# Describe how a 'good' TV or movie character was actually a villian. Show your work **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 3, 2022, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/describe-how-a-good-tv-or-movie-character-was-actually-a-villian-show-your-work/969019 "2022-08-03T12:51:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2022, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/describe-how-a-good-tv-or-movie-character-was-actually-a-villian-show-your-work/969019/41 "2022-08-05T03:46:38Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > Per the Merry Muppet Christmas Movie, it is [canon that the existence of Kermit the Frog caused 9/11 to occur.](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/kermit-did-911) He conspired with Bert. [![](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/c1/Bin_Laden_Bert.png/220px-Bin_Laden_Bert.png) ](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/c1/Bin_Laden_Bert.png/220px-Bin_Laden_Bert.png) ---
**Author:** ![omenran](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omenran/32/3318_2.png) [@omenran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/omenran)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2022, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/describe-how-a-good-tv-or-movie-character-was-actually-a-villian-show-your-work/969019/42 "2022-08-05T07:20:01Z")
How has it taken this long to mention Willy Wonka? Though I suppose deciding if the original movie or remake version is worse. ---
**Author:** ![jimpatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@jimpatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimpatro)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2022, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/describe-how-a-good-tv-or-movie-character-was-actually-a-villian-show-your-work/969019/43 "2022-11-22T23:44:23Z")
That’s sarcasm, right? ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2022, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/describe-how-a-good-tv-or-movie-character-was-actually-a-villian-show-your-work/969019/44 "2022-11-23T00:41:21Z")
Well yes, but I’d still wouldn’t mind having a drink with them. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2022, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/describe-how-a-good-tv-or-movie-character-was-actually-a-villian-show-your-work/969019/45 "2022-11-23T00:45:26Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Glinda still manipulated and endangered a 12 year old girl. If so, then Dumbledore is on this list too. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2022, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/describe-how-a-good-tv-or-movie-character-was-actually-a-villian-show-your-work/969019/46 "2022-11-23T02:18:01Z")
Indiana Jones is an chauvinist imperialistic grave robber whose carelessness destroyed an order of magnitude more artifacts of cultural and historic value that he ever put in a museum. The natives were right to try to fill him full of blowgun darts. Yes, he fought the Nazi’s but if he had just stayed home and let them find the Arc they still would have gotten their faces melted. Also, [28 weeks later,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/28_Weeks_Later) at every point in the movie it is someone doing something heroic out of compassion that lets the virus spread further out of control. If they had shot Alice first thing, or if Don hadn’t asked her for forgiveness, or if soldiers had killed both the infected and uninfected indiscriminately, or left those damned children to die, then Europe could have been saved. I like to think that this was intentional as a counterpoint to the usual way this works in movies, where for example putting the whole ship at risk in order to rescue a stranded child is shown to be the right decision. ---
**Author:** ![Bootb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19b73/32.png) [@Bootb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootb)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2022, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/describe-how-a-good-tv-or-movie-character-was-actually-a-villian-show-your-work/969019/47 "2022-11-23T05:32:42Z")
> [@furryman](#): > > At the end of the day J K Rowling wanted a Cinderella character even if it made absoulutly no sense. A video on Youtube pointed out that the British social system would have never allowed this situation to continue. And yet the books make clear that the entire wizarding world had only tenuous connections to regular British society, and was quite different from it in several respects. I hardly think, therefore, that this is a legitimate criticism. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2022, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/describe-how-a-good-tv-or-movie-character-was-actually-a-villian-show-your-work/969019/48 "2022-11-23T07:35:59Z")
> [@Bootb](#): > > And yet the books make clear that the entire wizarding world had only tenuous connections to regular British society, and was quite different from it in several respects. I hardly think, therefore, that this is a legitimate criticism. I think he was referring to the British social services system. As far as they were concerned, Harry was just a child being fostered (not adopted) by relatives, and thus subject to regular inspections by case workers - who would have immediately noted the tiny room under the stairs with the locks on the outside, and taken immediate action. ---
**Author:** ![dirtball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dirtball/32/18772_2.png) [@dirtball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dirtball)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2022, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/describe-how-a-good-tv-or-movie-character-was-actually-a-villian-show-your-work/969019/49 "2022-11-23T10:18:15Z")
Let’s point those critics to _A Series of Unfortunate Events_ and see what they make of it. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2022, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/describe-how-a-good-tv-or-movie-character-was-actually-a-villian-show-your-work/969019/50 "2022-11-23T11:15:49Z")
Gilligan was acting dumb on purpose. It was a ruse. In reality he wanted to stay on the island, and purposefully sabotaged all efforts to escape. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2022, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/describe-how-a-good-tv-or-movie-character-was-actually-a-villian-show-your-work/969019/51 "2022-11-23T12:22:08Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > If so, then Dumbledore is on this list too. “Hmm, I have a working time machine in my desk. I’ve decided that I won’t use it to try to keep the school safe – I’ll just lend it out to students occasionally!” ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2022, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/describe-how-a-good-tv-or-movie-character-was-actually-a-villian-show-your-work/969019/52 "2022-11-23T12:47:40Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Gilligan was acting dumb on purpose. It was a ruse. In reality he wanted to stay on the island, and purposefully sabotaged all efforts to escape. Yeah, something weird was up with Gilligan. He kept sneaking off to meet with some mysterious group on the other side of the island the rest of the castaways only referred to as “The Others”. Who turned out to be the Harlem Globetrotters. ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2022, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/describe-how-a-good-tv-or-movie-character-was-actually-a-villian-show-your-work/969019/53 "2022-11-23T13:27:15Z")
It should be trivially obvious that Poirot is a serial killer. Everywhere he goes people drop like flies, and he allowed (at least) twelve other killers to escape justice. And finally he admits to being a murderer in a posthumous confession. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2022, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/describe-how-a-good-tv-or-movie-character-was-actually-a-villian-show-your-work/969019/54 "2022-11-23T13:58:47Z")
I think the results speak for themselves. By the end of the movie, Glinda is in control of the East, West, North, and is established in Oz itself. Now whether she’s an evil mastermind (Hitler) or just a schemer who took advantage of events (Putin) is open to debate, but Glinda is _obviously_ Not A Good Witch. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2022, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/describe-how-a-good-tv-or-movie-character-was-actually-a-villian-show-your-work/969019/55 "2022-11-23T15:15:52Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > but Glinda is _obviously_ Not A Good Witch. Well, she’s good at being a witch. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2022, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/describe-how-a-good-tv-or-movie-character-was-actually-a-villian-show-your-work/969019/56 "2022-11-23T15:41:21Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > Well, she’s good at being a witch. Ha! Nice reversal of “I’m a very good man, but I’m a very bad wizard.” However, since movie-Oz is All Just A Dream, does that mean that all of movie-Glinda’s schemes and manipulations ultimately came from Dorothy? Or, if Dorothy’s brain was making it all up as it went along, that Glinda really didn’t plan anything or know anything before Dorothy herself found it out? ---
**Author:** ![CaveMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cavemike/32/16379_2.png) [@CaveMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaveMike)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2022, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/describe-how-a-good-tv-or-movie-character-was-actually-a-villian-show-your-work/969019/57 "2022-11-23T19:43:43Z")
> [@eburacum45](#): > > It should be trivially obvious that Poirot is a serial killer. And what better way to escape the noose than to stick around and ‘detect’ the killer? It’s a plausible theory, but my money is on Hastings. Playing dumb around Poirot allows him to stay one step ahead while Poirot’s vanity won’t allow him to see reality. ---
**Author:** ![zbuzz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e19b73/32.png) [@zbuzz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zbuzz)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2022, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/describe-how-a-good-tv-or-movie-character-was-actually-a-villian-show-your-work/969019/58 "2022-11-24T05:39:00Z")
> [@eburacum45](#): > > It should be trivially obvious that Poirot is a serial killer. Everywhere he goes people drop like flies Sort of the same deal for Father Brown. So many violent murders in such a small English village and he just happens to be the one to discover more than a few them. Then he invariably will tamper with the crime scene evidence or employ his lock picking skills to commit breaking and entering. He then threatens others with eternal damnation if they don’t confess to the murders that he himself has committed. And don’t get me started on how many people Mrs. McCarthy has poisoned with her award-winning strawberry scones. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2022, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/describe-how-a-good-tv-or-movie-character-was-actually-a-villian-show-your-work/969019/59 "2022-11-24T14:13:50Z")
My example is the protagonist from the TV show _[Continuum](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuum_(TV_series))_. The premise: > The plot centres around the conflict between a group of terrorists from the year 2077 who time travel to [Vancouver](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vancouver), [British Columbia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Columbia), in 2012 and a police officer who unintentionally accompanies them. In spite of being many years early, the terrorist group decides to continue its violent campaign to stop corporations of the future from replacing governments, while the police officer endeavours to stop them without revealing to everyone that she and the terrorists are from the future. The show starts with a pretty standard “Bad Guys escape, Hero Cop must track them down” plot, but note the bit about “its violent campaign to stop corporations of the future from replacing governments”? Yeah, over the course of the series, we see several scenes set in the future, which make it abundantly clear that the future is a repressive authoritarian state, run by corporations for their own profit. The “Terrorists” are really a resistance group trying to break this control, and the protagonist is a cop who is fighting to support the repressive state. But she’s so deeply indoctrinated in the corporate government mindset that she never quite clues in that _she’s the bad guy._ ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2022, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/describe-how-a-good-tv-or-movie-character-was-actually-a-villian-show-your-work/969019/60 "2022-11-24T15:19:39Z")
The couple on Haven were the absolute worst. Willing to blow up the entire planet because they “wuv” each other. Yeah I hate watched the show. Lol [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/describe-how-a-good-tv-or-movie-character-was-actually-a-villian-show-your-work/969019.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/describe-how-a-good-tv-or-movie-character-was-actually-a-villian-show-your-work/969019.md?page=4)