# Destiny's Child - Soldier **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 28, 2005, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/destinys-child-soldier/287160 "2005-01-28T19:21:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![eman77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f04885/32.png) [@eman77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eman77)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2005, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/destinys-child-soldier/287160/21 "2005-01-29T18:38:09Z")
> [@archmichael](#): > > I thought the rappers sucked. Especially, that Krunk guy. I’ve got better flow than him, and I don’t rap. I disagree, the first rapper T.I. had a great flow going but I agree Lil Wayne did pretty poorly. ---
**Author:** ![archmichael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bb73d2/32.png) [@archmichael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/archmichael)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2005, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/destinys-child-soldier/287160/22 "2005-01-29T18:53:41Z")
> [@eman77](#): > > I disagree, the first rapper T.I. had a great flow going but I agree Lil Wayne did pretty poorly. Lil Wayne, that’s the one. Does he rap like that all the time? ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2005, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/destinys-child-soldier/287160/23 "2005-01-29T18:56:05Z")
> [@archmichael](#): > > Lil Wayne, that’s the one. Does he rap like that all the time? Pretty much. I’ve never found him to be very good. ---
**Author:** ![LibrarySpy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f9ae1b/32.png) [@LibrarySpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LibrarySpy)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2005, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/destinys-child-soldier/287160/24 "2005-01-29T19:00:45Z")
It’s sexist, it shows very little understanding of urban culture, it promotes violence, gender relations, and it sets some movement back 20 years (the peace movement? Race relations? Feminism? _Something_). But damn if I don’t turn up the radio when ever it comes on. _Better be street if he’s lookin’ at me…_ ---
**Author:** ![Zjestika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/8edcca/32.png) [@Zjestika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zjestika)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/destinys-child-soldier/287160/25 "2005-01-30T00:13:32Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > And Michelle, the third one, over both of them. I would like to take this opportunity to mention that I went to high school with her. That is all. ZJ ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/destinys-child-soldier/287160/26 "2005-01-30T00:20:34Z")
This is irrelevant unless you did her on prom night, in which case you may be my new god. ---
**Author:** ![Zjestika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/8edcca/32.png) [@Zjestika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zjestika)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/destinys-child-soldier/287160/27 "2005-01-30T05:16:10Z")
Oh, I know it’s irrelevant. I just had to say it. As far as prom night, well, hehhehheh, let’s just say… nope. ZJ ---
**Author:** ![Indygrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@Indygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indygrrl)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/destinys-child-soldier/287160/28 "2005-01-30T17:12:24Z")
I wouldn’t take this literally, as so many seem to be doing. A lot of artists take creative liberty with their songs. This is made for the thuggish fans who want to see Destiny’s Child have some street cred or something. Jay-Z used to be a thug, but now he has shown himself to be a gentleman. I don’t see any of these ladies going for anything less. And, they’ve done so many good, inspirational songs, this one is probably just a track that got thrown on there. Who knows? I’m guessing it’s not that deep. ---
**Author:** ![pizzabrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e9c0ed/32.png) [@pizzabrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pizzabrat)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/destinys-child-soldier/287160/29 "2005-01-30T17:27:06Z")
> [@Indygrrl](#): > > I wouldn’t take this literally, as so many seem to be doing. The danger is _other_ people taking it literally, especially the impressionable young female fans. Haven’t you heard (young black) girls demand that their men be “thugs” or “gangstas”? I hear it all the time, and with demand comes supply… ---
**Author:** ![Indygrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@Indygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indygrrl)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/destinys-child-soldier/287160/30 "2005-01-30T17:51:25Z")
> [@pizzabrat](#): > > The danger is _other_ people taking it literally, especially the impressionable young female fans. Haven’t you heard (young black) girls demand that their men be “thugs” or “gangstas”? I hear it all the time, and with demand comes supply… Yeah, you are right. Those girls are very impressionable. I come from metal. Metal bands say all kinds of crazy shit, and I have never known anyone who took it literally. I guess rap/hip hop is a whole different game and I shouldn’t pretend to have any insight into that mentality. We should get some metal for these young girls, do you think they’d like Black Sabbath? It’s pretty f’n gansta. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2005, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/destinys-child-soldier/287160/31 "2005-01-31T16:41:52Z")
> [@Indygrrl](#): > > Jay-Z used to be a thug, but now he has shown himself to be a gentleman. I don’t see any of these ladies going for anything less. When did he become a gentleman exactly? He still calls women bitches on his albums, and does many other things people hate. Like most other rappers, he only stopped doing illegal things when he got money. Even the rappers that act like thugs aren’t really doing bad things anymore. Just cause he dresses in a suit doesn’t mean he’s a gentleman. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2005, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/destinys-child-soldier/287160/32 "2005-01-31T17:32:04Z")
> [@Indygrrl](#): > > I come from metal. Metal bands say all kinds of crazy shit, and I have never known anyone who took it literally. Have you ever looked at the reader ads in the back of a metal magazine? Scary, scary stuff. But it’s only a few people out of the many fans. It’s hard to imagine that the audience for this song is any different. Maybe there are a few borderline people who’ll be swayed, but the folks who don’t agree will continue to disagree, and the folks who agree will continue to agree. ---
**Author:** ![Indygrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@Indygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indygrrl)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2005, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/destinys-child-soldier/287160/33 "2005-01-31T18:26:19Z")
> [@ultrafilter](#): > > Have you ever looked at the reader ads in the back of a metal magazine? Scary, scary stuff. But it’s only a few people out of the many fans. > > It’s hard to imagine that the audience for this song is any different. Maybe there are a few borderline people who’ll be swayed, but the folks who don’t agree will continue to disagree, and the folks who agree will continue to agree. I think the hip hop people might be more influenced than the metal people, but I don’t really know. Hip hop/rap is generally more negative. And it’s a style that more people want to emulate. Well, wait, I don’t know. Let’s say you emulate rap. You want “bling bling” and girls with fat bottoms dancing around, etc. Crime is glorified, guns are glorified. Metal is a community. Sure, everyone wears black and listens to music about satan, but generally a good group of people. Our one and only casualty was Dimebag Darrel, and that was a crazed fan. That could happen anywhere. Let’s say you emulate metal. That means you might wear black, smoke pot, drink alcohol, and sit around in your mom’s basement (teen metalheads). You wear black and flip people off a lot. You don’t collect guns as a general rule. Violence is absolutely not glorified. I’ve lost my point somewhere around here. Can someone help me find it? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2005, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/destinys-child-soldier/287160/34 "2005-01-31T18:34:59Z")
> [@Indygrrl](#): > > Let’s say you emulate rap. You want “bling bling” and girls with fat bottoms dancing around, etc. Crime is glorified, guns are glorified. That’s what the songs are about, not what people actually do. And to be completely fair, that’s what the songs of a particular genre are about. Find the most similar genre of metal–in this case, what appeals to teenagers–and you’ll find different stuff from what you have in mind. > [@](#): > > Metal is a community. Sure, everyone wears black and listens to music about satan, but generally a good group of people. Our one and only casualty was Dimebag Darrel, and that was a crazed fan. That could happen anywhere. You have heard of Euronymous and his whole scene, right? > [@](#): > > Let’s say you emulate metal. That means you might wear black, smoke pot, drink alcohol, and sit around in your mom’s basement (teen metalheads). You wear black and flip people off a lot. You don’t collect guns as a general rule. Violence is absolutely not glorified. Except for the black outfits, that probably describes the average teenage rap fan just as accurately. ---
**Author:** ![Indygrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@Indygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indygrrl)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2005, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/destinys-child-soldier/287160/35 "2005-01-31T20:33:31Z")
Ultrafilter, I think you know what I’m getting at. I’m not referring to Black Metal, that Norwegian stuff you’re talking about is so obscure, most American teens haven’t even heard of it. I’m referring to regular old Black Sabbath and the like. Metallica, Motorhead, etc., etc. No, the look is not the same. They’re completely different. Metal: [http://www.undercover.com.au/pics/motorhead.jpg](http://www.undercover.com.au/pics/motorhead.jpg) Hip hop:[http://www.famous-popular.com/50-cents.jpg](http://www.famous-popular.com/50-cents.jpg) If I had a son, I’d be like, “hey, check out Motorhead,” and I’d hope he wouldn’t turn around and want to dress like 50 cent. Really, there are pro’s and con’s all around, but I’m no fan of gang emulation, guns, violence against women, etc. I like a lot of hip hop, but I’m not going to be happy if my little brother wants to copy it. If it’s metal, I feel I have no worries. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2005, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/destinys-child-soldier/287160/36 "2005-01-31T20:40:50Z")
> [@Indygrrl](#): > > No, the look is not the same. They’re completely different. > > Metal: [Just Racing | Horse, Greyhound and Harness Racing News, Tips and Bets](http://www.undercover.com.au/pics/motorhead.jpg) > > Hip hop:[http://www.famous-popular.com/50-cents.jpg](http://www.famous-popular.com/50-cents.jpg) That’s what I said–they don’t dress the same, but by and large, the fans act the same. Maybe some of the attitudes are different, but by and large the average rap fan is not violent. ---
**Author:** ![Indygrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@Indygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indygrrl)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2005, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/destinys-child-soldier/287160/37 "2005-01-31T20:55:10Z")
I don’t know the average rap fan, but I do know that at least ten clubs in Indy refuse to play hip hop or rap because of past problems with violence. There have been shootings, beatings, and general mayhem in the Broad Ripple area of town where many bars are located. As far as I know, they have all barred most rap. However, they still have metal shows all the time. I have never heard of a gun being pulled, or a riot breaking out, or anything that would make the local news. The worst thing that happens is some doof gets knocked down in the pit, and per pit protocol, everyone picks him back up. I’m not trying to sound biased, because I do like hip hop, but there’s a reason hip hop nights have been shut down all over town and metal has not. We have a Punk Rock Night every Saturday that has been going on three years, and never an incident that would warrant closing it down. Of course, that’s anecdotal. But, here’s one more anecdote. The time I did go with some black friends to a rap club, I got a beer poured on my head for “looking tired” while sitting in the snack area. I then got thrown out of the club, and the bouncer and cops would not let me find my friends to tell them I was outside. I waited for a very long time out there, and all the while I was being shouted at by cars driving by full of the “hip hop patrons.” I was told they were going to “shoot me down like a dog in the street.” It didn’t leave a good impression and I will never go back, and as a matter of fact neither will my friends I went with. They were appalled at how I was treated. So, I do think a lot more rap fans emulate what they hear and see from their idols. It’s a much different game than metal, and unless I were to experience otherwise, I don’t think my opinion on that will change anytime soon. ---
**Author:** ![Indygrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@Indygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indygrrl)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2005, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/destinys-child-soldier/287160/38 "2005-01-31T21:04:19Z")
Sorry to get so far off topic. I guess I actually don’t know if Destiny’s Child’s lyrics are meant to be taken literally. I still think they don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2005, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/destinys-child-soldier/287160/39 "2005-01-31T21:41:49Z")
\*\*Indygrrl. \*\* There’s a different social dynamic at work with hardcore hip-hop fans as well as hardcore jazz aficanados as well as hardcore country lovers: meaning hip-hop fans are known to front 'tude, through blows and scatter. Sorry you had to go through that – reading between the lines it seems you went apeshit after you got the beer poured on you and I don’t blame you. I know too many brothers who think they’re being cute spraying beer on hapless females and that’s about as tired as they claimed you were. ---
**Author:** ![Indygrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@Indygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indygrrl)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2005, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/destinys-child-soldier/287160/40 "2005-01-31T22:27:10Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > \*\*Indygrrl. \*\* There’s a different social dynamic at work with hardcore hip-hop fans as well as hardcore jazz aficanados as well as hardcore country lovers: meaning hip-hop fans are known to front 'tude, through blows and scatter. Sorry you had to go through that – reading between the lines it seems you went apeshit after you got the beer poured on you and I don’t blame you. I know too many brothers who think they’re being cute spraying beer on hapless females and that’s about as tired as they claimed you were. I agree. Except for one point. I did not go apeshit when I got the beer poured on me. I was seated, and yeah, my eyelids were drooping (so I was literally tired, not tired-lookin’ 😃 ). This guy walked past, saw that, then poured one of those huge cups of beer completely over my head. He didn’t spray it or drizzle it, or flick me with it. He poured the entire cup. I was kinda drunk (bachelorette party for my friend) and I was pretty shocked, especially since it had woken me from a slight nap and it was like 2:30 a.m. My friends were like, “Go tell the bouncer, go tell the bouncer,” but I was still hesitant because the club atmosphere was fairly intimidating to me. But I did go up to the bouncer, who could see I was soaked, and told him what happened. I told him I knew which guy it was so he could throw him out (protocol where I hang out). He looked at the cop, the cop looked at him, and they told me I needed to leave. My friends were still in the snack bar. So, I didn’t go up there screaming and yelling and raising a chaos, just so ya know. I am guilty of apeshit quite a bit, but this was one time when I wasn’t so I had to speak up. 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/destinys-child-soldier/287160.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/destinys-child-soldier/287160.md?page=3)