# Derek Jeter backing Jorge Posada **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [May 16, 2011, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/derek-jeter-backing-jorge-posada/582145 "2011-05-16T22:08:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/derek-jeter-backing-jorge-posada/582145/61 "2011-05-17T22:10:57Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > I should’ve written 10x. Jesus Christ… What I should have written was: “Jeter did nothing wrong. 10 times nothing is nothing.” And then apparently I should have typed out a fucking Glossary or something. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/derek-jeter-backing-jorge-posada/582145/62 "2011-05-17T23:42:29Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > He’s DAMN LUCKY he wasn’t thrown out on his ass! In the real world, this is what would/should happen! You’re wrong. It is not what would happen at most workplaces, and I don’t know why you think it should. Maybe it would happen in the military, and it might happen at a business run by a tyrannical asshole. It’s hard to envision it happening at a successful business. > [@spark240](#): > > And yet Girardi was still writing him in, as a gesture of faith and support and appreciation for his history with the team. We might even see it as an effort to allow Posada to end his career on a more graceful note–electing to retire while still technically a regular player (in the last year of his contract). This gesture has an on-field cost for the team. Right. I don’t know how the news was broken to Posada and it’s possible that could have been handled better. It’s also understandable that Posada didn’t like being dropped in the lineup, but realistically, he’s been lousy and they’d have a stronger lineup without him even as as DH. > [@](#): > > The Yankees _could_ cut Posada from the roster, eat the salary, and call up [Jesus Montero](http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=monter001jes), for example. I saw one report that the Yankees were so angry at Posada - who reportedly cursed out Cashman and said he quit - that they contacted the MLB about voiding his contract. Cooler heads have prevailed as far as that goes. Perhaps not so much about the Jeter thing. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/derek-jeter-backing-jorge-posada/582145/63 "2011-05-17T23:50:34Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I saw one report that the Yankees were so angry at Posada - who reportedly cursed out Cashman and said he quit - that they contacted the MLB about voiding his contract. Cooler heads have prevailed as far as that goes. Perhaps not so much about the Jeter thing. 😉 When you’re an aging veteran, at the extreme tail end of your career, batting .165 and making $13mil… don’t go cursing your GM and saying you quit. He may just take you up on the offer. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/derek-jeter-backing-jorge-posada/582145/64 "2011-05-17T23:53:25Z")
**Marley23** -Successful businessmen don’t tolerate their employees contradicting them! ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/derek-jeter-backing-jorge-posada/582145/65 "2011-05-18T00:00:15Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > You’re wrong. It is not what would happen at most workplaces, and I don’t know why you think it should. Maybe it would happen in the military, and it might happen at a business run by a tyrannical asshole. It’s hard to envision it happening at a successful business. For what Jeter did, it wouldn’t happen in most non-combat military situations. But then, reporters don’t go putting microphones in front of every grunts mouth and then spend 10 column inches analyzing 2 sentences. If you were an officer, you would get a conversation from your superiors. If you did what Posada did, you might get non-judicial punishment. Penalties increase in combat zones. Previous history is taken into account. If you are a serial asshole, like Manny Ramirez, management is likely not to look as kindly on you as it would 2 players with ~15 years experience each and nearly no problems in all that time. And, because I am a Yankee fan and I’m watching the game, Posada just singled. Hopefully they can win one. It’s been a week. ETA **etv78** , yes they do (especially depending on the employee) and Jeter didn’t really contradict anyone. He just spoke without all the facts. ---
**Author:** ![Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleeps_With_Butterflies)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/derek-jeter-backing-jorge-posada/582145/66 "2011-05-18T00:08:04Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Hey, I’m a Sox fan and even I can see that the OP is nonsense. > [@Tanbarkie](#): > > Please don’t tar us Sox fans all with the same brush. Most of us don’t have bizarre misconceptions of what constitutes workplace etiquette. 🙂 > > Jeter was perfectly within his rights to voice his opinion, and etv78 must be horrifically unpleasant to work for. My sincere apologies to our fine Sawx fans who have the good sense to say “BUH?” to the OP. Sometimes the Pinstripe Fever makes me lash out with my largest and widest paintbrush 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/derek-jeter-backing-jorge-posada/582145/67 "2011-05-18T00:11:29Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > When you’re an aging veteran, at the extreme tail end of your career, batting .165 and making $13mil… don’t go cursing your GM and saying you quit. He may just take you up on the offer. There are plenty of GMs who only wish their over-the-hill stars would say something like that. But it sounds like everybody worked it out. Posada is in the lineup and hitting seventh tonight - he might be eighth if Swisher didn’t have the day off. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/derek-jeter-backing-jorge-posada/582145/68 "2011-05-18T00:20:03Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > For what Jeter did, it wouldn’t happen in most non-combat military situations. But then, reporters don’t go putting microphones in front of every grunts mouth and then spend 10 column inches analyzing 2 sentences. > > If you were an officer, you would get a conversation from your superiors. If you did what Posada did, you might get non-judicial punishment. Penalties increase in combat zones. Previous history is taken into account. If you are a serial asshole, like Manny Ramirez, management is likely not to look as kindly on you as it would 2 players with ~15 years experience each and nearly no problems in all that time. It’s hard to make an exact comparison since in most cases, the Jeter equivalent person wouldn’t complain in public and management wouldn’t know he’d said anything. > [@etv78](#): > > **Marley23** -Successful businessmen don’t tolerate their employees contradicting them! He didn’t contradict anyone, _and_ I have to question your experience with successful businessmen at this point. Can you name some examples? ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/derek-jeter-backing-jorge-posada/582145/69 "2011-05-18T00:28:31Z")
odds and Marley-You seem to believe that BOSSES put up with being undercut. I can’t fathom how this lead to any credibility with the rest of their workforce. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/derek-jeter-backing-jorge-posada/582145/70 "2011-05-18T03:15:28Z")
Get it through your fucking skull - Jeter did not undercut anyone. Not Girardi, not Cashman, not Levine, not Steinbrenner. The assertion that he did is patently stupid. If someone is truly undercutting their boss, then they will be excised. Why it took so long to get rid of Ramirez, who was undercutting the entire Red Sox franchise is mind-boggling. All Jeter did was misspoke. After ~15 years of exemplary service and 99.9% positive relations both publicly and privately, their is no sane boss on the planet who would get rid of such an employee for one minor misstatement. If you’re going to continue with the stupidity that Jeter was insubordinate, then I’m going to start treating you like I treat birthers, 9/11 truthers, and moon landing hoax believers. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/derek-jeter-backing-jorge-posada/582145/71 "2011-05-18T11:15:23Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > odds and Marley-You seem to believe that BOSSES put up with being undercut. I can’t fathom how this lead to any credibility with the rest of their workforce. A good boss doesn’t rely on being a tyrannical asshole, and a good boss doesn’t need to leave his employees so terrified they won’t express any differing opinions. That makes for a crappy business culture and encourages employees to go somewhere else where they won’t be treated like dirt. It’s true that if you storm into your boss’ office and call him an asshole, you will probably be out of a job in about 3 seconds. But if you did what Jeter did, you probably wouldn’t be out of a job even if it did get back to your boss (which, in a real life situation, it probably would not). He said his teammate is a good guy and is allowed to take a game off if he needs it. That’s not ungrateful, disloyal, or insubordinate, and your contention that it’s none of his business is false. > [@D\_Odds](#): > > If someone is truly undercutting their boss, then they will be excised. Why it took so long to get rid of Ramirez, who was undercutting the entire Red Sox franchise is mind-boggling. Because he was a good player and because they wanted to try to get value if they got rid of him- which is difficult when you’re talking about trading an aging player with a very high salary who doesn’t play good defense and is a headcase. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/derek-jeter-backing-jorge-posada/582145/72 "2011-05-18T11:35:56Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > A good boss doesn’t rely on being a tyrannical asshole, and a good boss doesn’t need to leave his employees so terrified they won’t express any differing opinions. Coming from a Yankee fan, this is a hilariously ironic comment. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/derek-jeter-backing-jorge-posada/582145/73 "2011-05-18T12:03:08Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > Coming from a Yankee fan, this is a hilariously ironic comment. I assure you it wasn’t lost on me. 😉 George Steinbrenner had to pay people more to get them to put up with that crap, and even then, it didn’t always work. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/derek-jeter-backing-jorge-posada/582145/74 "2011-05-18T14:23:27Z")
There is still the G. Steinbrenner NY Yankee surcharge during all negotiations, even though the two sons are not as bad. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/derek-jeter-backing-jorge-posada/582145/75 "2011-05-19T01:30:23Z")
That’s what I don’t get–Yankee fans agreeing that he was a monster, a cruel and tyrannical boss who ruled by temper tantrum and whim, punctuated by gigantically misproportionate excess contract that caused him to get beaten by agents many and many a time, and you’re outraged that he isn’t in the Hall of Fame. I’m not sure that surcharge that the players get from the Yankees is so much monster-related as it is “You over-pay everyone, so if you don’t over-pay me, then you’re under-paying me in a way.” ---
**Author:** ![Ace309](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ace309/32/1050_2.png) [@Ace309](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ace309)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/derek-jeter-backing-jorge-posada/582145/76 "2011-05-19T01:36:57Z")
Good managers don’t make business decisions based on ego. Assume for the moment that in baseball, a good business decision is one that will increase revenue or stop a decrease from happening, and further that revenue in baseball is a function of team performance and goodwill. Even if Jeter’s comments have a net negative effect on performance, benching Jeter will lead to a loss of his production. I’m not sure who the Yanks have in reserve to play shortstop, but Jeter is a proven producer. Even if his numbers are down now, is it as likely that, eg, Nunez’s production will outperform Jeter’s over the course of the benching? Even if Nunez does outperform Jeter, people go to the ballpark to see Jeter. Knowing Jeter will be benched will probably have a net negative effect on ticket sales. I’m not sure what benefit punishing Jeter would have for the Yankees from such a business perspective, so I can’t agree that Jeter should be punished for making public comments critical of his manager. If Jeter shouldn’t be punished, then isn’t that similar to saying that he does, indeed, have a right to make such comments? ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/derek-jeter-backing-jorge-posada/582145/77 "2011-05-19T02:05:56Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > That’s what I don’t get–Yankee fans agreeing that he was a monster, a cruel and tyrannical boss who ruled by temper tantrum and whim, punctuated by gigantically misproportionate excess contract that caused him to get beaten by agents many and many a time, and you’re outraged that he isn’t in the Hall of Fame. Who’s “outraged” that he’s not in the HOF? I know a lot of Yankee fans and I’ve never heard anyone express any concern at all that he’s not there. Personally, I _think_ he will eventually be put in, but I don’t really get excited one way or another by any non-player candidates. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/derek-jeter-backing-jorge-posada/582145/78 "2011-05-19T03:54:46Z")
I think **etv78** needs to get a job and some life experience. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/derek-jeter-backing-jorge-posada/582145/79 "2011-05-19T04:20:47Z")
> [@Yookeroo](#): > > I think **etv78** needs to get a job and some life experience. So a lack of life experience deprives me of the right to an opinion? _OK_ :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/derek-jeter-backing-jorge-posada/582145/80 "2011-05-19T04:37:50Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > So a lack of life experience deprives me of the right to an opinion? _OK_ :rolleyes: You can have any opinion you want. But you won’t have an opinion that anyone else will take very seriously. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/derek-jeter-backing-jorge-posada/582145.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/derek-jeter-backing-jorge-posada/582145.md?page=5)