# Despite hearing this on NPR, I can't stop disinfecting! **URL:** \ **Category:** The Quarantine Zone\ **Tags:** covid-quarantine\ **Created:** [December 30, 2020, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/despite-hearing-this-on-npr-i-cant-stop-disinfecting/929210 "2020-12-30T01:14:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2020, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/despite-hearing-this-on-npr-i-cant-stop-disinfecting/929210/21 "2020-12-30T19:38:22Z")
Well, even if Covid is not spread by contact surfaces, there are still other germs that are, like the common cold, some of the traditional flu, e-coli, etc. So disinfecting things is still accomplishing a worthy goal. Maybe some of these new habits will become ingrained in our daily habits like ‘wash your hands after using the bathroom’ is, or should be. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2020, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/despite-hearing-this-on-npr-i-cant-stop-disinfecting/929210/22 "2020-12-30T19:44:37Z")
By the numbers, chemotherapy offered a low anticipated improvement in my 5-year mortality prediction, just a few percent. Did I have chemo anyway? Hell, yeah. Do I continue to clean surfaces despite the low risk of COVID transmission? Uh, yeah, especially since the unreliable mask/don’t mask messaging. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2020, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/despite-hearing-this-on-npr-i-cant-stop-disinfecting/929210/23 "2020-12-30T20:25:15Z")
> [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](#): > > If you can get it from surfaces, then on an individual level, **cleaning everything that comes in at one time is easier than washing your hands every time you touch one of those things**. Can’t speak for others … but to me, washing/sanitizing my hands frequently is much, much easier than wiping down things that come into the house like groceries and mail. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2020, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/despite-hearing-this-on-npr-i-cant-stop-disinfecting/929210/24 "2020-12-30T21:05:57Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > Well, to be fair, COVID or no, things like door handles are filthy in general and should be cleaned regularly anyways. Hospital studies indicate that copper push plates and door handles are better than brushed aluminum, because stuff survives longer on brushed aluminum than on copper. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2020, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/despite-hearing-this-on-npr-i-cant-stop-disinfecting/929210/25 "2020-12-30T21:11:48Z")
I’ve long suspected that in Melbourne.Victoria.Australia, part of the wipe-down requirements for businesses was a dishonest way of making businesses want to close down or work off-site, by making the requirements for on-site employment un-attractive. Personally, it irritated me that the business I work for spent time wiping down the walls, instead of _opening the windows_, because that was never mandated. I’ve no way of knowing what was actually in their minds: they made all the COVID documentation ‘cabinet in confidence’ to prevent anyone using FOI laws to find out. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2020, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/despite-hearing-this-on-npr-i-cant-stop-disinfecting/929210/26 "2020-12-30T21:12:22Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > > [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](#): > > > > If you can get it from surfaces, then on an individual level, **cleaning everything that comes in at one time is easier than washing your hands every time you touch one of those things**. > > Can’t speak for others … but to me, washing/sanitizing my hands frequently is much, much easier than wiping down things that come into the house like groceries and mail. I get groceries, these days, about every three weeks; and the mail once a day, six days a week. I don’t wipe down all the groceries, I just set most of them aside for a couple of days. But it’s massively easier for me to wipe down some things and the groceries every three weeks and wash my hands once after taking a fast look and then setting the mail aside for a day or so than it would be for me to wash my hands every day before every time I touch my face. Especially since I don’t wipe things down, as such. I spray them with rubbing alcohol from a spray bottle. – I have, since reading the more recent reports, gotten more careless with groceries that need to go into refrigerator or freezer (and therefore, judging by interim reports, would have needed to be set aside for extraordinary lengths of time.) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2020, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/despite-hearing-this-on-npr-i-cant-stop-disinfecting/929210/27 "2020-12-30T22:30:39Z")
Post 17. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2020, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/despite-hearing-this-on-npr-i-cant-stop-disinfecting/929210/28 "2020-12-31T00:01:03Z")
> [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](#): > > In New Zealand, which has so few cases of COVID-19 that contact tracers are able to precisely follow the path of infections, public health experts traced two recent infections to an elevator lift button and a trash can. “This particular [trash] bin had a lid that required you to lift the lid,” the island nation’s director of public health, Dr Caroline McElnay, [said](https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/427446/rubbish-bin-the-likely-source-of-covid-infection) at a press conference. But why do they think the people caught it from touching the objects rather than breathing in air the positive person coughed out? If I correctly recall, the person who caught it from the elevator was in the elevator shortly after the sick person who wasn’t wearing a mask. ---
**Author:** ![FigNorton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fignorton/32/5619_2.png) [@FigNorton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FigNorton)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2020, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/despite-hearing-this-on-npr-i-cant-stop-disinfecting/929210/29 "2020-12-31T00:54:01Z")
That is my understanding as well. ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2020, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/despite-hearing-this-on-npr-i-cant-stop-disinfecting/929210/30 "2020-12-31T15:30:37Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Post 17. Post 17 says: > [@Ranch\_Dip](#): > > **There is still a lot that is unknown about COVID-19 and how it spreads**. Coronaviruses are thought to be spread most often by respiratory droplets. Although **the virus can survive for a short period on some surfaces** , it is unlikely to be spread from domestic or international mail, products or packaging. However, **it may be possible that people can get COVID-19 by touching a surface or object that has the virus on it and then touching their own mouth, nose, or possibly their eyes** , but this is not thought to be the main way the virus spreads. As I noted in a previous post: > [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](#): > > That’s low, not zero. For a given individual, they have to decide if they want to live with a “low” risk or take some fairly easy precautions to cut that risk down further. > [@elfkin477](#): > > But why do they think the people caught it from touching the objects rather than breathing in air the positive person coughed out? If I correctly recall, the person who caught it from the elevator was in the elevator shortly after the sick person who wasn’t wearing a mask. Because it doesn’t account for all the cases and because it’s possible, so my question would be why rule out possible infection from contact with an object. I went searching for more information on the elevator button incident. I found that there are actually 2 elevator button incidents, the one in New Zealand and [one in China](https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200903/coronavirus-on-surfaces-whats-the-real-risk). WebMD lists two possible cases of contact transmisson while the Salon article lists two possible cases of contact transmission from New Zealand for at least 4 possible cases of contact transmission. > [@](#): > > In late May, the [CDC](https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2020/s0522-cdc-updates-covid-transmission.html) updated its website to say it’s possible, but [unlikely](https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/how-covid-spreads.html), for people to catch the virus this way. Surface transmission may have played a role in two cases. A recent[study](https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/9/20-1798_article?deliveryName=USCDC_333-DM32083#tnF1) from China documented possible transmission through an elevator button, and another [study](https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/05/study-tells-remarkable-story-about-covid-19-s-deadly-rampage-through-south-african) of cases in a South African hospital found that contaminated medical equipment may have helped spread the virus. The circumstance that’s rare is not necessarily that the people got the virus from contact transmission, it’s that they were in managed isolation at the time. Not many places in the world have a managed isolation so strict and controlled that they can identify a possible case of contact transmission. If someone in the US said that they hadn’t had any other contact with people for any length of time, people would just say they’re lying since there’s not any way to prove it. It’s possible that it happens more often in the US. There just wouldn’t be many easy ways to prove it. And [here’s](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/28/well/live/whats-the-risk-of-catching-coronavirus-from-a-surface.html) a possible outbreak possibly caused by fomite transmission. > [@](#): > > An outbreak associated with a shopping mall in Wenzhou, China, may have been [fueled by fomite transmission](https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/6/20-0412_article). In January, seven workers who shared an office in a shopping mall became ill when one of their co-workers returned from Wuhan. The mall was closed, and public health officials tracked two dozen more sick people, including several women who had shopped at the mall, as well as their friends. None of them had come into contact with the original sick office workers. The researchers speculated that a women’s restroom or the mall elevators had been the source of transmission. If there are multiple incidents where the possibilities point to fomite transmission and there isn’t a way to trace that in many parts of the world, there isn’t enough information to say that it doesn’t happen in other places. Those are just the cases I found on a quick search for the elevator button incident. There may be more cases that I didn’t go looking for. Experts, including the CDC do say that fomite transmission is possible. > [@](#): > > Here’s how fomite transmission works. An infected person coughs or sneezes on their hands. Some of the droplets may splash onto a nearby surface, or the person spreads the germs by touching a faucet or countertop before washing his hands. Studies show that coronavirus can [last up to three days](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/17/health/coronavirus-surfaces-aerosols.html) on plastic and steel, but once it lands on a surface, the amount of viable virus begins to disintegrate in a matter of hours. That means a droplet on a surface is far more infectious right after the sneeze — not so much a few days later. > > Next, you have to come along and touch the contaminated surface, pick up enough viable virus on your hands, and then touch your eyes, nose or mouth. If all goes well for the virus, you will get sick. > > “There’s a long chain of events that would need to happen for someone to become infected through contact with groceries, mail, takeout containers or other surfaces,” said [Julia Marcus](https://twitter.com/JuliaLMarcus/status/1255225196543344642?s=20)[,](https://www.populationmedicine.org/jmarcus) an infectious disease epidemiologist and assistant professor in the department of population medicine at Harvard Medical School. “The last step in that causal chain is touching your eyes, nose or mouth with your contaminated hand, so the best way to make sure the chain is broken is washing your hands.” [Other experts](https://bestlifeonline.com/covid-from-surfaces/) say that it’s still possible to get covid from touching objects. > [@](#): > > But other health experts reiterate that it’s important not to forget that even though the risk is low, it it still possible to get COVID from objects. “[High touch surfaces](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/28/well/live/whats-the-risk-of-catching-coronavirus-from-a-surface.html) like railings and doorknobs, elevator buttons are not the primary driver of the infection in the United States,” comparative immunologist **Erin Bromage** , PhD, a biology professor at the University of Massachusetts, Dartmouth told _The New York Times_ in May. “But it’s still a bad idea to touch your face. If someone who is infectious coughs on their hand and shakes your hand and you rub your eyes—yes, you’re infected. Someone’s drinking from a glass, and you pick it up near the rim and later rub your eyes or mouth, you’re infected.” There’s enough vagueness in that (like how many hours between the time the virus is clearly infectious until it can’t be detected is it possibly infectious), along with the recorded cases that makes me think that it’s possible to happen, it probably has happened, and that taking a few precautions can reduce the risk even further. Sources: [Salon](https://www.salon.com/2020/10/13/the-coronavirus-may-live-longer-on-some-surfaces-than-previously-believed-heres-what-that-means/) (2 NZ cases) [RNZ](https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/427446/rubbish-bin-the-likely-source-of-covid-infection) (rubbish bin incident) [WebMD](https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200903/coronavirus-on-surfaces-whats-the-real-risk) (on two other cases) [CDC](https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/9/20-1798_article?deliveryName=USCDC_333-DM32083#tnF1) on China elevator button incident [CBS](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cdc-coronavirus-doesnt-spread-easily-on-surfaces-transmission-before-symptoms/) [NYTimes](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/28/well/live/whats-the-risk-of-catching-coronavirus-from-a-surface.html) (on fomite transmission) [Better health online](https://bestlifeonline.com/covid-from-surfaces/) (other experts) ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2021, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/despite-hearing-this-on-npr-i-cant-stop-disinfecting/929210/31 "2021-04-07T09:01:14Z")
CDC has put out new guidance with a more numerical risk of fomite transmission. [https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/546541-cdc-risk-of-covid-transmission-on-surfaces-is-low](https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/546541-cdc-risk-of-covid-transmission-on-surfaces-is-low) > [@](#): > > “It is possible for people to be infected through contact with contaminated surfaces or objects (fomites), but the risk is generally considered to be low,” the agency said. > > The principal mode by which people are infected with SARS-CoV-2 virus is through exposure to respiratory droplets, the CDC said. While not impossible, the agency said the risk of infection through fomites is “generally less than 1 in 10,000.” > . . . > According to the CDC, cleaning surfaces using soap or detergent, and not disinfecting, is enough to reduce risk in most situations. > . . . > Disinfection is recommended in indoor community settings where there has been a suspected or confirmed case of COVID-19 within the last 24 hours, the CDC said. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2021, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/despite-hearing-this-on-npr-i-cant-stop-disinfecting/929210/32 "2021-04-07T15:48:38Z")
They do seem to be allowing for people scrubbing their hands after they’ve touched something. I’ve been setting aside mail and packages for one to three days depending on material, before figuring it’s safe to handle them without washing hands every time I touch something. (As it is, I’m going through hand cream like crazy; I have quite dry skin, and too much washing risks bleeding cracks.) Tomorrow will be two weeks since my second Pfizer shot. And I’m going to take a deep breath and stop doing that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/despite-hearing-this-on-npr-i-cant-stop-disinfecting/929210.md?page=1)