# DeSantis can't win the GOP nomination or the general election in 2024 {How Trump plays into this is allowed} **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [February 23, 2023, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desantis-cant-win-the-gop-nomination-or-the-general-election-in-2024-how-trump-plays-into-this-is-allowed/980249 "2023-02-23T18:07:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desantis-cant-win-the-gop-nomination-or-the-general-election-in-2024-how-trump-plays-into-this-is-allowed/980249/281 "2023-03-05T01:12:49Z")
Good stuff! > [@LSLGuy](#): > > I have argued for a similar political philosophy for 3 decades now. I used to call it “'Thinking Progressive Capitalism” > > Nothing about private property, a basically capitalist economic system, and fiscally sound government is antithetical to equal rights and equal opportunities for folks beyond just white male Protestants. I think we need to _evolve_ toward a better economic system, the most important difference with our current debt-based system. I call “capitalism” the “legacy economic system,” or LES. To me, contrasting “capitalism” with something like communism leads to the bad mental habit of thinking that capitalism is a designed and optimized system–which it definitely is not. Nevertheless, precisely because it is an evolved system means that there is a lot in it that works for humans. Freedom of markets (with reasonable regulation) and freedom of personal endeavor are very important. Personal property makes intuitive sense to humans (within reason: “my house, my car”–yes; “my offshore tax shelter, my shares in a shell corporation”–not so much). > [@](#): > > Conservatism (whether large-C or small-c) is about assuming nothing can be improved, that we live in the best of all worlds now. IOW that society and government is already optimal. The current GOP is not even “conservative”; it is a radical authoritarian cult. But even before that, back in the Reagan through Dubya years, there was not a vision for the future (at least not in terms of domestic policy). > [@](#): > > Progress. We expect it in science, tech, economics (at least insofar as wealth / GDP / etc.), and even in biological evolution. Why do we insist on its absence in our social and political arrangements? Exactly. Technology and society are constantly changing. Government needs to keep up. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desantis-cant-win-the-gop-nomination-or-the-general-election-in-2024-how-trump-plays-into-this-is-allowed/980249/282 "2023-03-05T01:15:39Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > Exactly. Technology and society are constantly changing. Government needs to keep up. But…but…the Constitution as a sacred and inviolate object! Original intent of the framers! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desantis-cant-win-the-gop-nomination-or-the-general-election-in-2024-how-trump-plays-into-this-is-allowed/980249/283 "2023-03-05T01:17:37Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > I think my political beliefs are in line with both of you. That all makes perfect sense to me. Thanks! > [@](#): > > I went from conservative to moderate to liberal but I’m measured about it. I am on the left undoubtedly at this point but I don’t think I’m too far from the center, and I’m certainly not a revolutionary. And I think that sometimes we need to be leftist radicals when that is truly necessary. And when we see the Cultural Revolution bullshit that Bill Mahr pointed out recently, we need to be conservative and oppose that: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/yysKhJ1U-vM/maxresdefault.jpg "New Rule: A Woke Revolution | Real Time with Bill Maher (HBO)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yysKhJ1U-vM) So I see myself as being on the Left, but that’s because the Left wants things that are good for humanity that we still need to get done. If all that were done, then I guess I would just call myself a centrist: keep what we have and make such improvements that are necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desantis-cant-win-the-gop-nomination-or-the-general-election-in-2024-how-trump-plays-into-this-is-allowed/980249/284 "2023-03-05T01:20:52Z")
I think the term you’re looking for is an enlightened centrist. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desantis-cant-win-the-gop-nomination-or-the-general-election-in-2024-how-trump-plays-into-this-is-allowed/980249/285 "2023-03-05T01:20:58Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > In fact in many cases the conservative going in assumption is that the last WAG 30 years have made things worse, and so the term “conservatism” stands most accurately for the proposition of returning to the era of the spokesman’s childhood or before. Agreed. It seems, to me, like the goal of the MAGA movement is to take the U.S. back to somewhere in the late '50s or early '60s: pre-Civil Rights Act, pre-feminist movement, pre-sexual liberation, when the “norm” was being a white heterosexual Christian, and anyone who wasn’t that “knew their place” as second-class citizens. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desantis-cant-win-the-gop-nomination-or-the-general-election-in-2024-how-trump-plays-into-this-is-allowed/980249/286 "2023-03-05T01:21:13Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > But…but…the Constitution as a sacred and inviolate object! Original intent of the framers! 😉 A lot in the Constitution is obsolete and it’s so difficult to change that I don’t know what will happen eventually. If evolution becomes impossible, the death of the system (e.g., Rome) or revolution (many examples) remain the only options. I’m not sure what our current vector is. So much change is needed right now, yet we have mad and irrational opposition to all _good_ change in the form of the GOP. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desantis-cant-win-the-gop-nomination-or-the-general-election-in-2024-how-trump-plays-into-this-is-allowed/980249/287 "2023-03-05T01:21:50Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Agreed. It seems, to me, like the goal of the MAGA movement is to take the U.S. back to somewhere in the late '50s or early '60s: pre-Civil Rights Act, pre-feminist movement, pre-sexual liberation, when the “norm” was being a white heterosexual Christian, and anyone who wasn’t that “knew their place” as second-class citizens. Good summation. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desantis-cant-win-the-gop-nomination-or-the-general-election-in-2024-how-trump-plays-into-this-is-allowed/980249/288 "2023-03-05T01:38:38Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > Exactly. Technology and society are constantly changing. Government needs to keep up. Government is nice and all, but we must accept that society is far more than mere government. And society itself is not merely a Force of Nature that proceeds willy-nilly into the future due to inscrutable and unalterable pressures. Human nature in its raw unmanaged form may be eternal and unalterable. Human behavior and human learning and education are anything but. Society goes where it is led. It can be led by the forces of nihilism, the forces of unbridled greed, the forces of commercial conformity. Or the forces of collective betterment while including individual self-interest to the degree it isn’t invidious self-interest. The conservative mindset is that feral humans are the best humans. I think 4,000 years of civilization conclusively puts the lie to that nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desantis-cant-win-the-gop-nomination-or-the-general-election-in-2024-how-trump-plays-into-this-is-allowed/980249/289 "2023-03-05T01:47:44Z")
Quoting myself for context … > [@LSLGuy](#): > > I have argued for a similar political philosophy for 3 decades now. I used to call it “'Thinking Progressive Capitalism” In the cited post justified the “Capitalism” part and the “Progressive” part. I neglected to justify the “Thinking” part. I’d summarize that as the difference between greed and enlightened self-interest. And the difference between know-nothingism and knowledgeable careful policy analysis. And between “feeling” and “thinking”. Ultimately my Thinking Progressive Capitalism is a _very_ elite mindset. But it’s an elite comprised of knowledgeable thinkers of a kindly mindset, not an elite of wealthy rent-seeking parasites nor of psychopathic political power-hounds. There are no barriers to entry to this elite. Anyone can join except the truly mentally disabled. All you have to do is learn, think, and act equitably towards all. It’s utterly irreligious, but oddly enough has a lot in common with what various prophets of various religions have been going on about for millennia now. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desantis-cant-win-the-gop-nomination-or-the-general-election-in-2024-how-trump-plays-into-this-is-allowed/980249/290 "2023-03-05T02:04:30Z")
Well said! ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desantis-cant-win-the-gop-nomination-or-the-general-election-in-2024-how-trump-plays-into-this-is-allowed/980249/291 "2023-03-05T06:35:47Z")
> [@snowthx](#): > > As mentioned, it would take years to get another, similar set of parks up and profitable somewhere else. Plus they’re going to want a place with no snow – big parks open only seven or eight months a year have a poor track record of survival. California is out with Disneyland the original already there. Texas? Georgia? New Mexico? Hawaii, maybe but no families will be taking a road trip there. ---
**Author:** ![EastUmpqua](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eastumpqua/32/6025_2.png) [@EastUmpqua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EastUmpqua)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desantis-cant-win-the-gop-nomination-or-the-general-election-in-2024-how-trump-plays-into-this-is-allowed/980249/292 "2023-03-05T19:28:38Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > Thanks. To me, “conservative progressive” means both So I think that makes me a progressive conservative. I agree with both of your definitions, with these additions: It’s import to me that our government spends less money. I also think states should have jurisdiction on social legislation (of course, to a point). ---
**Author:** ![EastUmpqua](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eastumpqua/32/6025_2.png) [@EastUmpqua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EastUmpqua)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desantis-cant-win-the-gop-nomination-or-the-general-election-in-2024-how-trump-plays-into-this-is-allowed/980249/293 "2023-03-05T19:38:03Z")
> [@Chingon](#): > > enlightened centrist. I like this term, and consider myself one. I’m pretty sure not everyone would agree with that. ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desantis-cant-win-the-gop-nomination-or-the-general-election-in-2024-how-trump-plays-into-this-is-allowed/980249/294 "2023-03-05T19:51:00Z")
I’d certainly agree that is an accurate description. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desantis-cant-win-the-gop-nomination-or-the-general-election-in-2024-how-trump-plays-into-this-is-allowed/980249/295 "2023-03-05T20:15:18Z")
Deleted. ---
**Author:** ![EastUmpqua](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eastumpqua/32/6025_2.png) [@EastUmpqua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EastUmpqua)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desantis-cant-win-the-gop-nomination-or-the-general-election-in-2024-how-trump-plays-into-this-is-allowed/980249/296 "2023-03-05T21:25:39Z")
Beep. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2023, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desantis-cant-win-the-gop-nomination-or-the-general-election-in-2024-how-trump-plays-into-this-is-allowed/980249/297 "2023-03-06T02:49:58Z")
> **[Kari Lake beats DeSantis in CPAC straw poll to be Trump's running mate](https://www.newsweek.com/kari-lake-beats-desantis-cpac-straw-poll-trumps-running-mate-1785577)** > > DeSantis finished second in two polls at the CPAC conference, including the one behind Kari Lake. Bad news for DeSantis it seems. Unless they are thinking he wouldn’t be a good VP for Trump but would still be a presidential candidate. ---
**Author:** ![fordgt100](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@fordgt100](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fordgt100)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2023, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desantis-cant-win-the-gop-nomination-or-the-general-election-in-2024-how-trump-plays-into-this-is-allowed/980249/298 "2023-03-06T04:34:08Z")
I expect him to not only get the nomination but to win the presidency. Of course, I said that about Hillary Clinton too, but I may be right this time, for once. No one else other than maybe Biden has a ghost of a chance to win the presidency, and just look at the nuts over on the Republican side, Trump included. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2023, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desantis-cant-win-the-gop-nomination-or-the-general-election-in-2024-how-trump-plays-into-this-is-allowed/980249/299 "2023-03-06T13:59:12Z")
I hadn’t thought of her for the veep spot before but crazy Kari is perfect for Donald, especially should he win. Come the '28 election, after he’s decided that he’s entitled to a third term, _she_ won’t be impeding him with any of that pesky constitution bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2023, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desantis-cant-win-the-gop-nomination-or-the-general-election-in-2024-how-trump-plays-into-this-is-allowed/980249/300 "2023-03-06T14:13:20Z")
True. Pence was selected to give TFG a thin veneer of responsibility and a nod to traditional Republicans, but he got in the way when it mattered. He wont make _that_ mistake again. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desantis-cant-win-the-gop-nomination-or-the-general-election-in-2024-how-trump-plays-into-this-is-allowed/980249.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desantis-cant-win-the-gop-nomination-or-the-general-election-in-2024-how-trump-plays-into-this-is-allowed/980249.md?page=16)