I’d like to share a little secret. We all know that people are the same wherever you go. There is good and bad, in everyone.
The justice system in our country is obviously screwed up. We all know about the insane incarceration rate, which of course impacts minorities relatively harshly. Even if an individual judge tries not to be biased, the system nevertheless ends up putting black people behind bars on average longer than it does whites for the same crimes.
I despise coy little statements like “some post here may be racist” then a refusal to come out and say which it is. It’s disingenuous and hardly helpful to open discussion.
I think also that the NBA and NFL, and the overwhelming success of African-American athletes in those leagues, and the huge popularity of people like Kobe Bryant, Michael Jordan, Jerry Rice, Emmitt Smith, LeBron James, etc., has also served as an area in which black people have clearly risen to the top in all of society and are highly admired, which in turn shapes perception.
Obviously the best people to answer questions about why (and whether) black people don’t hate white people would be white people, thus my gratitude toward white people answering this question for me. Do please tell me more.
Come on, wouldn’t you agree that “Please say it’s me? Please oh please oh please.” is a coy little statement too?
This thread is very interesting and useful, especially to those of us who want to learn, but I imagine the subject has the potential to be pretty tiresome to the people who know the most about it, too. If some people who are willing to put up with yet another conversation with those of us who don’t quite get it, bless them for their patience. But you’re actually baiting people. Given that we all get very different places from which to observe race dynamics, if somebody’s engaged enough to share their views, assuming you’d like to understand, why actually goad them and try to make the whole thing more angry? If there’s racism in the air (and there usually is), why try to make it somebody else’s work to be the one to call posters out by name?
If you don’t want to hear it, fine, just don’t stick around – but some of us do, so let us.
Is “This thread is making this black person hate certain Dopers, that’s for sure.” engaged enough to share their views??? Really?
Disproportionality? That’s really helpful when the USA holds half of the worlds prisoners.
Let me explain that. UK prison population = 90,000. UK black prison population = 11% or 10,000. UK black population 1.8 mill, UK mixed black ethnic population 1.2 million.
So 10,000 of whatever adults males are in a total population of 3 million are currently in prison.
Like I said. dumbassed question. Get back to me when 33% of adult blacks end up in prison.
Muhammad Ali said it best, I think - ‘I Ain’t Got No Quarrel With The VietCong…No VietCong Ever Called Me Nigger.’
Maybe or maybe not, depending what you can read into it, but posting the Dunbar poem sure was. I want more of that.
As I wrote earlier, maybe we have a different definition of institutional racism. I’m not disputing that racism happens. But I don’t see any examples where people are being told to be racist as part of their job.
That used to be the case. People were told things like “Don’t serve any black customers.”
The same applies to the examples you gave. I’m sure that black people will be disproportionately disenfranchised by so-called voter reforms. And I’m sure the legislators who are seeking these laws know that. But I would be astonished if you can find a single mention of race anywhere in any law being proposed.
I’d say not just whom they know, but also relatives.
Most black people I know have at least one white relative. Heck blended families are becoming ever more common. So how can you fight someone when that person is your cousin or uncle?
I’m probably not being clear in my responses. Racism is illegal, Institutional Racism - by dint of being a consequence of a policy direction - may not be overtly racist (and so would not be illegal of itself).
Thus with voting reform, the alleged purpose was to clear up anomolies, the unintended consequence was racist.
BOOM!, I think I understand what you’re talking about, but there seems to be a problem of “being separated by the same language”.
In Spain we differentiate racismo institucional (that which is actually written into the legal system), which is the kind the Americans are saying they currently don’t have and you actually agree with them, and racismo institucionalizado, which applies to all organizations and individuals in a society, and which refers to racism that has been in place for so long that people don’t realize they’re doing it, or which may even be well-intentioned (I’m remembering an interview with a Roma man who’d just graduated college, where one of the things he said he hoped for in the future was “that something as normal as someone graduating college will not be news”). This second kind is the one you’re speaking of; am I correct?
LOL. You’re probably right.
This will be the umpteenth time I’ve said this but I will start with it again. In general, I believe I don’t have that much to complain about. I own my own business for which I’m paid very well for my services. I’m educated, I live in a nice house, I don’t want for much. America has treated my pretty well, on the surface. I’m 46.
From the time I was 9 until 11 or so, one of the ways I earned extra money was at the local golf course. Mostly picking up balls outside the walls, and caddying when I could get it. The line where we would turn in our buckets was the Sambo line. I was called little darkie, sambo, & colored boy and other charming names by golfers. Ironically I always received extra tips from those groups.
I also worked with my best friends’ dad who was a handy man. We worked yards, built add-ons, tarred roofs, etc. in the areas around Detroit. I was in many a beautiful home, but never through the front door. You see that wasn’t acceptable in these places, they weren’t racist, but the neighbors, you know. You also wanted to be out of these neighborhoods before the sun set.
When I was 13 we moved to Oakland. I was called nigger by someone who threw an apple at my head.
When I was 15 I had a day off from school. I went to Bayfair Mall to play video games. Two cops showed up arrested my and the friend I was with and dropped us at the border to Oakland. We had done nothing more than play video games. Many years later I would later get pulled over repeatedly in front of my workplace or in my parking lot. I owned the company.
When I was 17 just before my 18th birthday I and my then girlfriend volunteered to work on the campaign of a guy running for mayor of Oakland. I was a Republican; I remained so until I exited the Army. I will give you three guess on the most common question I was asked by other volunteers, or really the white male ones.
When I was 19, my then girlfriend (white) unbeknownst to me used me as a decoy while she successfully shoplifted. She didn’t understand why I dumped her.
My Master Sargent sabotaged my schooling because I wouldn’t join the black military group he was part of. This shit works both ways.
When I was 23 a girl in Utah who’d never seen a black guy, before fucked me on her lunch break in the parking lot of the Burger King where she worked. It’s not all bad.
Countless white people have asked to touch my hair.
Countless white people have told me I speak well.
Countless white people have asked me where to find weed, coke, etc.
Whenever I’m out somewhere that’s dominated by old white men, I have to hear “how’s that hope changey thing’, or a suddenly loud conversation about welfare. This usually happens at my mom’s doctor’s office.
I don’t remember how many times I’ve been in the back of a police car, or even how many times I’ve been pulled over.
Here on a place where I love to hang out for intellectual stimulation, I’m constantly bombarded posters trying to demonstrate the inferiority of black people, their superb athletic skills or their criminology. I have to sit back and watch as the latest unarmed black dude goes through a trial to decide if he was a good enough people to deserve a modicum of human decency. I get to be lectured on why it’s obviously my fucked up attitude, my imagination or my general shifty niggerdom on why I go through this type of shit. Any I always have to read some white dude describe how it’s actually the niggers who are the racist usually within 5 posts.
I don’t hate white people because this is my life it’s all I know. But it’s also because hate requires an investment that would be better spent teaching my sons and daughter how to navigate the land of the “free”.
Thank you Stuffy.
Maybe it’s your umpteenth time, but for me (and surely others) this is the first time I’ve read such a perfect proof racism is alive and well right here on SDMB. You describe the lectures and demonstrations et cetera that people post clearly enough. Maybe the semi-clueless rest of us might might start to notice these things sometimes, and what you wrote can confirm it for us. For whatever it might be worth to you, that’s helpful.
This fits a pattern, things I consistently hear from people who weren’t born sitting on top of a pile of privilege, which are not that hard to listen for - different details depending on which privilege people do or don’t have, but the theme is constant. These personal statements are what comes up in my mind whenever some new situation arises and one of the possible explanations is racism (or sexism or any of the others).
Helping the rest of us notice the patterns is helpful, so, thank you.
Sorry, I think I lost most of a post earlier…
That is one kind, for sure. But it does come in many forms.
Stuff, thanks for the very insightful post!
I actually know what’s it’s like to be racially different, as I lived in Japan for 8 years. I didn’t face a whole lot of discrimination, and some of that was positive, but it does get fatiguing. I’m sure being black and getting pulled over and all the things you talked about would be tiring to say the least.
Thanks to everyone else who participated as well. I think you provided some answers that make a lot of sense!
My guess is the pervasiveness of it all.
I mean, slavery wasn’t really that long ago. My great-grandfather, who I personally knew, his parents were slaves. He made his way to California from Mississippi in the 20s to live near one of the race colonies in the Valley. When my brother asked him why he left the South my grandfather answered, “Because they were hanging people, boy.” The last public lynching in the the what, 60s? That’s within my parent’s lifetime.
People haven’t been outwardly racist to me, but I think it’s because I’m very light skinned (I’m mixed). I couldn’t pass for white, but if my hair’s short I instead get, “What are you?” (which is often said in a surprisingly angry tone. Like, "how dare I not be able to categorize you instantly.) But it’s still there in ways you don’t to realize until you think about it.
There was an instance in high school where they called in every Black student and told them to behave. Only the Black kids, regardless of whether they’ve ever been in trouble or not. It wasn’t until I was older before I realized how fucked up that was.
My younger brother was never a bad kid. The worst he did was skateboard in a public place with his white friends. One day he, my mother, and I were driving somewhere when we got on the topic of being brutalized by the police. My younger brother is very tall and a lot darker than I am. You can tell he’s part Black immediately. He started saying that they can’t do that, that they need to respect him, etc. We told him, without question, they will shoot him. They will shoot him and not even think twice. What does it say that you know that the police will kill you if you give them any opportunity?
My wife’s mother wasn’t too happy that her daughter was with a Black man. It didn’t matter that I’m a decorated veteran, going to school, or anything. My blackness is the forefront.
Hell, go on Reddit and see the comments. I’m not even talking about the numerous blatantly racist places either. Go into any thread that has anything to do with a Black person whatsoever. You’ll see.
But yeah, this shit is pervasive. It was not long ago you could get strung up on a tree, lit on fire, and cut into little pieces (not necessarily in that order) because you had the audacity to try to vote or protest a murder. Do you really think a Black Cliven Bundy could have existed with a large group pointing weapons at federal agents?
It’s entrenched. And it’s on the Dope.
To go along with Monstro’s post #6, he’s a two-minute interview with Booker Wright. He was a Black waiter in a white restaurant talking about how he does what he does.