# DeSantis can't win the GOP nomination or the general election in 2024 {How Trump plays into this is allowed} **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [February 23, 2023, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desantis-cant-win-the-gop-nomination-or-the-general-election-in-2024-how-trump-plays-into-this-is-allowed/980249 "2023-02-23T18:07:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2023, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desantis-cant-win-the-gop-nomination-or-the-general-election-in-2024-how-trump-plays-into-this-is-allowed/980249/201 "2023-02-27T16:29:04Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > But that’s the part that gets me: why do people take them seriously to begin with? If, as you say, a blatant lie is the sort of thing that politicians can just shrug about, then why the heck don’t people treat it like Something-They-Can-Just-Shrug-About from the start? Because they see it as “speaking his mind without caring about woke political correctness.” If the facts prove to be wrong, or even contradictory, that’s irrelevant – they’re drawn more to the spirit of a renegade voicing uncomfortable “truths” than the actual truth. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2023, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desantis-cant-win-the-gop-nomination-or-the-general-election-in-2024-how-trump-plays-into-this-is-allowed/980249/202 "2023-02-27T16:33:27Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > Because they see it as “speaking his mind without caring about woke political correctness.” If the facts prove to be wrong, or even contradictory, that’s irrelevant – they’re drawn more to the spirit of a renegade voicing uncomfortable “truths” than the actual truth. That, and the rush of “owning the libs” - if they feel like libs were owned, that’s what matters most. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2023, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desantis-cant-win-the-gop-nomination-or-the-general-election-in-2024-how-trump-plays-into-this-is-allowed/980249/203 "2023-02-27T20:30:25Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > Actually, to a measurable extent, the people around him did stop him; otherwise, 1/6 and more would have succeeded. Just to be clear, there was zero chance of 1/6 “succeeding”. The goal was to ensure that Trump remained POTUS. That could never happen. He had already lost, and for the most part what was happening that day was a formality. (An important one, but I can’t see any situation where any circumstances could have led to Trump serving another term as POTUS; at most it might have delayed things a bit.) There were people around Trump that kept things from escalating further, though. Imagine what might have happened if he had actually gone to be with the rioters himself. Well, I actually would rather not try to imagine that. Any number of things might have happened, from things being more violent to Trump himself getting hurt. (And as much as I dislike the man, if he was harmed that would have been bad for everyone; it’s a good thing that he was safely away from the danger.) ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2023, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desantis-cant-win-the-gop-nomination-or-the-general-election-in-2024-how-trump-plays-into-this-is-allowed/980249/204 "2023-02-27T21:00:48Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Just to be clear, there was zero chance of 1/6 “succeeding”. I agree with everything else you said, but I’d like to clarify on this point. I agree that, thanks to the overall situation in the US on 1/6/21, it had no chance of succeeding. Even had Trump declared martial law and had significant backing from his GOP toadies and enablers, it would not have succeeded. The military, state governments, etc., would not have gone along with it, and even some enablers would have turned on him. I think a better way of phrasing what I said would be, “Had his enablers been more numerous and powerful than they were, it could easily have been worse than it was.” Even so, it was a horrific situation. Hitler’s assumption of power “legally” on 1/30/33 and in the subsequent weeks and months shows what can happen in a weaker political system and culture. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2023, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desantis-cant-win-the-gop-nomination-or-the-general-election-in-2024-how-trump-plays-into-this-is-allowed/980249/205 "2023-02-27T21:42:32Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > I agree that, thanks to the overall situation in the US on 1/6/21, it had no chance of succeeding. My view (often expressed here) is that it came very close to succeeding. If Pence could screw up the count by refusing to acknowledge the dispute ballots, he could send it to the House, and Trump would have won. The courts would have said that’s the way it’s supposed to happen when no candidate gets the majority of votes. Case closed. People would be _very_ unhappy, but unless the good guys took to the streets, Trump would have another four years. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2023, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desantis-cant-win-the-gop-nomination-or-the-general-election-in-2024-how-trump-plays-into-this-is-allowed/980249/206 "2023-02-27T21:46:18Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > Because they see it as “speaking his mind without caring about woke political correctness.” If the facts prove to be wrong, or even contradictory, that’s irrelevant – they’re drawn more to the spirit of a renegade voicing uncomfortable “truths” than the actual truth. > [@snowthx](#): > > That, and the rush of “owning the libs” - if they feel like libs were owned, that’s what matters most. Yes, these are not people who care about the truth. Did most Nazi supporters in the early 30s care about whether what the Nazis were saying about the Jews was true? No. The logic was, “These are the people we are beating up on, and beating up on them together brings us together and makes us powerful.” That is Trump’s talent: pointing at people and things to get enraged about and using that rage as a focal point for power and action. Conceptually, it seems simple, but there are a lot of nuances to it. DeSantis doesn’t have this talent. Sure, he plays the “pwn the libs” game decently enough, as do MTG and a whole host of other assholes in politics and the media. The thing is, to be an effective Hitler or Trump, you really need to develop a cult of personality and continually and effectively stoke and manage the fires of rage and resentment. There is a certain rhythm to it and method for escalating. Remember that, even though Hitler took power on 1/30/33, Kristallnacht did not happen until 11/9-10/38–even after Hitler had gone so far as to take over Czechoslovakia and absorb Austria. Not to praise this aspect of him too much because he was ultimately an idiot in his own right, but Hitler could plan for the long term. Trump is a dummy and just too impulsive. Had he had any sense, he would have tried to be a better, more reasonable president in his first term while building toward dictatorship in his second. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2023, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desantis-cant-win-the-gop-nomination-or-the-general-election-in-2024-how-trump-plays-into-this-is-allowed/980249/207 "2023-02-27T21:48:52Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > The courts would have said that’s the way it’s supposed to happen when no candidate gets the majority of votes. Case closed. People would be _very_ unhappy, but unless the good guys took to the streets, Trump would have another four years. I don’t know how far the courts would have supported him. It’s an open question in my view. But if the courts _had_ supported him, I think it would have caused the country to unravel. It would have been a match in a powder keg–I’m not sure what the outcome would have been, but I don’t think the various entities in the US–state governments, corporations, etc.–would have just shrugged their shoulders. ---
**Author:** ![EastUmpqua](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eastumpqua/32/6025_2.png) [@EastUmpqua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EastUmpqua)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2023, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desantis-cant-win-the-gop-nomination-or-the-general-election-in-2024-how-trump-plays-into-this-is-allowed/980249/208 "2023-02-28T01:53:01Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > DeSantis doesn’t have this talent. Sure, he plays the “pwn the libs” game decently enough Why would DeSantis need that talent if his ideology is genuine and he shows strong leadership? I’ve seen numerous references to Trump in this thread, but I still don’t see why “DeSantis can’t win the GOP nomination or general election in 2024”. I think there are a lot of conservatives who are tired of Trump’s reality-show tactics, not to mention his lewd comments about women, even if they agree with most of his political agenda. I think DeSantis can out-debate Trump, and he doesn’t carry Trumps baggage. I think DeSantis would easily defeat Biden in the general election. Hopefully we will have a better choice for the Democratic candidate than Biden. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2023, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desantis-cant-win-the-gop-nomination-or-the-general-election-in-2024-how-trump-plays-into-this-is-allowed/980249/209 "2023-02-28T02:45:56Z")
> [@EastUmpqua](#): > > I think DeSantis can out-debate Trump, and he doesn’t carry Trumps baggage. Anyone can out-debate Trump. He still won the primary and then the general election in 2016. DeSantis might fare poorly in a debate against other contenders. He has the opposite problem that Trump does; he might give reasonable answers but he’ll deliver them in uninspiring and forgettable ways. > [@EastUmpqua](#): > > I think DeSantis would easily defeat Biden in the general election. DeSantis has some extremely bad things under his belt that play well in Florida but won’t translate well nationally. I can’t say he would have no chance of winning but there’s no way he’d “easily” defeat Biden. I’d say there is zero chance he’d win the popular vote. He’d have to hope that he can win enough of the right states to get a win, the way Trump did. It’s possible, and there’s still a lot of time between now and the election. ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2023, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desantis-cant-win-the-gop-nomination-or-the-general-election-in-2024-how-trump-plays-into-this-is-allowed/980249/210 "2023-02-28T02:51:31Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Anyone can out-debate Trump. Anyone can out-debate Trump _in a fair debate_. And Trump will absolutely not play by any such rules. He will interrupt, he will blather, he will invade the other candidate’s personal space… anything he can do to avoid having to answer questions beyond giving quippy soundbites about how he’s great and everyone else sucks. But as soon as Trump is pressed for specifics he’ll start whining about how he’s being persecuted. No one is allowed to ask him what his plan is. Just know that he has it, it is better than any plan that anyone else has ever come up with and he’ll be doing it in about “two weeks”. ---
**Author:** ![EastUmpqua](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eastumpqua/32/6025_2.png) [@EastUmpqua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EastUmpqua)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2023, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desantis-cant-win-the-gop-nomination-or-the-general-election-in-2024-how-trump-plays-into-this-is-allowed/980249/211 "2023-02-28T03:29:08Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > DeSantis has some extremely bad things under his belt that play well in Florida Any examples of these extremely bad things, besides Disney? I’m still a bit conflicted about Disney. ---
**Author:** ![JohnGalt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johngalt/32/184_2.png) [@JohnGalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnGalt)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2023, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desantis-cant-win-the-gop-nomination-or-the-general-election-in-2024-how-trump-plays-into-this-is-allowed/980249/212 "2023-02-28T03:37:06Z")
How about his war on education, now extending to higher education: > **[Opinion | DeSantis’s ‘Apocalyptic’ Attack on Higher Education](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/27/opinion/desantis-higher-education-bill.html)** > > The Florida governor borrows from Viktor Orban’s playbook. ---
**Author:** ![EastUmpqua](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eastumpqua/32/6025_2.png) [@EastUmpqua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EastUmpqua)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2023, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desantis-cant-win-the-gop-nomination-or-the-general-election-in-2024-how-trump-plays-into-this-is-allowed/980249/213 "2023-02-28T03:42:33Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > I’d say there is zero chance he’d win the popular vote. That may be true. But [political demographics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_demography) change. DeSantis might get more latino voters than a typical GOP candidate would. He would probably get urban blue-collar and military votes. I agree there’s lots of time before the election. I just hope it’s not Biden-Trump again. ---
**Author:** ![EastUmpqua](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eastumpqua/32/6025_2.png) [@EastUmpqua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EastUmpqua)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2023, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desantis-cant-win-the-gop-nomination-or-the-general-election-in-2024-how-trump-plays-into-this-is-allowed/980249/214 "2023-02-28T03:49:03Z")
> [@JohnGalt](#): > > How about his war on education, now extending to higher education: I couldn’t read the article you linked without paying money. Whenever I see ‘Apocalyptic’ or ‘just like Hitler’, I tend to take it with a grain of salt, especially if it starts with ‘Opinion’. ---
**Author:** ![JohnGalt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johngalt/32/184_2.png) [@JohnGalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnGalt)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2023, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desantis-cant-win-the-gop-nomination-or-the-general-election-in-2024-how-trump-plays-into-this-is-allowed/980249/215 "2023-02-28T03:54:04Z")
Sorry about that. Here’s the gift link: Regardless of the title, his total takeover is pretty scary if you don’t think exactly like he wants you to think. > **[Opinion | DeSantis’s ‘Apocalyptic’ Attack on Higher Education](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/27/opinion/desantis-higher-education-bill.html?unlocked_article_code=VFrrx6jt9kq5QJiXgZ9ikkxoUYjcQDBPqfh5O9ueTbHs5_glf8Ob_ADoZUY4DqjBIOn6Vz_zBkcq9mtvp6yeFlDrM3X30KTgUVGCid7rmDyTo1zcIfRxJrXaU7ni5cpn0HsCZMtuad7nsyeM0ZKsHu9-pS0bV8SD9Qj-46Y_xo7yP8vliqrccVhw-L346To37zX_5cmYqnNTMcdHZ9B11I4vW6KFVi7cSTF61SJIL9n80boxYHk8dduCwGuHe2S2Vh2hM6KuqYFZf5JStryJiqT6ODLmr_QteefEz-rIeVUOEdcNL03a2dKFQUlnffSSGwlSt7jz0yUDcjfWrYEx5huuh-enHG0EXA&gifttype=fulllink&smid=url-share)** > > The Florida governor borrows from Viktor Orban’s playbook. ---
**Author:** ![EastUmpqua](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eastumpqua/32/6025_2.png) [@EastUmpqua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EastUmpqua)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2023, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desantis-cant-win-the-gop-nomination-or-the-general-election-in-2024-how-trump-plays-into-this-is-allowed/980249/216 "2023-02-28T04:14:14Z")
Thanks. I don’t agree with this section of the bill, in a similar way that I don’t agree with Universities removing references to historical figures that are not approved by modern sensibilities. If this applies to private Universities, it’s very bad: 53. The board shall periodically review the mission of each 54. 67 constituent university and provide updates or revisions to such 55. 68 mission as needed; examine existing academic programs at each 56. 69 constituent university for alignment with the university’s 57. 70 mission; and provide direction to each constituent university on 58. 71 removing from its programs any major or minor in Critical Race 59. 72 Theory, Gender Studies, or Intersectionality, or any derivative 60. 73 major or minor of these belief systems, which is any major or 61. 74 minor that engenders beliefs in the concepts defined in s. 62. 75 1000.05(4)(a). ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2023, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desantis-cant-win-the-gop-nomination-or-the-general-election-in-2024-how-trump-plays-into-this-is-allowed/980249/217 "2023-02-28T16:22:50Z")
> [@EastUmpqua](#): > > Thanks. I don’t agree with this section of the bill, in a similar way that I don’t agree with Universities removing references to historical figures that are not approved by modern sensibilities. Republicans across the country, including Desantis, are working to remove references to historical figures that are not approved by their sensibilities from schools at all levels. Glad to see that you consider this to be a bad thing. ---
**Author:** ![EastUmpqua](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eastumpqua/32/6025_2.png) [@EastUmpqua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EastUmpqua)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2023, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desantis-cant-win-the-gop-nomination-or-the-general-election-in-2024-how-trump-plays-into-this-is-allowed/980249/218 "2023-02-28T18:12:30Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Republicans across the country, including Desantis, are working to remove references to historical figures that are not approved by their sensibilities from schools at all levels. Ok, so I’m pretty much over DeSantis now. Can you give any examples of Republicans canceling historical figures these days? I’ve mostly heard that kind of censorship is usually by the Progressives. Thanks ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2023, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desantis-cant-win-the-gop-nomination-or-the-general-election-in-2024-how-trump-plays-into-this-is-allowed/980249/219 "2023-02-28T18:18:22Z")
> [@EastUmpqua](#): > > Can you give any examples of Republicans canceling historical figures these days? I’ve mostly heard that kind of censorship is usually by the Progressives. Thanks You’re mixing ideas here. “Canceling historical figures” doesn’t have much meaning. Taking down a monument honoring someone who doesn’t deserve to be honored, doesn’t mean that there would be any type of censorship about that person. General Robert E. Lee, for example, should be taught about in schools, (not censored) but it’s perfectly okay to take down statues honoring him (cancelled?). ETA: I’m unaware of any censorship “by the Progressives.” ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2023, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desantis-cant-win-the-gop-nomination-or-the-general-election-in-2024-how-trump-plays-into-this-is-allowed/980249/220 "2023-02-28T18:25:47Z")
Here’s one example: > **[Texas board votes to eliminate Hillary Clinton, Helen Keller from history...](https://www.dallasnews.com/news/education/2018/09/14/texas-board-votes-to-eliminate-hillary-clinton-helen-keller-from-history-curriculum/)** > > AUSTIN — The Alamo defenders are heroes, but Hillary Clinton is not required reading.As part of an effort to "streamline" the social studies... _As part of an effort to “streamline” the social studies curriculum in public schools, the State Board of Education voted Friday to adjust what students in every grade learn in the classroom. Among the changes, board members approved the removal of several historical figures, including Clinton and Keller, from the curriculum._ _The board also voted to keep in the curriculum [a reference to the “heroism” of the defenders of the Alamo](https://www.dallasnews.com/news/education/2018/09/11/texas-probably-wont-ax-reference-heroic-alamo-defenders-history-class-moses-slavery), which [had been recommended for elimination](https://www.dallasnews.com/news/politics/2018/09/07/dont-call-alamos-defenders-heroic-texas-school-curriculum-panel-urges), as well as [Moses’ influence on the writing of the nation’s founding documents](https://www.dallasnews.com/news/education/2018/09/11/texas-probably-wont-ax-reference-heroic-alamo-defenders-history-class-moses-slavery), multiple references to “Judeo-Christian” values and a requirement that students explain how the “Arab rejection of the State of Israel has led to ongoing conflict” in the Middle East._ And another: > **[Texas Senate Passes Bill Removing MLK, Suffrage From Required Curriculum](https://truthout.org/articles/texas-senate-passes-bill-removing-mlk-suffrage-from-required-curriculum/)** > > The bill also removes requirements to teach that white supremacy and the Ku Klux Klan are “morally wrong.”… _The bill, SB 3, removes requirements to teach about [civil rights work by](https://www.texastribune.org/2021/07/09/texas-critical-race-theory-schools-legislation/) Cesar Chavez, Dolores Huerta, Martin Luther King Jr. and Frederick Douglass. Works by women’s suffragists are also no longer required to be taught._ _The Republicans’ bill also removes requirements to teach “the history of white supremacy, including but not limited to the institution of slavery, the eugenics movement, and the Ku Klux Klan, and the ways in which it is morally wrong.”_ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desantis-cant-win-the-gop-nomination-or-the-general-election-in-2024-how-trump-plays-into-this-is-allowed/980249.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desantis-cant-win-the-gop-nomination-or-the-general-election-in-2024-how-trump-plays-into-this-is-allowed/980249.md?page=12)