# Despicable/Morally depraved fictional characters...Ain't they lovable? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 24, 2003, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/despicable-morally-depraved-fictional-characters-aint-they-lovable/197367 "2003-08-24T19:10:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![sajwalke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/edb3f5/32.png) [@sajwalke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sajwalke)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2003, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/despicable-morally-depraved-fictional-characters-aint-they-lovable/197367/21 "2003-08-25T07:20:33Z")
Brain from Pinky and the Brain. Every episode I wished he’d finally achieve his dream of world conquest. Also Anthony Soprano. ---
**Author:** ![kiwiboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/35a633/32.png) [@kiwiboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kiwiboy)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2003, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/despicable-morally-depraved-fictional-characters-aint-they-lovable/197367/22 "2003-08-25T07:37:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Banquet Bear \* > \*\*… Avon, from Blakes 7 … \*\* Avon wasn’t really irredeemably evil though, just morally dubious at times, with self-preservation as his ultimate guiding principle. Servalan on the other hand ought to be included, if only for the fetishistic outfits… ---
**Author:** ![DKW](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dkw/32/3118_2.png) [@DKW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DKW)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2003, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/despicable-morally-depraved-fictional-characters-aint-they-lovable/197367/23 "2003-08-25T07:39:40Z")
Call me weird, but after seeing **Happosai** from Ranma 1/2 in several volumes, I almost have to root for him now, maily because he’s completely misunderstood by almost everybody. (Oh yeah, first off, a caveat: Happosai is the type of character who can become _unbelievably_ insufferable and almost singlehandedly kill a comic, much like Mr. Yotsuya in Maison Ikkoku. You gotta know exactly how to handle them, and you gotta put them in the right kind of story. It’s not a character anyone, manga-ists or otherwise, should introduce lightly.) Now then. Just about everyone in Ranma 1/2 calls him a pervert. But is he really? Consider: - He takes things that aren’t his. - He cites privileges he doesn’t deserve. - He’s completely self-serving and doesn’t give a damn about anyone else. - He’s a spoiled brat who wants everything his way. - He abuses every bit of authority he has to the breaking point. - He enjoys causing mayhem and doing things others don’t want him to. - He’s oblivious to morals, standards, norms, etc. - He really, _really_ loves violence. Folks, what we have here is a description of EVERY MAJOR MALE CHARACTER IN RANMA 1/2. So why is only Happosai the big pervert? Simple…_he’s honest about it_, and _he likes panties._ This isn’t a pervert, folks, this is a _reality check_. Here we have a man who’s pulling the _exact_ kind of crap everyone else does, only he doesn’t care what they think. When you look at it that way, he’s almost…refreshing. (Oh yeah, and it helps that it’s always played for laughs and Rumiko Takahashi never lets it get too deep, etc.) P.S.: IMHO, Bender is a complete waste of metal; I found him entertaining for all of two minutes. Same for Eric Cartman, and I will _not_ hear any silly rationalizations for him. And Dee Dee isn’t despicable or morally depraved, she’s just a foil for Dexter (and she’s done a helluva lot more good than Bender, for that matter). ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2003, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/despicable-morally-depraved-fictional-characters-aint-they-lovable/197367/24 "2003-08-25T11:22:25Z")
Sephiroth baby, Sephiroth. He’s got more Charisma just walking on-screen than most vilains ever achieve. And then there’s Captain _Jack_ Sparrow, from the recent Pirates of the Caribbean… I’d also like to nominate Artemis Entreri from R. A. Salvatore’s Servant of the Shard (well, he’s been in many of his other works, beforehand, but this one focused on Entreri himself). Sure, he’s an Assassin, a cold blooded killer, and for a while obsessed with killing one of Faerun’s better heroes. But still, he’s so deep. Its never really explained why he’s so bad, but its hinted that he doesn’t really believe good exists. He isn’t a hero, he’s just someone who lived in bad circumstances and survived in them. ---
**Author:** ![Lazlo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lazlo/32/9678_2.png) [@Lazlo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lazlo)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2003, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/despicable-morally-depraved-fictional-characters-aint-they-lovable/197367/25 "2003-08-25T11:35:03Z")
What?? No mention of Jules or Vincent Vega? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2003, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/despicable-morally-depraved-fictional-characters-aint-they-lovable/197367/26 "2003-08-25T11:46:06Z")
Andrew Vachss’ _Burke_ is not anyone’s model citizen, yet comfortably fills the role of hero through the series. ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Mapp](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miss_mapp/32/369_2.png) [@Miss\_Mapp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Mapp)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2003, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/despicable-morally-depraved-fictional-characters-aint-they-lovable/197367/27 "2003-08-25T11:52:34Z")
I’ve always loved Garak on ST:DS9. Formerly a professional assassin and torturer, utterly pragmatic and ruthless in obtaining his goals, and such a delightful lunch date. ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Mapp](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miss_mapp/32/369_2.png) [@Miss\_Mapp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Mapp)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2003, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/despicable-morally-depraved-fictional-characters-aint-they-lovable/197367/28 "2003-08-25T11:54:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by me, without bothering to preview \* > **… on ST:DS9.** Yikes! That should be _Star Trek: Deep Space Nine_, with no little grinning guy in the middle. ---
**Author:** ![gallows\_fodder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8c91f0/32.png) [@gallows\_fodder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gallows_fodder)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2003, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/despicable-morally-depraved-fictional-characters-aint-they-lovable/197367/29 "2003-08-25T13:31:27Z")
Littlefinger, from George R. R. Martin’s **Song of Ice and Fire** series. He’s witty, genial, and a fancy dresser…and he’s behind _everything_ bad that goes down. Assassinations, dissolution of political alliances, wars…all his doing. I _love_ him. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2003, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/despicable-morally-depraved-fictional-characters-aint-they-lovable/197367/30 "2003-08-25T13:31:27Z")
Sam Spade, from The Maltese Falcon. He is cheating with his partner’s wife, and then shoves off the task of getting rid of her to his secretary. He systematically steals almost every dime she has from Brigid O"Shaughnessy, who he claims to be crazy about. He slaps Joel Cairo around, lies to the police, and tells the truth to practically no one he knows. And yet you are rooting for him. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2003, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/despicable-morally-depraved-fictional-characters-aint-they-lovable/197367/31 "2003-08-25T14:22:58Z")
Flashman, from all the **Flashman** books by George MacDonald Fraser. Cad, bully, coward, womanizer, liar, sneak, the list goes and on, but an intelligent rogue with an eye for history and a gift for languages, so he can be forgiven. In addition to Littlefinger from **Song of Ice and Fire** , by George R. R. Martin, none other than Tyrion Lannister. Remorseless, conniving, and vicious, but mainly because it enables him to deal effectively with the countless other blackhearted bastards in the books. He preys on the powerful, not the powerless. Apropos, from **Sir Apropos of Nothing** and **Woad to Wuin** by Peter David. The fantasy version of Flashman, he is the destroyer of clichés. If the hero is destined to ride on the back of the unicorn to rescue the fair princess, Apropos will mug him, steal the unicorn, and ride the creature off to sell it. ---
**Author:** ![burundi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3ec8ea/32.png) [@burundi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burundi)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2003, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/despicable-morally-depraved-fictional-characters-aint-they-lovable/197367/32 "2003-08-25T14:25:25Z")
Although he only made a brief appearance: Jubal Early, a bounty hunter who appeared in the late, lamented _Firefly_. So evil, and yet so damn cool. I’m sure I’ll think of more… ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2003, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/despicable-morally-depraved-fictional-characters-aint-they-lovable/197367/33 "2003-08-25T14:41:25Z")
**Knowed Out** , you beat me to _Flashman_. You describe him well, and the great thing is, he knows it! ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2003, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/despicable-morally-depraved-fictional-characters-aint-they-lovable/197367/34 "2003-08-25T14:42:38Z")
to restate that last sentence: **Knowed Out** , you beat me to _Flashman_. You describe him well, and the great thing is, he knows what a tool he is, and freely admits it to the reader. ---
**Author:** ![Kaspar\_Hauser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b3f665/32.png) [@Kaspar\_Hauser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaspar_Hauser)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2003, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/despicable-morally-depraved-fictional-characters-aint-they-lovable/197367/35 "2003-08-25T16:49:59Z")
**C. Montgomery Burns.** War profiteer, puppy stealer, sunlight blocker, bane of the EPA (not to mention FERC), and, in general, all-around evil dude. But who didn’t feel a little sorry for him when he lost all his money and had to go to the supermarket by himself? “Ketchup… catsup… ketchup… catsup… ooh, I’m in over my head!” ---
**Author:** ![cher3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/da6949/32.png) [@cher3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cher3)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2003, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/despicable-morally-depraved-fictional-characters-aint-they-lovable/197367/36 "2003-08-25T17:13:43Z")
**Havelock Vetinari** , Patrician of Ankh-Morpork. Now there’s a man who really knows how to be cruel in order to be kind. ---
**Author:** ![qwanderer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ea924/32.png) [@qwanderer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/qwanderer)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2003, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/despicable-morally-depraved-fictional-characters-aint-they-lovable/197367/37 "2003-08-25T17:25:22Z")
Vetinari is totally not morally bankrupt! And not cute! He does everything for the stability of the city. That’s why everyone hates him and he is so cool. For this category, I nominate C. W. St. J. “Nobby” Nobbs, the cute little tea-money-stealing cretin. I mean, he does a surprising amount to be involved in the community, but that mostly involves dressing up in strange costumes and supporting the memory of tyrannical kings. ---
**Author:** ![cher3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/da6949/32.png) [@cher3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cher3)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2003, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/despicable-morally-depraved-fictional-characters-aint-they-lovable/197367/38 "2003-08-25T17:49:36Z")
Oh, I agree, **qwanderer** , Vetinari only has the best ends in mind–it’s the means that can get a bit hairy from time to time. Or, rather, the potential means. It is much cooler to have a reputation for keeping a scorpion pit in your dungeon than to actually have to resort to using one. ---
**Author:** ![Rhum\_Runner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rhum\_Runner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhum_Runner)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2003, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/despicable-morally-depraved-fictional-characters-aint-they-lovable/197367/39 "2003-08-25T21:45:53Z")
How about **Francis Urquhart** from the BBC production of _House of Cards_? ---
**Author:** ![shy\_guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@shy\_guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shy_guy)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/despicable-morally-depraved-fictional-characters-aint-they-lovable/197367/40 "2003-08-26T00:42:47Z")
> [@](#): > > “The Monster,” whoever it may be, in any number of Z-grade horror movies. Definitely. I root for Jason to slaughter every last member of the cast in every **Friday the 13th**. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/despicable-morally-depraved-fictional-characters-aint-they-lovable/197367.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/despicable-morally-depraved-fictional-characters-aint-they-lovable/197367.md?page=3)