co-worker! Can you show where that is stipulated in Jeter’s contract? I’m not Jeter, but I know I have the ability to question what my employers do. They don’t have to listen to me, but if they demanded all their employees keep all criticisms to themselves, relations would become adversarial and they would probably have a hard time hiring people. As far as I know, Jeter didn’t criticize the team. His “insubordination” consisted of saying Posada didn’t do anything wrong, should get a day off if he needed it, and did not need to apologize to the team for what happened over the weekend. The Yankees apparently saw it differently and were furious with Posada. I don’t know what really happened (although I had a feeling there was going to be a problem when he was dropped to ninth - you may as well sit him at that point anyway). Posada hasn’t been hitting worth a damn and has struggled with becoming a DH even though that was the right call by the team. I don’t know how he felt physically on Sunday. At most I think his back was a secondary issue to his being unhappy about the change in the batting order. That’s absolutely not how you want a player to respond to that kind of thing, but I was surprised they did not come to him ahead of time and offer him a few days off if he needed it, for example. ---
**Author:** ![Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleeps_With_Butterflies)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/derek-jeter-backing-jorge-posada/582145/3 "2011-05-16T22:52:55Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > Jeter is an EMPLOYEE, as such, he has NO RIGHT to question his boss’ decisions about a co-worker! Is this a joke thread or do you really believe this about employees? ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/derek-jeter-backing-jorge-posada/582145/4 "2011-05-16T22:58:31Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > . Jeter is an EMPLOYEE, as such, he has NO RIGHT to question his boss’ decisions about a co-worker! Have you watched much sports…like…ever? Players comment on other players, coaches, trades, etc faily often. For that matter, my relationship with my employer is such that I regularly question…and sometimes argue in loud and profane ways…whatever numbskulled bullshit they are trying to sell this week… ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/derek-jeter-backing-jorge-posada/582145/5 "2011-05-16T23:03:18Z")
> [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](#): > > Is this a joke thread or do you really believe this about employees? Not a joke at all. I’m stunned you think that how someone who isn’t you is treated at work is your business. (provided obviously, the boss’ behavior is legal) ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/derek-jeter-backing-jorge-posada/582145/6 "2011-05-16T23:49:34Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > Not a joke at all. I’m stunned you think that how someone who isn’t you is treated at work is your business. So if someone above me fires someone who works for me, or works alongside me and shares my responsibilities, you feel I’m not allowed to register an opinion? Why not? The people above me might be my employers, but they’re not the king. And what makes you think that’s how a good employer wants to run his business? To even use the word insubordination figuratively here is ridiculous - this isn’t the military, and Jeter didn’t refuse an order or bash anyone. He stood behind his teammate, which in general is what you want a player to do. The Yankees don’t seem to have had a problem with what he said. ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/derek-jeter-backing-jorge-posada/582145/7 "2011-05-16T23:55:42Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > For non-baseball fans, Yankee DH Posada arrived at the stadium, and seeing he’d been dropped to 9th. in the batting order (Posada is hitting .165), he asked for the night off. Jeter said, IHO, that Posada did nothing wrong. (Jeter isn’t exactly lighting it up). Why aren’t Jeter’s actions being considered insubordination? In ANY other line of work, his opinion and $3 would be worth a cup of coffee. Jeter is an EMPLOYEE, as such, he has NO RIGHT to question his boss’ decisions about a co-worker! Sounds to ME like you’ve not followed professional American sports much, or this is a thinly veiled, poorly executed attempt to just spew Yankee hatred! ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/derek-jeter-backing-jorge-posada/582145/8 "2011-05-16T23:58:53Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > So if someone above me fires someone who works for me, or works alongside me and shares my responsibilities, you feel I’m not allowed to register an opinion? Why not? The people above me might be my employers, but they’re not the king. And what makes you think that’s how a good employer wants to run his business? To even use the word insubordination figuratively here is ridiculous - this isn’t the military, and Jeter didn’t refuse an order or bash anyone. He stood behind his teammate, which in general is what you want a player to do. The Yankees don’t seem to have had a problem with what he said. If it’s a parallel co-worker (i.e. same job title/description), sure you have the right to get a heads up about it, but have NO right to a say in their fate. Military, like civilian life, has a pecking order, and Jeter is at the bottom of that pecking order. Oh, BTW, barring a descriminatory dismissal/harassment, the only responsibility a boss has to an employee is to assure their paycheck clears. ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/derek-jeter-backing-jorge-posada/582145/9 "2011-05-17T00:02:34Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > If it’s a parallel co-worker (i.e. same job title/description), sure you have the right to get a heads up about it, but have NO right to a say in their fate. Military, like civilian life, has a pecking order, and Jeter is at the bottom of that pecking order. Oh, BTW, barring a descriminatory dismissal/harassment, the only responsibility a boss has to an employee is to assure their paycheck clears. First, Jeter is the face of the franchise, and the captain of the team. Second, the press goes to him for quotes before and after every single game. Third, “bottom of the pecking order”? No, he’s not. Besides the above, he makes more money than just about everyone except the owners of the team. Fourth, it’s baseball, not the military. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/derek-jeter-backing-jorge-posada/582145/10 "2011-05-17T00:04:54Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > If it’s a parallel co-worker (i.e. same job title/description), sure you have the right to get a heads up about it, but have NO right to a say in their fate. Jeter doesn’t have a say in Posada’s fate. He’s allowed to register an opinion, but he didn’t override Girardi and put him back in the lineup. > [@](#): > > Oh, BTW, barring a descriminatory dismissal/harassment, the only responsibility a boss has to an employee is to assure their paycheck clears. Have you heard of unions? More importantly, you’re excluding the middle. Even if an employer is not _obliged_ to listen to his employees, it can still make sense for him to do so. For example it may make the employees feel like they have a bigger stake in the business, they may feel more appreciated, and they may have valuable input. Even if you can take a “do your job and shut up” attitude with your employees, it’s not necessarily a good idea. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/derek-jeter-backing-jorge-posada/582145/11 "2011-05-17T00:52:19Z")
**Southern Yankee** -Points #1 and #2 are irrelevant. In regard to #3, he’s a PLAYER, NOT the manager or GM or owner. And about #4. while the military is an imperfect ananlogy, it’s still a JOB, which is what being a proffessional athlete is. **Marley23** -I already stipulated that illegal termination shouldn’t be allowed, which is where unions come in. And people should be GRATEFUL they have jobs, because there are numerous people who would gladly step into the breach. It’d be nice if a boss got along with their employees, but as long as the treatment the employees receive is legal, just be grateful you have a job! ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/derek-jeter-backing-jorge-posada/582145/12 "2011-05-17T01:34:08Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > **Marley23** -I already stipulated that illegal termination shouldn’t be allowed, which is where unions come in. And people should be GRATEFUL they have jobs, because there are numerous people who would gladly step into the breach. It’d be nice if a boss got along with their employees, but as long as the treatment the employees receive is legal, just be grateful you have a job! Your argument still does not make sense, and this “you should be grateful to have a job” stuff is nonsense. Jeter has a job because his employer wants him. That was not just given to him, he earned it. I’m glad I have a job, but if my employer screws up, I am allowed to register my opinion. You have continually said Jeter shouldn’t do that or can’t do that, but you haven’t explained why. And you mischaracterized what he did. Jeter didn’t disobey any instructions, and he didn’t bash anybody. He said Posada was allowed to ask for a day off and didn’t need to apologize. He stood behind a teammate of 15 years, which is not the worst thing for your captain to do. My guess is that he didn’t fully understand what Posada did behind closed doors, but I could be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![goldmund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a4c791/32.png) [@goldmund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/goldmund)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/derek-jeter-backing-jorge-posada/582145/13 "2011-05-17T01:39:34Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Jeter doesn’t have a say in Posada’s fate. He’s allowed to register an opinion, but he didn’t override Girardi and put him back in the lineup. Um, Girardi had him in the lineup. Posada took himself out. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/derek-jeter-backing-jorge-posada/582145/14 "2011-05-17T01:41:58Z")
> [@teletype](#): > > Um, Girardi had him in the lineup. Posada took himself out. EXACTLY! And admittedly, THAT was more insubordinate than what Jeter did (though that’s no excuse) ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/derek-jeter-backing-jorge-posada/582145/15 "2011-05-17T01:42:58Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > **Southern Yankee** -Points #1 and #2 are irrelevant. In regard to #3, he’s a PLAYER, NOT the manager or GM or owner. And about #4. while the military is an imperfect ananlogy, it’s still a JOB, which is what being a proffessional athlete is. They are not irrelevant at all. Maybe you’ve missed the culture of sports the last 20 years but the stars have plenty of say in how the team is run. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/derek-jeter-backing-jorge-posada/582145/16 "2011-05-17T01:43:31Z")
Why Jeter shouldn’t have done those things? UM, becasue he’s NOT the manager, GM or owner! I’m still unclear why you don’t understand the concept of chain of command. ---
**Author:** ![Cyberhwk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7993a0/32.png) [@Cyberhwk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyberhwk)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/derek-jeter-backing-jorge-posada/582145/17 "2011-05-17T02:46:43Z")
Then the manager, GM or owner needs to fire him or STFU. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/derek-jeter-backing-jorge-posada/582145/18 "2011-05-17T02:48:25Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > Why Jeter shouldn’t have done those things? UM, becasue he’s NOT the manager, GM or owner! I’m still unclear why you don’t understand the concept of chain of command. “Chain of command” does not equate to “you may not register opinions.” I recently went to someone higher than I in my company who makes hiring decisions and, unsolicited, gave my opinion on which of the interns we should keep on, and which we should not. They hadn’t asked, but I figured they might want to know what I thought. Was this insubordinate? ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/derek-jeter-backing-jorge-posada/582145/19 "2011-05-17T03:10:34Z")
**furt** -OF COURSE that was insubordinate! He didn’t ASK for your opinion, and it’s NOT in your job description to hire/fire/promote people! ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/derek-jeter-backing-jorge-posada/582145/20 "2011-05-17T04:17:46Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > **furt** -OF COURSE that was insubordinate! He didn’t ASK for your opinion, and it’s NOT in your job description to hire/fire/promote people! You don’t understand what insubordination is. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/derek-jeter-backing-jorge-posada/582145.md?page=2)