# Desperate Housewives 4/10 - Mudd's vindication (Spoilers and speculation) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 11, 2005, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desperate-housewives-4-10-mudds-vindication-spoilers-and-speculation/298746 "2005-04-11T05:00:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2005, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desperate-housewives-4-10-mudds-vindication-spoilers-and-speculation/298746/21 "2005-04-11T21:38:47Z")
As for Zach’s memory, I thought it was mostly of a body and a lot of blood, which is consistent with his parents’ cutting up the body of the woman in the chest. The part about a little girl might have been suggested by his parents, or developed in his head. (By the way, where is it established that she was an investigator? Is it possible that she was actually Zach’s mother and that Mike’s employer is seeking his long-lost grandchild?) And here is an article about Bree’s son Andrew from IMDB news from March 13: [SPOILER]“Desperate Housewives actor Shawn Pyfrom has hit out at speculation his TV character Andrew Van De Camp is gay. The 18-year-old admits that Andrew indulges in sexual experimentation with one of his male friends in a swimming pool at the end of an episode cliffhanger - but he urges viewers not to jump to conclusions about the outc ome. Pyfrom says, ‘My character doesn’t come out because he is not gay. He has a gay experience but he is just experimenting right now. But keep watching and you’ll see what happens with my character.’” So is there more to be revealed about his character, or was he in denial about his character’s sexuality, or did things change after this interview?[/SPOILER] ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2005, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desperate-housewives-4-10-mudds-vindication-spoilers-and-speculation/298746/22 "2005-04-11T21:58:47Z")
> [@Dewey Finn](#): > > (By the way, where is it established that she was an investigator? Is it possible that she was actually Zach’s mother and that Mike’s employer is seeking his long-lost grandchild?) I agree that the dead woman is Zach’s bio-mother and Paul just told him it was a PI because he thought Zach could deal with “dead PI come to take you from the only family you ever knew” better than “we killed your mom and chopped her up and put her in your toy chest.” That by the way is what really creeps me out about it; there wasn’t anything else in the house to put the body in, you had to take the child’s toy chest? But I don’t think that Mike’s missing what’s-her-name is going to turn out to be Zach’s mom. For one she looked too young from the photo to have a child Zach’s age and for another I would hate for the storylines to be wrapped together like that. I think the Mary Alice mystery is going to be resolved this season and Mike’s missing what’s-her-name will be next season’s big mystery. ---
**Author:** ![DMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMark)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2005, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desperate-housewives-4-10-mudds-vindication-spoilers-and-speculation/298746/23 "2005-04-11T22:12:25Z")
My theory is that Zach/Dana is actually the grandson of the guy paying the plumber to find his dead daughter. Perhaps Zach’s dad will be sent away to prison, leaving Zach a very wealty, but odd, neighbor. And I am still placing money on Bree doing a 180 degree turn and become PFLAG mother of the year, and then going out and trying to find a suitable beau for her son. ---
**Author:** ![PastAllReason](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f07891/32.png) [@PastAllReason](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastAllReason)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2005, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desperate-housewives-4-10-mudds-vindication-spoilers-and-speculation/298746/24 "2005-04-12T00:17:05Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > … I’m asking myself more and more why I should watch a show where there are no redeeming characters who I actually care about. I’m starting to find myself rooting for Paul to systematically dispose of the protagonists of the show. I don’t think that’s a good thing… I stopped watching Desperate Housewives a couple of months ago or so for all the reasons you outlined. The last episode I watched was the one where Felicity Huffman’s character perpetuated the misunderstanding that one of her sons was dying into order to get into a yoga class. And kept on and on at it until she got caught. I hadn’t been much liking her before that, and that was last straw-ish to me. And the only one I still liked was Susan, and for me her character wasn’t reason enough to continue watching. So I’ve tuned it out. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2005, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desperate-housewives-4-10-mudds-vindication-spoilers-and-speculation/298746/25 "2005-04-12T01:49:21Z")
The scene with Carlos bruising Gabi’s wrist and forcing her to sign the document really bothered me. Things are getting truly ugly between them. I’d rather watch scenes involving the other wives and their families any time. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2005, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desperate-housewives-4-10-mudds-vindication-spoilers-and-speculation/298746/26 "2005-04-12T15:40:33Z")
> [@DMark](#): > > And I am still placing money on Bree doing a 180 degree turn and become PFLAG mother of the year, and then going out and trying to find a suitable beau for her son. I think this is very likely… I suspect that the reason she freaked out at the camp wasn’t the relevation that Andrew thinks he might be gay, but because she stormed in, made a big hairy thing out of herself, and then discovered that the situation was completely different than she had assumed. Given a little time to get over her mortification (at her behavior), she’ll be OK with Andrew. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2005, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desperate-housewives-4-10-mudds-vindication-spoilers-and-speculation/298746/27 "2005-04-12T16:04:35Z")
> [@rackman](#): > > Was anyone else thinking when Bree was spanking Lynette’s child, that it was kind of ironic that her husband wants a little spanking, and can’t get it, but the neighbor kids can get all they want? Tea. Everywhere. I also loved the change of her expression as she sat and listened to the two other mothers at “boot camp” talking about raising their kids as she is obviously thinking to herself that she’s done so much better than these two. It’s pretty clear she feels completely vindicated after hearing the story about CPS visiting that other mom. The cameos by Leslie Ann Warren and Bob Newhart were wonderful and probably the most enjoyable part of this week’s show. I was pretty impressed that they confronted the spanking issue. I’ve been thinking for weeks “what those boys really need is for their mom to tan their hides.” They know exactly who’s in control. Them. Eventually, she’s going to have to spank them. Knowing how her mother handled everything, I doubt she’ll ever let herself sink to the level of “beating the crap out of them” all the time. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2005, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desperate-housewives-4-10-mudds-vindication-spoilers-and-speculation/298746/28 "2005-04-12T17:07:07Z")
> [@Maureen](#): > > Knowing how her mother handled everything, I doubt she’ll ever let herself sink to the level of “beating the crap out of them” all the time. I don’t know. I’m hoping they explore this a bit more. I’m thinking one day Lynette completely loses it and does something inappropriate, like slapping one of the boys in the face or something, then she runs away to the soccer field again. There is a happy medium in disciplining children. Lynette hasn’t found it yet. ---
**Author:** ![Cyros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a698b9/32.png) [@Cyros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyros)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2005, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desperate-housewives-4-10-mudds-vindication-spoilers-and-speculation/298746/29 "2005-04-12T19:37:46Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > I don’t know. I’m hoping they explore this a bit more. I’m thinking one day Lynette completely loses it and does something inappropriate, like slapping one of the boys in the face or something, then she runs away to the soccer field again. > > There is a happy medium in disciplining children. Lynette hasn’t found it yet. Lynette had the answer! The nanny had no problem controlling the kids and I’m sure she could have given her some pointers. Too bad Lynette was such a jealous, insecure freak and got rid of her. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2005, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desperate-housewives-4-10-mudds-vindication-spoilers-and-speculation/298746/30 "2005-04-12T21:34:58Z")
From this [ridiculously long uk vbb thread](http://forum.digitalspy.co.uk/board/showthread.php?t=193647&page=56&pp=25): > [@Maxxy](#): > > But most parents of an intersexual child have surgery on their child to make the child either a boy or a girl. It can be difficult to decide which sex the child is meant to be–and that will come into importance later. But Angela decides to make their kid a boy. […] > > Now, though, they’re known around as the parents of the hermaphrodite. There are real cases of parents of intersexual kids who are treated weirdly by everyone who knows the truth. And the intersexuals themselves could be in for a world of trouble as they grow up. > > So Angela and her husband get the hell out of Dodge and head to Wisteria Lane in Fairview. […] They start over. No one knows the truth about Zach. Until…he’s about 4. That’s the age Zach claimed he was (or thereabouts) when he went downstairs and found his parents cleaning up blood. But it wasn’t a baby’s blood: it was the blood of someone who found out the truth. Who is it? I don’t know. It could be Mike’s Deidre–but has she been missing for about a decade? I don’t know about that for sure. But someone finds out. > > Remember what Zach told Julie? He heard his parents yelling out his name, and Dana’s name. He doesn’t remember Dana…he can’t see Dana in his memories anyway. So far as we know he’s never told Julie or anyone else that he remembered his mother being pregnant with another child, or having any experiences at all with a newborn, so it’s only Zach’s guess that he had a sibling. Well, that would make sense, if he is Dana. > > Zach told Julie he went downstairs and saw his parents cleaning up the blood. My guess: it wasn’t the blood of a baby (we know that the pool’s contents had an adult female in it). It was a woman, let’s say Deidre. Maybe Deidre was someone local who’d stumbled on the truth, like Mrs. Huber. Or someone from their old life who’d run into them on Wisteria Lane, someone who could tell everyone what they knew and destroy Zach’s life. > > Paul made it very clear that Mary Alice couldn’t kill anyone when he told Mrs. Huber that Mary Alice couldn’t even hurt a fly. So, perhaps Paul killed this person–and buried her beneath the pool. Mary Alice went along with this, as she wanted to protect Zach too. And remember, Zach recalled his mother then putting him in bed and telling him it wasn’t his fault…Zach thought she meant “It’s not your fault you killed your sister” but what if it meant, “It’s not your fault you were born this way, and all of that led to someone dying”? Maxxy makes some observations that didn’t occur to me: > [@](#): > > In many cases, when an intersexual child becomes a teen, they find that their parents made the wrong choice concerning their gender. Zach seems clueless about the real secret, but his parents might notice their son starting to develop feminine characteristics. […] > > What would they do in that case? Well one solution would be to give Zach the testosterone or other male hormones his body wasn’t developing naturally. We know Zach took medication, ostensibly for depression, his mental issues, etc. But with George switching Rex’s medication and Carlos dummying Gabrielle’s birth control pills, we also know that the residents of Wisteria Lane aren’t above switching pills. Testosterone can come in pill form. > > Remember the scene where Paul demanded that Zach eat his mashed potatoes? Some people originally thought that Paul had drugged Zach’s potatoes, until others noted that Paul was also eating potatoes. Well, if Paul was drugging Zach with male hormones, it wouldn’t be too problematic for Paul to have an extra dose of testosterone in his body. > > And also recall all the times we’ve seen Zach get really, really angry. He gave his dad a bloody lip…he freaked out with Susan in this last episode…he has definite mood issues. Testosterone pills will do that to a person. > > And if Paul was getting testosterone from someone somewhere, this could also provide Mrs. Huber with some kind of opportunity to stumble upon the pills. So she learns about the testosterone pills…then starts to dig further…and further…until she learns all about Zach developing like a girl. > > Recall Mrs. Huber’s note to Mary Alice: “I know what you did. It makes me sick. I’m going to tell.” The part about making her sick seems especially apt: Mrs. Huber seems like someone who would definitely find the choices Mary Alice and Paul had made for their child to be sick. Also remember what Mrs. Huber told Paul: " She killed herself because of what she did to that poor baby!" ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2005, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desperate-housewives-4-10-mudds-vindication-spoilers-and-speculation/298746/31 "2005-04-13T21:43:09Z")
Felicity Huffman has been given an insufferable part to play. Her character really is the worst. Re the fictional characters: Lynette doesn’t really need to spank her children. She needs to FOLLOW THROUGH with whatever discipline style she feels comfortable with. I know mothers who are overwhelmed with one child because they can’t do that. On the other hand, I know mothers who have four and five children who are perfectly behaved because they aren’t afraid to discipline them when they need it. It’s ridiculous to think that just because Carlos moved the money out of his offshore account that the documents wouldn’t be worthwhile. Just knowing the money existed should be proof enough for the feds. And, of course, there has to be a trail of where the money was moved TO. Stupid storyline. Of course it’s also stupid to think that the hospital’s attorney would not have gotten ahold of Carlos, the SON of the patient, esp. since he’s under HOUSE ARREST. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2005, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desperate-housewives-4-10-mudds-vindication-spoilers-and-speculation/298746/32 "2005-04-13T22:05:18Z")
**Larry Mudd:** As the first Doper to respond to your intersexed baby theory waaaay back in November and then pooh-poohed it, let me tell you that now that I’ve had more time to absorb it – your observations, coupled with the UK guy’s its-not-mind-drugs-its-testosterone theory, reeeeally did a number on changing my thinking. I’d go so far as to say that if things DON’T shape up the EXACTLY way you’ve presented it, I’ll be disappointed (if not actually pissed) that your alternate plot wasn’t the real thing! Here’s a somewhat premature YOU GO, BOY! Your Virtual J. Fletcher Award proclaiming you Primetime Mystery Solver of 2004-2005 awaits, and will be will sent at the season’s finale. You can get a matching plaque if you can figure out what the hell is going on LOST. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desperate-housewives-4-10-mudds-vindication-spoilers-and-speculation/298746/33 "2005-04-14T05:50:55Z")
I figure it is my turn to post my hair-brained theory: Zach is Dana (duh). Mary Alice and the dad aren’t his real parents, the lady in the box is his real mother. MA and dad kidnapped the baby from where Mary Alice worked, mom came looking, mom ended up in the box. Mom is the person Mike is hired to find and I think in the end we’ll all find out that Zach is actually Mike’s son. Woo hoo! ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desperate-housewives-4-10-mudds-vindication-spoilers-and-speculation/298746/34 "2005-04-14T12:40:16Z")
I know that Mrs. Huber wasn’t a rocket scientist, but if you thought that your neighbors were kidnappers and murderers, would you send them a note that “you were going to tell”? ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desperate-housewives-4-10-mudds-vindication-spoilers-and-speculation/298746/35 "2005-04-14T13:38:24Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > Zach is Dana (duh). Mary Alice and the dad aren’t his real parents, the lady in the box is his real mother. MA and dad kidnapped the baby from where Mary Alice worked, mom came looking, mom ended up in the box. Mom is the person Mike is hired to find and I think in the end we’ll all find out that Zach is actually Mike’s son. This is pretty much how I read it. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desperate-housewives-4-10-mudds-vindication-spoilers-and-speculation/298746/36 "2005-04-14T14:07:15Z")
I seriously hope that whatever else happens the WIB (woman in box) does not turn out to be MLL (Mike’s lost love) and that Zach does not turn out to be Mike’s son. Not like chunks of the show don’t already strain credulity to a certain extent, but for this to turn out to be the case would likely be a snapping point for me. It’s too neat and tidy a wrap-up of what so far have been unrelated storylines, and as I’ve said before closes off a wide open dramatic avenue which would be better served by being dealt with in more time than there is left in this season. Solve the Zach/Dana/Mary Alice mystery this season and leave Dierdre for season 2. And include more scenes with John taking his shirt off. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desperate-housewives-4-10-mudds-vindication-spoilers-and-speculation/298746/37 "2005-04-14T14:18:04Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > And include more scenes with John taking his shirt off. I’d like more scenes of Gabbriella taking her shirt off, but this isn’t HBO… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/desperate-housewives-4-10-mudds-vindication-spoilers-and-speculation/298746.md?page=1)