# Describe real German beer to an American **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** beer\ **Created:** [March 8, 2010, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/describe-real-german-beer-to-an-american/531778 "2010-03-08T22:52:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2010, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/describe-real-german-beer-to-an-american/531778/41 "2010-03-11T00:18:37Z")
> [@Teacake](#): > > I did read that, and thank you. I just thought a real live English person living in England should chime in and help to dispel the ignorance! As has also been mentioned, various beverages under the loose heading “beer” may be served ice cold, chilled, or cellar temperature; but this image of actual warm beer riles me. Never once, in many years of drinking in pubs, bars, inns and hotels all over the UK, have I been served beer which wasn’t at least cool. Ugh. Warm beer. Ugh. Hey… I’ve had some fairly warm “cellar temperature” beer in the UK, but it was late July/August 2003, so I’ll give the barmen some leeway. Outside of that, cellar temperature is what… 50 degrees Fahrenheit? Not exactly the usual ice-cold that draft Bud or Miller is, but not the blood-warm brew most people imagine when they hear about “warm beer”. Honestly, a good bitter is better at the higher temperature than the lower; the flavors open up a lot more. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2010, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/describe-real-german-beer-to-an-american/531778/42 "2010-03-11T01:17:23Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Maybe it was 1.040… If I had to guess, the 1.040 - 1.045 range sounds about right for your typical 5% abv American lager. I wouldn’t be surprised if Miller Lite, Bud Light, and the other light beers have a 1.030-ish O.G. That would sound about right to me for those. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2010, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/describe-real-german-beer-to-an-american/531778/43 "2010-03-11T04:25:26Z")
> [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](#): > > Everyone has their own opinion on mattters of taste—I happen to like both Rainier and Olde Style, (though neither brand is sold in Utah any more, so I typically drink Pabst Blue Ribbon or Olympia these daze) and I also love Krombacher, Erdinger and Konig Pils, and enjoyed them (and countless other brands) to no end during my various visits to Germany… Are Rainier and Olympia still around? I thought they’d been gone for years. ---
**Author:** ![MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MPB_in_Salt_Lake)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2010, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/describe-real-german-beer-to-an-american/531778/44 "2010-03-11T04:46:35Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Are Rainier and Olympia still around? I thought they’d been gone for years. Olympia is still going strong, and is sold here in Utah (the 3.2% version) for around as low as 7 bucks for a 12 pack… I think it tastes much better than Budwieser, Coors or Miller (faint praise indeed, I know) and it’s a bit less expensive as well. I haven’t had a Rainier for a couple of years, but as I understand it, it’s still being brewed under contract by one of the major breweries since the original Rainier (off the I-5 in Seattle) brewery went under. ---
**Author:** ![WarmNPrickly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d78d45/32.png) [@WarmNPrickly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WarmNPrickly)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2010, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/describe-real-german-beer-to-an-american/531778/45 "2010-03-11T15:59:02Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Yeah, it irritates me, too. I’m not entirely sure where the idea that it’s served warm comes from. There was one small brewpub out here in the suburbs, which actually did serve a British-style cask-conditioned ESB at room temperature. I’m talking around 22-24C. The server warned me it was going to be room temperature, but I just assumed she was confused and meant cellar temp like every other cask-conditioned beer in the city: maybe 11-13C. Nope. Literally room temperature. I’ve never had a beer served like that before or since. It comes from the fact that beer in England is often served considerably warmer than in America. This notion is correct. I certainly had what I considered to be warm beer in London. If you were to serve beer that temperature in the US it would be called warm. That said, London had the absolute best beer I’ve had. Cellar temperature bitters are the nectar of the Gods. It is also served warm, and I’m guessing it would not taste as good served cold. Strangely, I’ve also found Old Style is best served warm. Not room temperature, just warm. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2010, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/describe-real-german-beer-to-an-american/531778/46 "2010-03-11T16:52:58Z")
> [@WarmNPrickly](#): > > It comes from the fact that beer in England is often served considerably warmer than in America. This notion is correct. I certainly had what I considered to be warm beer in London. If you were to serve beer that temperature in the US it would be called warm. > > That said, London had the absolute best beer I’ve had. Cellar temperature bitters are the nectar of the Gods. It is also served warm, and I’m guessing it would not taste as good served cold. Strangely, I’ve also found Old Style is best served warm. Not room temperature, just warm. Matter of semantics/expectations then. When I had my first few beers in England, I was surprised they weren’t warm, as that’s what I had been told all my life. They weren’t ice cold, either (well, the lagers were), but the ales weren’t what I would have described as warm. They’re definitely cool to the lips. ---
**Author:** ![Teacake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Teacake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Teacake)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2010, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/describe-real-german-beer-to-an-american/531778/47 "2010-03-11T17:09:22Z")
Obviously lager is served cold. You’re talking about American lagers being cold - well, yes, they are here too. Bitter, on the other hand, isn’t supposed to be ice cold. Nor, however, is it supposed to be warm. Warm means that it doesn’t feel cool in your mouth. A properly cellared beer will be cool, pleasant and refreshing to drink. Those of you Americans who believe in warm beer - was it by any chance served to you (or the person who told you) in some twee olde worlde hostelrie in some tourist area, or perhaps in a chain pub in London? You blow your chances of good beer by limiting yourselves to those. If the bar staff are under 25 and are taking it in turns to change barrels, or if nobody’s changing the barrels, or if the only locals you can see are wearing suit trousers and red braces, then just quietly slip off your bar stool and go somewhere else. ---
**Author:** ![Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellis_Aponte_Jr)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2010, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/describe-real-german-beer-to-an-american/531778/48 "2010-03-11T17:13:23Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Are Rainier and Olympia still around? I thought they’d been gone for years. These are what the beer writer Duane Swierczynski calls “zombie beers.” Once proud regional brews now owned by some large company that “markets” them while farming out the brewing to another large company that has nothing historically to do with the product. Made cheaply, probably don’t taste anything like they once did - basically they’re packages with names on them that drinkers may remember. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2010, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/describe-real-german-beer-to-an-american/531778/49 "2010-03-11T18:10:25Z")
> [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](#): > > I haven’t had a Rainier for a couple of years, but as I understand it, it’s still being brewed under contract by one of the major breweries since the original Rainier (off the I-5 in Seattle) brewery went under. I remember the big, red ‘R’ by the freeway, and their TV commercials were legendary. I even remember taking the tour of the Olympia brewery with my family when I was a kid. I’m not much of a beer drinker, though. Even if I still lived out there, I doubt that I’d have noticed that their products (in some form or another) were still in the stores. ---
**Author:** ![ministryman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@ministryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ministryman)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2010, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/describe-real-german-beer-to-an-american/531778/50 "2010-03-11T19:53:22Z")
German Beer (as with most of the rest of the world), has real ingredients. no artificial aything. You taste the mix of barley, hops, and whatever else the brewmaster mixed in. American beer (with one exception that escapes me, but the Germans gave it high praise) is sanitized and sterilized for less finincky palates. American beer is to beer what Taco Bell is to Mexican food. I spent two weeks in Canada on business, and had a chance to sample real Molson. The only American beers I could drink after that were microbrewery-made, dark and unfiltered. Everything else tasted like water. ---
**Author:** ![MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MPB_in_Salt_Lake)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2010, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/describe-real-german-beer-to-an-american/531778/51 "2010-03-11T20:04:26Z")
> [@ministryman](#): > > I spent two weeks in Canada on business, and had a chance to sample real Molson. WOW—Two WHOLE weeks in CANADA!!! Your hard won beer expertise has me in awe—What a wise, intrepid explorer and connoisseur you are. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2010, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/describe-real-german-beer-to-an-american/531778/52 "2010-03-11T20:41:36Z")
> [@ministryman](#): > > German Beer (as with most of the rest of the world), has real ingredients. no artificial aything. You taste the mix of barley, hops, and whatever else the brewmaster mixed in. Most American beer certainly has “real” ingredients. What are you talking about exactly here? > [@](#): > > American beer (with one exception that escapes me, but the Germans gave it high praise) is sanitized and sterilized for less finincky palates. Once again, what exactly do you mean? > [@](#): > > American beer is to beer what Taco Bell is to Mexican food. That’s plain ridiculous. You can maybe make that comparison if you limit “American beer” to non-craft macrobrews like Budmillcoors. And even then, you have many of the traditional macrobreweries branching out to craft beers. > [@](#): > > I spent two weeks in Canada on business, and had a chance to sample real Molson. The only American beers I could drink after that were microbrewery-made, dark and unfiltered. Everything else tasted like water. I dunno. The Canadian macrobrews taste only slightly better than American macrobrews to me, if at all better. I really don’t understand why anyone would brag about Molson’s or Labatt’s or whatnot. I much prefer Sam Adams or Yuengling to Molson’s. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2010, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/describe-real-german-beer-to-an-american/531778/53 "2010-03-11T20:51:20Z")
_Molson’s_? Blech. They and Coors belong together. ---
**Author:** ![MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MPB_in_Salt_Lake)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2010, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/describe-real-german-beer-to-an-american/531778/54 "2010-03-11T21:10:05Z")
For the record, I actually quite like Molson and most other Canadian beers for that matter (as I too have visited exotic, mysterious Canada, where I probably have spent a total of two months or so—A beautiful place, for sure) I dont like his smug, know-it-all attitude, as beer (like all matters of taste) is highly subjective, and to denegrate all American brews based on two weeks in Canada is assinine in the extreme… ---
**Author:** ![ministryman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@ministryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ministryman)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2010, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/describe-real-german-beer-to-an-american/531778/55 "2010-03-11T21:42:52Z")
Sigh…you would think I called all you mindless, boorish, tasteless cretins…It’s beer, FFS. In the interest of brevity (and also to stir the pot), I omitted that I have traveled to Europe and South America and Asia, and drank more than my share of beers from those lands. Two weeks in Canada no more makes me a beer expert than two weeks driving in rush hour traffic makes me a NASCAR Driver. But I have also spent my fair share of time in pubs here in the U.S. that feature a minimum of 20 taps. Macrobreweries, because they are in the business of mass production, produce, IMLTHO, crap. Butwiper? Dog. PBR? Dog. Labatt’s? Dog. Stella Artois? Shyt. Sam Adams? Swill. Do people enjoy them? Yes, otherwise they wouldn’t sell. There are people who will turn their noses up at a glass of E&J Gallo wine from the jug in favor of a Chateau Latour. Who cares? If you like it, then drink it. There was a winery in Healdsburg California that sold grape juice made with the wine grapes. No added sugar. Initially, it tasted like syrup. Once your taste buds were reacclimated to real grape juice, Welches was thin, and tasted like water. The OP asked what the difference was between American Beers and German beers. Apparently, I did not answer it in the spirit that the rest of you liked. If you are used to drinking ice cold Bud Light or MGD, and you are handed a Guinness (I know it’s English; don’t start) at room temperature, you are probably going to spew. I maintain that it is the same for the German Beers. ---
**Author:** ![Teacake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Teacake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Teacake)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2010, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/describe-real-german-beer-to-an-american/531778/56 "2010-03-11T21:50:19Z")
Guinness is Irish, for fuck’s sake. And NO BEER IS SERVED AT ROOM TEMPERATURE. ---
**Author:** ![ministryman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@ministryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ministryman)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2010, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/describe-real-german-beer-to-an-american/531778/57 "2010-03-11T21:56:34Z")
> [@Teacake](#): > > Guinness is Irish, for fuck’s sake. And NO BEER IS SERVED AT ROOM TEMPERATURE. English, Irish, what’s the difference :D? The beer rocks! In 2000, [Realbeer.com](http://Realbeer.com) ran this helpful guide: The proper temperature is essential for beer enjoyment. A beer served too cold will withhold most of its flavor. But while serving beer at room temperature brings out the flavors and aromas and is appropriate when judging beer, most drinkers prefer something cooler. Some general guidelines: - Serve fruit beers at 40-50° F. - Serve wheat beers and pale lagers at 45-50° F. \*\*- Serve pale ales and amber or dark lagers at 50-55° F. - Serve strong ales, such as barley wines and Belgian ales, at 50-55° F. - Serve dark ales, including porters and stouts, at 55-60° F.\*\* Ahem… ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2010, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/describe-real-german-beer-to-an-american/531778/58 "2010-03-11T22:10:57Z")
> [@ministryman](#): > > Macrobreweries, because they are in the business of mass production, produce, IMLTHO, crap. Butwiper? Dog. PBR? Dog. Labatt’s? Dog. Stella Artois? Shyt. Sam Adams? Swill. Sam Adams is not swill. Tastes vary, but it certainly is a well-respected-enough beer among beer snobs, especially their smaller batch brews–some of which are among the best examples of their class. Still, their Boston Lager is one of my favorite lagers – better than most German lagers I’ve had. The only lagers I prefer are Czech pilseners. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2010, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/describe-real-german-beer-to-an-american/531778/59 "2010-03-11T22:12:24Z")
> [@ministryman](#): > > English, Irish, what’s the difference :D? The beer rocks! > > In 2000, [Realbeer.com](http://Realbeer.com) ran this helpful guide: > > The proper temperature is essential for beer enjoyment. A beer served too cold will withhold most of its flavor. But while serving beer at room temperature brings out the flavors and aromas and is appropriate when judging beer, most drinkers prefer something cooler. Some general guidelines: > > - Serve fruit beers at 40-50° F. > - Serve wheat beers and pale lagers at 45-50° F. > \*\*- Serve pale ales and amber or dark lagers at 50-55° F. > - Serve strong ales, such as barley wines and Belgian ales, at 50-55° F. > - Serve dark ales, including porters and stouts, at 55-60° F.\*\* > > Ahem… Ahem what? That ain’t room temperature for most people. 68-78 is the general range. This entire thread we’ve repeated, 50-55F for most ales. Not room temp. Even the 60 of porters is not room temp, and still is slightly cool to the lips. ---
**Author:** ![Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellis_Aponte_Jr)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2010, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/describe-real-german-beer-to-an-american/531778/60 "2010-03-11T22:22:27Z")
For what it’s worth I love a lot of German lagers, particularly the ones called “Helles” over there, which taste smooth & malty, yet are not heavy. I believe this is a Munich style, or Bavarian more generally. Hofbrau Original is a fine example (I think called Hofbrau Helles in Germany). It’s funny how this style is not pushed much as imports here, while wheat beers and heavy “Dunkel Lagers” are. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/describe-real-german-beer-to-an-american/531778.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/describe-real-german-beer-to-an-american/531778.md?page=4)