# "Desecration" of the Eucharist **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 18, 2011, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desecration-of-the-eucharist/575144 "2011-03-18T13:09:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desecration-of-the-eucharist/575144/81 "2011-03-18T19:59:24Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Let’s say that Myers was imprecise with his language or got it wrong. The question is, who gives a shit? Is anyone forcing you to read his blog? Is anyone a victim here? The issue isn’t whether we ought to give a shit, the issue is the guy’s motives for pulling this stunt. Using a deliberately distorted and inflammatory account (I don’t for a moment seriously believe a university professor doesn’t actually know about WW2) indicates that he’s more motivated by “anti-Catholicism” than “anti-bullshit”. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desecration-of-the-eucharist/575144/82 "2011-03-18T20:06:02Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > ncidentally, you never answered the question. When you agreed with Myers statement that German was “a Catholic nation” was that because you hadn’t read what Myers actually wrote I didn’t read exactly what he wrote plus I didn’t really give a shit because it’s not especially relevant to the discussion. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desecration-of-the-eucharist/575144/83 "2011-03-18T20:06:54Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > My own view is look what was done to Jesus, that was the desecration of the host, over and done with. In Jesus’ words 'It is finished". Jesus is raised in glory it is not possible to desecrate the host any more. Which is irreleeveant, because Catholcis don’t claim that it hurts Jesus. What we do claim is that it is sacred, holy essence handed down by God himself. This man is an asshole who meant insult Catholicism and many other Christians, too), entered a church fraudulently (he is invited to Mass, but taking the Host is a huge no-no and he was being deliberately deceptive), stole what does not actually belong to him as personal property, and then deliberately desecrated it. That may not be criminal, but it is ugly and depraved. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desecration-of-the-eucharist/575144/84 "2011-03-18T20:09:45Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > The issue isn’t whether we ought to give a shit, the issue is the guy’s motives for pulling this stunt. No, his motives are of no relevance whatsoever. The thread topi is supposed to be whether Catholics like Bill Donhue are hypocrites for whining about it. And Myers isn’t anti-Catholic, he’s anti-religion in general. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desecration-of-the-eucharist/575144/85 "2011-03-18T20:14:53Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > Which is irreleeveant, because Catholcis don’t claim that it hurts Jesus. What we do claim is that it is sacred, holy essence handed down by God himself. What does this actually mean? What exactly is “sacred holy essence,” and what injury is done to mankind by putting a nail in it? > [@](#): > > This man is an asshole who meant insult Catholicism and many other Christians, too), entered a church fraudulently (he is invited to Mass, but taking the Host is a huge no-no and he was being deliberately deceptive), stole what does not actually belong to him as personal property, and then deliberately desecrated it. That may not be criminal, but it is ugly and depraved. Do you have a cite that he acquired this host this way? Calling it “depraved” is ridiculous. It’s just a piece of bread. The word “depraved” should be reserved for acts that actually cause some sort of injury to other people. This kind of hyperbole is very difficult to take seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desecration-of-the-eucharist/575144/86 "2011-03-18T20:16:51Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > No, his motives are of no relevance whatsoever. The thread topi is supposed to be whether Catholics like Bill Donhue are hypocrites for whining about it. > > And Myers isn’t anti-Catholic, he’s anti-religion in general. His motives are clearly relevant to the OP’s issue. Catholics have every right to “whine” about a display of anti-Catholic bigotry (and do not display any “hypocrisy” in so doing), and his motives and actions in pulling this stunt demonstrate reasonably clearly that this is exactly what it was. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desecration-of-the-eucharist/575144/87 "2011-03-18T20:21:57Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > His motives are clearly relevant to the OP’s issue. they really aren’t, though. Myers’ motives do not alter the question about hypocrisy. > [@](#): > > Catholics have every right to “whine” about a display of anti-Catholic bigotry (and do not display any “hypocrisy” in so doing), and his motives and actions in pulling this stunt demonstrate reasonably clearly that this is exactly what it was. No one has said they don’t have the right, but all of their whining is still purely voluntary and recreational and arguably hypocritical. They aren’t actually being injured. Sorry. Nobody is making them read PZ Myers’ blog. They should rub some cream on their butts and move on. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desecration-of-the-eucharist/575144/88 "2011-03-18T20:27:20Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I didn’t read exactly what he wrote. Well, thanks for admitting that you don’t actually read what people write when responding to their posts, though I must say it doesn’t help your credibility. That said, it’s pretty clear from this post that you were claiming that it was “a fact” that Germany was a Catholic nation. > [@](#): > > Quote: > Originally Posted by Malthus > If he’s “anti bullshit” rather than “anti Catholic”, what’s he doing characterizing WW2 as “the last time a Catholic nation rose up to slaughter its non-Christian citizenry”? > > Because it’s a fact? So either you didn’t know the truth or didn’t care what the truth actually was. Good to know. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desecration-of-the-eucharist/575144/89 "2011-03-18T20:31:24Z")
You can talk about the actual topic now if you want. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desecration-of-the-eucharist/575144/90 "2011-03-18T20:40:00Z")
Arguably, wouldn’t the last time a “Catholic nation” engaged in large-scale religion-based violence be Serbia off-and-on through the 1990s? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desecration-of-the-eucharist/575144/91 "2011-03-18T21:04:19Z")
That was Serbian Orthodox. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desecration-of-the-eucharist/575144/92 "2011-03-18T21:07:35Z")
Well, Catholic Lite, whatever. It’s certainly closer then 20th-century Germany. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desecration-of-the-eucharist/575144/93 "2011-03-18T21:12:59Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’m most interested in the reaction from Catholics and other Christians: most seemed to be horrified (for example [http://blog.beliefnet.com/crunchycon/2008/07/pz-myers-desecrates-the-euchar.html](http://blog.beliefnet.com/crunchycon/2008/07/pz-myers-desecrates-the-euchar.html) and [http://www.catholicleague.org/release.php?id=1465](http://www.catholicleague.org/release.php?id=1465)). I don’t find much in either of those links to justify the claim that most Catholics and other Christians are “horrified”. The first link is from a Christian who seems to find the incident funny, the second from one a Catholic who seems irritated. Where’s the “horrified”? And how exactly are you judging of most of the world’s ~2.2 billion Christians after looking at only two personal reactions? Nonetheless, to slightly expand your sample size, I am not horrified nor irritated nor amused, but just thankful that I’m not as desperate for publicity as Mr. Myers is. (Then again [my denomination lets dogs take communion](http://www.anglican-mainstream.net/2010/07/22/church-sparks-controversy-after-dog-given-communion/), so I guess our approach isn’t the same as that of the Catholics.) ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desecration-of-the-eucharist/575144/94 "2011-03-18T21:16:49Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Well, Catholic Lite, whatever. It’s certainly closer then 20th-century Germany. The war in Yugoslavia in the 90’s was started by Slobidan Milosevic, who was an atheist. Like his predecessor Tito, he had a particularly strong penchant for violence against Catholics. I, too, am pretty puzzled by any claim that Catholics have waged mass religious violence in the past century, but then again that sort of bizarre claim seems to come pretty standard from those who have dedicated their lives to hating Catholics. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desecration-of-the-eucharist/575144/95 "2011-03-18T21:20:31Z")
Bill Donohue is definitely a hypocrite, by the way. He himself has made some pretty ridiculous antisemitic and homophobic comments. I don’t think he really speaks for many Catholics, though. His Catholic League is self created and has no affilaition or endorsement from the Catholic Church. It’s just a money making scam for him. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desecration-of-the-eucharist/575144/96 "2011-03-18T21:22:37Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > The war in Yugoslavia in the 90’s was started by Slobidan Milosevic, who was an atheist. What a load of disingenuous crap. The Bosnian genocide was a state sponsored genocide of Muslims by Christians. Don’t try to say it wasn’t. It was. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desecration-of-the-eucharist/575144/97 "2011-03-18T21:33:15Z")
Perhaps I’m not reading you correctly. Are you saying that Slobidan Milosevic was not dictator of Yugoslavia at the time? Or are you saying that he was a Christian? ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desecration-of-the-eucharist/575144/98 "2011-03-18T21:33:47Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > In his case, how exactly did this person obtain the magic bread? Normally, those are handed out in religious ceremonies, and only to believers. Intruding on someone elses’ religious ceremonies to take their holy symbols is definitely “intruding”. Communion Hosts are generally distributed for the express purpose of communicating the faithful at that time and place, not to be removed from the premises and used for whatever purpose the recipient wishes. Think of it as akjin to an on-premises liquor license or an all-you-can-eat buffet: the bottle of beer you receive at the first, the plate of food you take at the second, are to be consumed there, not taken with you when you leave – in fact, that is generally expressly prohibited. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I simply do not agree that he insulted them. Not sharing a belief is not an insult. “Not sharing a belief” is indeed not an insult. Going beyond not sharing a belief to treat with contempt what the believers consider should be treated with reverence, however wrong you may find their belief, is very likely an insult to them. I do not share your belief in your own expertise. That is not in itself an insult. Taking you to task for it with Pit-style vitriol here in GD would in fact be an insult to you and to our fellow Dopers; doing so in the Pit, probably still an insult to you. (I have no intention of doing so; I’ve found that an analogy to an aspect of someone’s own worldview often helps bring home a point, especially a clarification or the drawing of a distinction.) ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desecration-of-the-eucharist/575144/99 "2011-03-18T21:36:33Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Perhaps I’m not reading you correctly. Are you saying that Slobidan Milosevic was not dictator of Yugoslavia at the time? Or are you saying that he was a Christian? IMO, he’s saying that whatever the beliefs or lack thereof of Milosevic, radicals among the Serbian Orthodox were at the heart of much of the atrocities. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desecration-of-the-eucharist/575144/100 "2011-03-18T21:39:59Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Perhaps I’m not reading you correctly. Are you saying that Slobidan Milosevic was not dictator of Yugoslavia at the time? Or are you saying that he was a Christian? I’m saying it’;s irrelevant how Milosevic identified himself. The genocide was committed by Christians against Muslims and Miolosevic deliberately appealed to that religionsism. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desecration-of-the-eucharist/575144.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desecration-of-the-eucharist/575144.md?page=6)