# Despicable/Morally depraved fictional characters...Ain't they lovable? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 24, 2003, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/despicable-morally-depraved-fictional-characters-aint-they-lovable/197367 "2003-08-24T19:10:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/despicable-morally-depraved-fictional-characters-aint-they-lovable/197367/41 "2003-08-26T02:51:22Z")
_Mystery Science Theater 3000_’s Pearl Forrestor. She’s just an evil gal who wants to rule the world. I can so relate to THAT. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/despicable-morally-depraved-fictional-characters-aint-they-lovable/197367/42 "2003-08-26T04:46:31Z")
From the various Drow related Forgotten Realms novels: Jarlaxle - Would be FUN to hang with, and…he’s Drow. He’s very Drow. Which he strangely turned to his advantage by announcing it to the world - who then assumed he must be Drizzt Do’Urden. That, my friends, is what I call BALLS. Artemis Entreri - Jarlaxle’s long-suffering partner in crime. Gotta love him just for managing to hang with Jarlaxle without slitting his throat. Gromph Baenre - Intelligent, rather charming in a slightly brooding way, refined as any other Drow. And, vicious, cruel, and ambitious as any other Drow. Pharaun Mizzrym - Like Gromph, intelligent, charming, and refined - and vicious, cruel and ambitous. Unlike Gromph (and more like his surprisingly lively younger brother, Jarlaxle), he has a real sense of fun, and a hedonistic streak a mile wide. Ryld Argith - Pharaun’s rather more taciturn friend. Brutal, efficient, and loyal. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/despicable-morally-depraved-fictional-characters-aint-they-lovable/197367/43 "2003-08-26T04:54:41Z")
From the various Drow related Forgotten Realms novels: Jarlaxle - Would be FUN to hang with, and…he’s Drow. He’s very Drow. Which he strangely turned to his advantage by announcing it to the world - who then assumed he must be Drizzt Do’Urden. That, my friends, is what I call BALLS. Artemis Entreri - Jarlaxle’s long-suffering partner in crime. Gotta love him just for managing to hang with Jarlaxle without slitting his throat. Gromph Baenre - Intelligent, rather charming in a slightly brooding way, refined as any other Drow. And, vicious, cruel, and ambitious as any other Drow. Pharaun Mizzrym - Like Gromph, intelligent, charming, and refined - and vicious, cruel and ambitous. Unlike Gromph (and more like his surprisingly lively younger brother, Jarlaxle), he has a real sense of fun, and a hedonistic streak a mile wide. Ryld Argith - Pharaun’s rather more taciturn friend. Brutal, efficient, and loyal. ---
**Author:** ![Incubus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c68b51/32.png) [@Incubus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Incubus)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/despicable-morally-depraved-fictional-characters-aint-they-lovable/197367/44 "2003-08-26T05:37:39Z")
I can’t remember the name of the movie, but Michael Keaton played a convicted felon who was the only compatible donor for some other guy’s son. He was given the death sentence, but he will be commuted if he donates the organ. The whole time he’s trying to escape, because he feels they will excecute him anyway after they do the transplant. He was basically holding this kid’s organ hostiage inside his body, so to speak. If they harmed him, they risked damaging the organ that they needed. Eventually, he gets caught and they do the transplant, but he still gets the last laugh on the end. I found it interesting because he was a man who had nothing to lose. He was quite resourceful and the whole movie I was really REALLY hoping he wouldn’t die. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/despicable-morally-depraved-fictional-characters-aint-they-lovable/197367/45 "2003-08-26T11:32:38Z")
> [@](#): > > Havelock Vetinari, Patrician of Ankh-Morpork. Now there’s a man who really knows how to be cruel in order to be kind. He’s very moral. he has EVERYONE’s best interests in mind. Unfortunately, they don’t always realize what their best interests are… For example, getting in Vetinari’s way is usually certainly not in your best interest. If you like breathing, anyway. Of course, I can’t recall him ever actually putting anyone in the dungeon. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/despicable-morally-depraved-fictional-characters-aint-they-lovable/197367/46 "2003-08-26T12:16:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bricker \* > \*\*Andrew Vachss’ _Burke_ is not anyone’s model citizen, yet comfortably fills the role of hero through the series. \*\* You bet me to it. Not only is Burke a total vigilante and working completely outside the law, he manages to surround himself with the most bizarre NYC people he can find. And yet he is extremely moral and fighting for a very good cause. And he takes good care of his dog. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/despicable-morally-depraved-fictional-characters-aint-they-lovable/197367/47 "2003-08-26T12:33:26Z")
We musn’t forget Londo Milare from **Babylon 5**. From the beginning, he was merely a powerless diplomat of a fading empire, then started making deals with the devil to gain status, eventually restoring the Centauri to becoming a major power in the universe. He outmaneuvered and crushed political opponents, then plotted the downfall of the Shadows when he discovered their true intentions. Despite being hated for assassinations, murders and genocide, he was well respected by his colleagues at the diplomat chamber. The crowning achievement of becoming emperor of his people resulted in him spending the rest of his life in suffereing and anguish. ---
**Author:** ![Agrippina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8797f3/32.png) [@Agrippina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agrippina)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/despicable-morally-depraved-fictional-characters-aint-they-lovable/197367/48 "2003-08-26T12:58:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Incubus \* > \*\*I can’t remember the name of the movie, but Michael Keaton played a convicted felon who was the only compatible donor for some other guy’s son. He was given the death sentence, but he will be commuted if he donates the organ. The whole time he’s trying to escape, because he feels they will excecute him anyway after they do the transplant. \*\* It was **Desperate Measures** and his bone marrow was compatiable with the kid’s. I liked that movie enough, but I think the film makers were trying too hard to make Keaton’s character into the next Hannibal Lecter minus the cannibalism. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/despicable-morally-depraved-fictional-characters-aint-they-lovable/197367/49 "2003-08-26T16:18:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Annie-Xmas \* > \*\*You bet me to it. Not only is Burke a total vigilante and working completely outside the law, he manages to surround himself with the most bizarre NYC people he can find. And yet he is extremely moral and fighting for a very good cause. And he takes good care of his dog. \*\* The dog died saving him. Burke has major issues getting over it in the latest book. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/despicable-morally-depraved-fictional-characters-aint-they-lovable/197367/50 "2003-08-26T21:17:00Z")
Francis Crawford in Dorothy Dunnet’s Lymond Chronicles. Stylishly written historical fiction with an anti-hero who betrays his brother to the invading English, invades his mother’s castle, steals her jewels, stabs a guest, and leaves the castle burning behind him. And that’s just in the first chapter or two. He’s also a thief, a womanizer, a reprobate, a ruthless killer, and a convicted traitor condemned to the galleys. Yet somehow Dunnett manages to convince everyone that he’s a good guy with a few character flaws by the end of the series. ---
**Author:** ![Sad\_Waters](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/898d66/32.png) [@Sad\_Waters](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sad_Waters)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/despicable-morally-depraved-fictional-characters-aint-they-lovable/197367/51 "2003-08-26T21:28:36Z")
Joan Crawford. Oh wait, she’s not a character. 😛 I love every film she did though. Are we talking books? Humbert Humbert in “Lolita” Ivan in Dostoyevsky’s “The Brother’s Karamazov” Charley Bruno in Patricia Highsmith’s “Stranger’s on a Train.” Movies wise… I loved Robert Carlyle in the movie “Ravenous.” Bill the Butcher played by Daniel Day Lewis in “Gangs of New York.” ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/despicable-morally-depraved-fictional-characters-aint-they-lovable/197367/52 "2003-08-26T22:08:24Z")
I was just gonna post that no one had mentioned Humbert yet…but here we have it! 😃 IMO, he wasn’t as morally depraved as your average violent criminal. However, despite his immaturity and obsession, he does come off as a very sympathy-engendering character. So does practically everyone in the book, except of course Quilty.\* _Ada_, on the other hand, by Nabokov, is an example of the opposite phenomenon: No one in the book engendered my sympathy, even the ones that seemed nice were slow and pathetic. But the main characters were just plain _evil_. They basically trashed everyone’s lives around them while coming out of it unharmed. My take on it. \*Of course, some cite Lolita as the prime example of a narrator who cannot be trusted, I personally have doubts about that theory, but if it’s true, then how can we be certain everyone is as sympathetic as they seem in Humbert’s narration? ---
**Author:** ![davidw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@davidw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidw)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/despicable-morally-depraved-fictional-characters-aint-they-lovable/197367/53 "2003-08-26T23:46:04Z")
Mouse, from the **Easy Rawlins** novels. And Hawk, from the **Spencer** books. ---
**Author:** ![Bomzaway](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e480ec/32.png) [@Bomzaway](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bomzaway)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2003, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/despicable-morally-depraved-fictional-characters-aint-they-lovable/197367/54 "2003-09-16T06:11:40Z")
I loved the villian in **Highlander**. The church scene, where he tamps out the candles and wags his tongue at the nuns is just priceless. His rampage on the streets of the city was great too. That guy MADE that film. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2003, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/despicable-morally-depraved-fictional-characters-aint-they-lovable/197367/55 "2003-09-16T06:18:32Z")
> [@](#): > > _Mystery Science Theater 3000_’s Pearl Forrester. She’s just an evil gal who wants to rule the world. I can so relate to THAT. I liked her son a lot better. Surprised nobody mentioned Humbert until page 2. You don’t exactly like him, but he’s as repulsively fascinating as anybody. The second time through the book, I didn’t find him sympathetic. (Actually, I didn’t the first time either.) Perhaps I see him a little more sympathetic now because a lot of the time, cruel as he was, he struck me as just plain sad. ---
**Author:** ![Yumblie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/76d3ee/32.png) [@Yumblie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yumblie)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2003, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/despicable-morally-depraved-fictional-characters-aint-they-lovable/197367/56 "2003-09-16T07:00:44Z")
I wouldn’t really consider Doc Daneeka a “villain” of **Catch 22** , especially compared with some of the more dispicable characters in the story, but he’s quite full of himself and refuses to send anyone home. All he does is mope and whine about how horrible his life is, when his own friends have it much worse. Still, you also feel kinda sorry for him, especially after he “dies” and loses what little he had going for him. ---
**Author:** ![Jennyrosity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/2bfe46/32.png) [@Jennyrosity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jennyrosity)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2003, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/despicable-morally-depraved-fictional-characters-aint-they-lovable/197367/57 "2003-09-16T14:03:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fretful Porpentine \* > \*\*Ooh yes, Richard III for sure, and Edmund in _King Lear_, and … uh, why is everyone except **Katisha** looking at me funny? \*\* Not everyone. Edmund has long my favourite villian - I think it’s the “Now God stand up for bastards!” speech, and you gotta love Richard, cos sure yeah he’s an evil, murderous, manipulative swine, but DAMN he’s funny with it. I’d vote for Iago from Othello for the same reasons. On a lighter note, definately agree with Spike from Buffy, and would also vote for Professor Snape from Harry Potter, although I realise the jury’s still out on his evilness. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2003, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/despicable-morally-depraved-fictional-characters-aint-they-lovable/197367/58 "2003-09-16T15:22:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kiwiboy \* > \*\*Servalan on the other hand ought to be included, if only for the fetishistic outfits… \*\* Jacqueline Pierce (if that was the actress’s name; I’m suffering a terrible attack of equivocation here) was interviewed on TV once and admitted that it was not only amusing but a huge ego boost to know that she represented the acme of masturbatory fantasy to a whole generation of adolescent males. 🙂 _And_ she got fan mail from men who wanted her to punish them for being naughty. 😃 How about **Imhotep** , from _The Mummy_? I really felt for the evil s-o-b by the end of the film. ---
**Author:** ![DaPearl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5e925/32.png) [@DaPearl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaPearl)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2003, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/despicable-morally-depraved-fictional-characters-aint-they-lovable/197367/59 "2003-09-16T15:41:37Z")
Many people liked Ralph Cifaretto on _The Sopranos_. He even managed to gain back some people after the Tracy incident. As for me, I couldn’t get enough of the other psychopath, Richie Aprile. Hell all the characters on _The Sopranos_ fit into the category for this thread, though I don’t think I’ve ever met anyone who loves Janice. ---
**Author:** ![St\_Ides](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@St\_Ides](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/St_Ides)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2003, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/despicable-morally-depraved-fictional-characters-aint-they-lovable/197367/60 "2003-09-16T18:58:47Z")
**Richard Strong** of _Made in Canada_ I guess only Canadians will understand this one. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/despicable-morally-depraved-fictional-characters-aint-they-lovable/197367.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/despicable-morally-depraved-fictional-characters-aint-they-lovable/197367.md?page=4)